Superchargers - hmmmmm....... nice :)
Discussion
Well, despite telling myself that I wouldn't want to supercharge the Mustang, seeing Clarkson's videos on YouTube yesterday has made me do a U-turn 
Makes the 'stang sound like a jet! 
There's a fair amount of aftermarket 'chargers available and was wondering what your opinions were of them? I see Ford Racing have just released the GT500 supercharger (and I'm probably going FRPP for the handling kit and axhausts) which I quite fancy.
Your thoughts gents (especially Lu51fer )
Makes the 'stang sound like a jet! There's a fair amount of aftermarket 'chargers available and was wondering what your opinions were of them? I see Ford Racing have just released the GT500 supercharger (and I'm probably going FRPP for the handling kit and axhausts) which I quite fancy.
Your thoughts gents (especially Lu51fer
)I've got a Roush, and I love it. The whine when it kicks in is addictive, so much so that I'm only getting 12 mpg (US) at the moment!!!
Can't speak for any of the other types, as this is the first one I've owned, and that only for 4 weeks; I think you'll find opinion is divided between the low-down stomp of the Roush roots-style and the high-end kick of the Vortec.
Lu51fer will have a much more considered take on the whole 'charger issue, as I think he did a lot more research before jumping in than I did (saw it; had to have it.)
Can't speak for any of the other types, as this is the first one I've owned, and that only for 4 weeks; I think you'll find opinion is divided between the low-down stomp of the Roush roots-style and the high-end kick of the Vortec.
Lu51fer will have a much more considered take on the whole 'charger issue, as I think he did a lot more research before jumping in than I did (saw it; had to have it.)
I'm no expert but 3 basic types I believe - centrifugal (Vortech, Procharger), Single screw (screw turns and mechanically pushes air into the intake) and twin screw (as single screw but compresses as well). They tend to be in that order in terms of expense because the centrifugals are basically universal pumps that can be mounted anywhere and ducted into the intake. The others have to be fitted on top of the engine.
In essence ,and this is reducing it to basics, the centrifugals are like a turbo on a stick - stock Mustang at the bottom but mental at the top end where all the power is produced. The Vortech is very quiet so you won';t hear it. So it builds and flies so to speak.
The others tend to pump constantly and so may be less economical but they boost the torque at the bottom end so the driving experience is completely different. Whereas with a centrifugal, you may have to work the gears, you're going to get loads more torque at the bottom with a screw type charger which will give you more wheelspin, a livelier rear end but usually less power at the top end unless you start increasing the pressure with underdrive pulleys.
Having researched it, I went for the "headline figure" of the 462hp Vortech because the Roushcharger at 415hp seemed a bit limp next to it. In retrospect, I think I would have gone for a good twin screw system like the Kenne-Bell or similar because it gives the power and the torque and I like a lot of torque. The downside of that is that your clutch may not last as long and there will probably be greater stress on the drivetrain. The Vortech peaks at 370lb/ft or thereabouts so it's worth looking at the figures. Another option is STS Turbos who are doing good things in the US at the moment and offer similar kits. Worth looking at their website as they show actual power graphs which you won't find on most supercharger sites.
My choice was dictated by there being a Vortech dealer in Edgware who would know what to do if it malfunctioned. the only other choice with UK support was the Roushcharger which doesn't look very nice under the bonnet and was down on power. The other thing about UK support and having it fitted professionally, is that when you come to sell it, you're far more likely to find a buyer than an unsupported application. But that's just my view and so have aread round the subject because the choice is not straightforward and inevitably comes down to what you want to spend.
For me, the Vortech was £600 cheaper than the Roush (even in the polished intercooled high output version), looked way better, produced more power and the saving allowed me to buy suspension and springs and so forth.
In essence ,and this is reducing it to basics, the centrifugals are like a turbo on a stick - stock Mustang at the bottom but mental at the top end where all the power is produced. The Vortech is very quiet so you won';t hear it. So it builds and flies so to speak.
The others tend to pump constantly and so may be less economical but they boost the torque at the bottom end so the driving experience is completely different. Whereas with a centrifugal, you may have to work the gears, you're going to get loads more torque at the bottom with a screw type charger which will give you more wheelspin, a livelier rear end but usually less power at the top end unless you start increasing the pressure with underdrive pulleys.
Having researched it, I went for the "headline figure" of the 462hp Vortech because the Roushcharger at 415hp seemed a bit limp next to it. In retrospect, I think I would have gone for a good twin screw system like the Kenne-Bell or similar because it gives the power and the torque and I like a lot of torque. The downside of that is that your clutch may not last as long and there will probably be greater stress on the drivetrain. The Vortech peaks at 370lb/ft or thereabouts so it's worth looking at the figures. Another option is STS Turbos who are doing good things in the US at the moment and offer similar kits. Worth looking at their website as they show actual power graphs which you won't find on most supercharger sites.
My choice was dictated by there being a Vortech dealer in Edgware who would know what to do if it malfunctioned. the only other choice with UK support was the Roushcharger which doesn't look very nice under the bonnet and was down on power. The other thing about UK support and having it fitted professionally, is that when you come to sell it, you're far more likely to find a buyer than an unsupported application. But that's just my view and so have aread round the subject because the choice is not straightforward and inevitably comes down to what you want to spend.
