GT500 vs Saleen vs Roush?
Discussion
Was wondering whether anyone had actually compared the various 'hot' Mustangs and what the verdict was?
At the moment the GT500 is silly money in the UK (but this will fade in time as is always the case with 'rare' (read mass production) limited edition US cars), where as both Roush and Saleens can be had for 'fair' money. This would seem to rule the GT500 out in terms of value for money but perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions here.
Any educated views on the options and where the money is best spent - from not driving them, I would guess the performance is quite similar? (would this be correct?).
At the moment the GT500 is silly money in the UK (but this will fade in time as is always the case with 'rare' (read mass production) limited edition US cars), where as both Roush and Saleens can be had for 'fair' money. This would seem to rule the GT500 out in terms of value for money but perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions here.
Any educated views on the options and where the money is best spent - from not driving them, I would guess the performance is quite similar? (would this be correct?).
i looked into getting the GT500 about a year before they came into production, I couldnt even get my name on any reserve lists for one! i then was introduced to the Saleen and i now have an '06 S281 supercharged, pound for pound Saleen wins everytime with higher spec interior,bodykit,dash,suspension,everything really! although the GT500 is given with almost 500bhp the new '07 supercharged Saleen is given with 465bhp add into that the saleen engine is approx 200lbs lighter than the Shelby,performance wise everything points to the Saleen along with better mpg aswel, as for Roush, had a look but didnt take my fancy plus the top modelis only given at 415bhp and to me the interior they offer isnt as nice
Edited by steve.c on Monday 1st January 19:55
I did it all myself, went over to Florida in Feb of '06 test drove both (non and supercharged models) a good 30mins test drive in the non supercharged model aswel to get a good feel for the car and approx 10-15miles in the supercharged model (it was a sale car not a demo) dealership were fantastic,arranged for the car to be taken to jacksonville port,all the shipping was real easy to arrange by myself along with all the required paperwork, it was 100% less daunting that i imagined! and i saved a tidy sum over buying through an importer, have you looked on autotrader? there are a few used and new '05 saleens on there both supercharged and non
steve.c said:
I did it all myself, went over to Florida in Feb of '06 test drove both (non and supercharged models) a good 30mins test drive in the non supercharged model aswel to get a good feel for the car and approx 10-15miles in the supercharged model (it was a sale car not a demo) dealership were fantastic,arranged for the car to be taken to jacksonville port,all the shipping was real easy to arrange by myself along with all the required paperwork, it was 100% less daunting that i imagined! and i saved a tidy sum over buying through an importer, have you looked on autotrader? there are a few used and new '05 saleens on there both supercharged and non
I did notice a few on Autotrader but not an Extreme
I assume you bought direct from a Saleen dealer? Also, did you ship using roll-on-roll-off or did you use a seperate container? Do you recall the cost of the shipping?
ahh yes the extreme! as far as iknow there are no extremes over here, even rare in the states as i believe they only build minimum no's per year at at approx $80k its a lot of money,yes i ordered mine through a Saleen dealer, yep mine came over RORO and it was approx £500 (exchange rate in my favour and yours now if you import!) a container is approx £3k i think
anything else you want to know just ask, my email/msn is mustang_s281sc@hotmail.co.uk
anything else you want to know just ask, my email/msn is mustang_s281sc@hotmail.co.uk
The general verdict on the GT500 is it's fat and overweight weighing a hefty 470lbs over and above a Mustang GT. Nearly all that extra weight is in the nose where the iron engine resides. The GT500 is really designed for those who want to increase the power substantially and use it for drag racing (some are already claiming 700bhp) but the 500bhp only overcomes the weight so the performance increase is not devastating and a Corvette C6 is still faster weighing substantially less and deploying it's 400bhp to greater effect.
As many have found, the better and lighter route is to blow and modify a Mustang GT which has the all-alloy 4.6 engine. You'll note that none of the aftermarket tuners have transplanted the Lightning's iron engine. The all-alloy 4.6 engine means you also don't get a rusty sludge in your coolant. The only things you'll miss are the 6 speed manual box on the GT500 and the bigger front discs (necessary to stop the extra weight to be honest). I'm not saying the GT500 isn't a good car that will be very satisfying to own but my money would be on the Saleens which are made in far lesser numbers than the over-hyped 9000 cars a year "limited edition" GT500. I think as Ford release more and more variants on the Mustang theme and bring out the new 5.0 Hurricane engine, the GT500 will become a bit of a white elephant.
As many have found, the better and lighter route is to blow and modify a Mustang GT which has the all-alloy 4.6 engine. You'll note that none of the aftermarket tuners have transplanted the Lightning's iron engine. The all-alloy 4.6 engine means you also don't get a rusty sludge in your coolant. The only things you'll miss are the 6 speed manual box on the GT500 and the bigger front discs (necessary to stop the extra weight to be honest). I'm not saying the GT500 isn't a good car that will be very satisfying to own but my money would be on the Saleens which are made in far lesser numbers than the over-hyped 9000 cars a year "limited edition" GT500. I think as Ford release more and more variants on the Mustang theme and bring out the new 5.0 Hurricane engine, the GT500 will become a bit of a white elephant.
Have a look at this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq06eUNlyzI
As lu51fer said, it's better to tune a GT than go for the GT500. The Shelby is more about vanity/rarity than being a 'better' car - IMHO
The great thing about the Mustang is that there's just SOOOOO much you can do to it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq06eUNlyzI
As lu51fer said, it's better to tune a GT than go for the GT500. The Shelby is more about vanity/rarity than being a 'better' car - IMHO
The great thing about the Mustang is that there's just SOOOOO much you can do to it.
with the Rousch you find comes in different stages (4 of) the basic model has a few bolt on bits of exterior trim and any interior upgrades are options,the closer to the top model they sell (still only 415bhp) you do get some interior upgrades as standard but any others are again options, as i said in a previous post I looked over them while i was in Florida but wasn't for me, i know their top model is approx £5k cheaper than the equivalent Saleen model but at the end of the day its individual choice i guess, but money wise the extra for the Saleen is money wel spent in my opinion
p.s where are you based? if not too far i can bring mine for you to have a look over,im nr Bath
p.s where are you based? if not too far i can bring mine for you to have a look over,im nr Bath
stig said:
Have a look at this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq06eUNlyzI
As lu51fer said, it's better to tune a GT than go for the GT500. The Shelby is more about vanity/rarity than being a 'better' car - IMHO
The great thing about the Mustang is that there's just SOOOOO much you can do to it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq06eUNlyzI
As lu51fer said, it's better to tune a GT than go for the GT500. The Shelby is more about vanity/rarity than being a 'better' car - IMHO
The great thing about the Mustang is that there's just SOOOOO much you can do to it.
shame Mr Clarkson got his facts wrong for that vid, the Shelby has the 5.4 engine from the lightening truck
Love my Roush. I've not been able to compare it with any others yet, but from what I understand, the 415bhp is all pretty much low-down the range compared to some of the other 'charged 'Stangs.
As has been said by others, what-ever you buy is pretty much a starting point. Mine had the 'charger and engine mapping. I've since added the lowered springs and will be fitting some Tokico struts as the next upgrade.
It's probably worth giving these guys a call.....
www.atlanticsportscars.com/index.html
James posts on here as AtlanticVipers. I know that they've supplied Roush and Saleens, so should be able to give you good advice.
As has been said by others, what-ever you buy is pretty much a starting point. Mine had the 'charger and engine mapping. I've since added the lowered springs and will be fitting some Tokico struts as the next upgrade.
It's probably worth giving these guys a call.....
www.atlanticsportscars.com/index.html
James posts on here as AtlanticVipers. I know that they've supplied Roush and Saleens, so should be able to give you good advice.
The Roush Mustang they sold here was the 420RE and in the "first leg" of EVO's Performance Car Of The Year, it came a creditable 2nd behind the M3 CS and ahead of the 350Z so it handles just fine. Interestingly, the Corvette C6 languished in 10th place. That car has all the suspension mods and the Roushcharger. For my money, at £40k, it was too expensive when a Monaro VXR500 costs £36k and which with a free choice right now, I'd take, because modifying my Mustang came to just under £30k even using a 2000 mile used car as a base. However, that included the 20" wheels and a grand's worth of tyres.
The question of cost is crucial. At the time I was looking for mine, the dollar was a lot stronger and Atlantic were selling for around £27k for a top end fully-specced Mustang Premium GT but with the dollar sinking faster than Barbara Windsor's chest, the cost of a new car has reduced significantly. My research into superchargers led me to rely upon a choice of two UK based supercharger suppliers/fitters - Roush and Vortech. The top Vortech producing 462hp cost £4500 fitted by the agent in London whereas Roush wanted over £5k for the Roushcharger fitted. If fitting and warranties don't bother you, you can import and fit for a lot less but these kits involve bigger fuel pumps and injectors and a retune that is provided so you need to know how to do it.
The rest of the mods in the suspension department are again less as the dollar rate has dropped but realistically if you're going the whole hog, you need to get a shopping list and use a company like Moving Parts to ship a single batch of items to the UK a lot cheaper than paying for individual shipping costs. You still have to pay your 3.5% import duty and 17.5% VAT this end of course and then fit the stuff yourself so value for money has to be played against your own manual dexterity and inconvenience of doing it yourself. You'll also find that a lot of the US suppliers are parochial little twits when it comes to supplying outside the US and many will quibble about your credit card (thanks to a million scammers out there) and half won't be arsed to respond. Some are great though but you need someone who won't quote you silly shipping prices.
Having said that, I found that the Roush parts were very competitive on price with importing your own stuff and as EVO showed, a good choice in the handling department. However, all stock Mustang GTs are tuned for US roads and are way too soft and that's why I bought Tokico adjustables (before I read the EVO Roush report). My main gripe with Roush was their fitting charges which to someone as mean as me were high when I can do it myself but probably average for that sort of thing.
At the end of the day, it comes down to personal preferences. A Mustang GT can be modified as little or as much as you like and comes apart like Lego so most people can do the mods easily. There are so many options that it's hard to find any two Mustangs the same. On the supercharger front, there are basically two types - the centrifugals like the Vortech which produce more power at the top end but less torque low down and the screw type wich produce less power but loads more torque at the bottom end. There are the expensive twin screw types which provide the best of both worlds I suppose but cost more. In retrospect, I'd probably go for a top end twin screw now as you have to work the Vortech (but believe me, it's all relative to a runaway roller coaster experience).
For me, some of the more extreme Roush variants look a bit too "Essex" for my eyes, too much unsubtle bodykit. I fell in love with the Saleen bodykit when I was in the US last year. Great design but Saleens were not freely available as they are now. If you're thinking of importing anyway, you should also look at the Steeda Screaming Q which got a fantastic write-up in one of the American mags and wasn't much slower than a blown Saleen round the track and it was cheap given the amount of bits you got with it and excellent value. However, they're down Texas way if you're interested in them and I think they come in yellow or red. Steeda is a well-respected tuner and racer and aftermarket supplier and you'd almost certainly have the only one in the UK.
The question of cost is crucial. At the time I was looking for mine, the dollar was a lot stronger and Atlantic were selling for around £27k for a top end fully-specced Mustang Premium GT but with the dollar sinking faster than Barbara Windsor's chest, the cost of a new car has reduced significantly. My research into superchargers led me to rely upon a choice of two UK based supercharger suppliers/fitters - Roush and Vortech. The top Vortech producing 462hp cost £4500 fitted by the agent in London whereas Roush wanted over £5k for the Roushcharger fitted. If fitting and warranties don't bother you, you can import and fit for a lot less but these kits involve bigger fuel pumps and injectors and a retune that is provided so you need to know how to do it.
The rest of the mods in the suspension department are again less as the dollar rate has dropped but realistically if you're going the whole hog, you need to get a shopping list and use a company like Moving Parts to ship a single batch of items to the UK a lot cheaper than paying for individual shipping costs. You still have to pay your 3.5% import duty and 17.5% VAT this end of course and then fit the stuff yourself so value for money has to be played against your own manual dexterity and inconvenience of doing it yourself. You'll also find that a lot of the US suppliers are parochial little twits when it comes to supplying outside the US and many will quibble about your credit card (thanks to a million scammers out there) and half won't be arsed to respond. Some are great though but you need someone who won't quote you silly shipping prices.
Having said that, I found that the Roush parts were very competitive on price with importing your own stuff and as EVO showed, a good choice in the handling department. However, all stock Mustang GTs are tuned for US roads and are way too soft and that's why I bought Tokico adjustables (before I read the EVO Roush report). My main gripe with Roush was their fitting charges which to someone as mean as me were high when I can do it myself but probably average for that sort of thing.
At the end of the day, it comes down to personal preferences. A Mustang GT can be modified as little or as much as you like and comes apart like Lego so most people can do the mods easily. There are so many options that it's hard to find any two Mustangs the same. On the supercharger front, there are basically two types - the centrifugals like the Vortech which produce more power at the top end but less torque low down and the screw type wich produce less power but loads more torque at the bottom end. There are the expensive twin screw types which provide the best of both worlds I suppose but cost more. In retrospect, I'd probably go for a top end twin screw now as you have to work the Vortech (but believe me, it's all relative to a runaway roller coaster experience).
For me, some of the more extreme Roush variants look a bit too "Essex" for my eyes, too much unsubtle bodykit. I fell in love with the Saleen bodykit when I was in the US last year. Great design but Saleens were not freely available as they are now. If you're thinking of importing anyway, you should also look at the Steeda Screaming Q which got a fantastic write-up in one of the American mags and wasn't much slower than a blown Saleen round the track and it was cheap given the amount of bits you got with it and excellent value. However, they're down Texas way if you're interested in them and I think they come in yellow or red. Steeda is a well-respected tuner and racer and aftermarket supplier and you'd almost certainly have the only one in the UK.
steve.c said:
p.s where are you based? if not too far i can bring mine for you to have a look over,im nr Bath
Hi Steve,
I'm near J4 of the M3.
Really appreciate all the info from everyone.
LU51fer, I haven't heard of Steeda but when I lived in North America, the DECH Mustangs were making good progress but I believe DECH has gone out of business?
I would like something semi-unique but reliability and engineering support would also be important.
I have spoken with the Roush guys about another car and they were very helpful and seemed like a decent bunch; however, the Saleen has always had a lure based on the understated nature of their bodykit (although I really don't like the detail on the interior headrests... looks like a leftover from an S&M session
) I'll do a little bit of digging around next week and see who has what for sale and what cars are actually on the ground.
Best regards to everyone and thanks for your help up to this point!
Simon
nomis said:
PS - does it make me a heathen to lust after the modern Eleanor? 
Sadly, this has been done to death and back again and now ranks alongside the General Lee and Knight Rider for a cliche but whatever turns you on. Here's the Steeda link for you to drool over:
www.steeda.com/new_vehicles/
LuS1fer said:
Sadly, this has been done to death and back again and now ranks alongside the General Lee and Knight Rider for a cliche but whatever turns you on. Here's the Steeda link for you to drool over:
www.steeda.com/new_vehicles/
www.steeda.com/new_vehicles/
True it is rather pop-culture cliche; however, the Steeda Mustangs also look a little 'Fast n' Furious'. You mentioned a 281 Extreme in a previous post, has anyone brought one to the UK?
nomis said:
LuS1fer said:
Sadly, this has been done to death and back again and now ranks alongside the General Lee and Knight Rider for a cliche but whatever turns you on. Here's the Steeda link for you to drool over:
www.steeda.com/new_vehicles/
www.steeda.com/new_vehicles/
True it is rather pop-culture cliche; however, the Steeda Mustangs also look a little 'Fast n' Furious' so equally not for me. As a side note, you mentioned a 281 Extreme in a previous post, has anyone brought one to the UK?
nomis said:
nomis said:
LuS1fer said:
Sadly, this has been done to death and back again and now ranks alongside the General Lee and Knight Rider for a cliche but whatever turns you on. Here's the Steeda link for you to drool over:
www.steeda.com/new_vehicles/
www.steeda.com/new_vehicles/
True it is rather pop-culture cliche; however, the Steeda Mustangs also look a little 'Fast n' Furious' so equally not for me. As a side note, you mentioned a 281 Extreme in a previous post, has anyone brought one to the UK?
Yes. Try www.mocgb.net/forums/index.php. There are a number of Saleens about and I'm sure one of them is an Extreme. It may even be on this forum...it's easy to get confused. There are a lot of new Mustang owners about and more and more seem to be supercharged and modified. I'd look it up myself but I'm working....honest!
swerni said:
I work at Sun, just down the Road. If you want to come and have a look at what you can do to a stock Stang then let me know.
Steve
Steve
Hi Steve, thank you for that offer. If you have some spare time I wouldn't mind taking you up on that.
Or, if you guys are getting together in the near future (for a Mustang pub lunch, etc), I'm happy to tag along if don't mind? I could bring another V8 for you to take a look at - an no, it won't get sawdust on your cars, or give them wood worm
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