For me, the Vortech was £600 cheaper than the Roush (even in the polished intercooled high output version), looked way better, produced more power and the saving allowed me to buy suspension and springs and so forth.
Thanks chap - that confirms alot of what I'd thought.
I had a Weiand 177 twin-screw 'roots' style blower on my GTR and the delivery was absolutely linear. I'd not considered a centrifugal charger in the past, but your point about the clutch longevity is a very valid one! That said, I'm a bit fan of tail out tomfoolery and torque is a huge help in that respect. V8s, as you know, aren't that keen on revving without a fair amount of internal lightening, so maybe the twin screws are a better bet for me?
Again, UK backup is also important (though I'm used to doing the work myself) so from that perspective, Roush/Vortech are pretty well supported.
I was quite keen on staying all FRPP (handling pack, exhausts etc.), but I suppose I could do the same with the equivalent Roush kit. I believe the exhausts are the same anyway as they're sourced from Borla?
Incidently - what mods have you done to the air intake? I assume that you've replaced the OE system with a cold-air setup?
I had a Weiand 177 twin-screw 'roots' style blower on my GTR and the delivery was absolutely linear. I'd not considered a centrifugal charger in the past, but your point about the clutch longevity is a very valid one! That said, I'm a bit fan of tail out tomfoolery and torque is a huge help in that respect. V8s, as you know, aren't that keen on revving without a fair amount of internal lightening, so maybe the twin screws are a better bet for me?
Again, UK backup is also important (though I'm used to doing the work myself) so from that perspective, Roush/Vortech are pretty well supported.
I was quite keen on staying all FRPP (handling pack, exhausts etc.), but I suppose I could do the same with the equivalent Roush kit. I believe the exhausts are the same anyway as they're sourced from Borla?
Incidently - what mods have you done to the air intake? I assume that you've replaced the OE system with a cold-air setup?
stig said:
I had a Weiand 177 twin-screw 'roots' style blower on my GTR and the delivery was absolutely linear. I'd not considered a centrifugal charger in the past, but your point about the clutch longevity is a very valid one! That said, I'm a big fan of tail out tomfoolery and torque is a huge help in that respect. V8s, as you know, aren't that keen on revving without a fair amount of internal lightening, so maybe the twin screws are a better bet for me?
The Vortech isn't exactly deficient for tail-out tomfoolery but I prefer a fast car that goes round corners and doesn't develop a sudden urge to go sideways when you plant your right foot. The 3v ustang motor is a keen revver actually and will spin to the redline without any problem - not in the Honda VTEC league but not bad. I bought a SPEC clutch and flywheel which I'll fit as and when. I bought the steel flywheel which is annoying as I think the billet one allows the engine to spin far more quickly. As I've said, the choice for me was more budget than anything else. I'd have a twin screw given the choice but I'm not sure I like the loud whining.
Here's the Vortech in action smoking the skins:
www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=106967
stig said:
I was quite keen on staying all FRPP (handling pack, exhausts etc.), but I suppose I could do the same with the equivalent Roush kit. I believe the exhausts are the same anyway as they're sourced from Borla?
An open secret and the only visible difference is the BORLA or FRPP logo but still the Borlas are more expensive. They may use a cheaper grade stainless but I don't know....
stig said:
Incidently - what mods have you done to the air intake? I assume that you've replaced the OE system with a cold-air setup?
All these superchargers come with an intake kit as part of the kit. Here's the Vortech one on mine (before and after):
www.cardomain.com/ride/2177534/2
Edited by LuS1fer on Friday 15th December 12:12
Edited by LuS1fer on Friday 15th December 12:13
Well if yours is a 2007, make sure you get the supplemental kit as the 2007's are different.
http://store.roushperformance.com/det
It also suggests here that you have to ship the PCM back to Roush for recalibration.
www.moddedmustangs.com/roushcharger-its-50-state-legal-and-available.html
and it's still only 415hp.
This is one of the newest, the Magnacharger which gives 425hp:
www.stangnet.com/Store/Mustang-Power-Adders_2/MAGNAC-01-12-65-011_22.html
I'm not certain but I think the Ford Gt uses the Whipple supercharger which uis the top line jobby producing either 415hp or a stonking 475hp with massive torque:
www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1208
http://store.roushperformance.com/det
It also suggests here that you have to ship the PCM back to Roush for recalibration.
www.moddedmustangs.com/roushcharger-its-50-state-legal-and-available.html
and it's still only 415hp.
This is one of the newest, the Magnacharger which gives 425hp:
www.stangnet.com/Store/Mustang-Power-Adders_2/MAGNAC-01-12-65-011_22.html
I'm not certain but I think the Ford Gt uses the Whipple supercharger which uis the top line jobby producing either 415hp or a stonking 475hp with massive torque:
www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1208
Edited by LuS1fer on Friday 15th December 14:46
LuS1fer said:
Well if yours is a 2007, make sure you get the supplemental kit as the 2007's are different.
http://store.roushperformance.com/det
It also suggests here that you have to ship the PCM back to Roush for recalibration.
www.moddedmustangs.com/roushcharger-its-50-state-legal-and-available.html
and it's still only 415hp.
This is one of the newest, the Magnacharger which gives 425hp:
www.stangnet.com/Store/Mustang-Power-Adders_2/MAGNAC-01-12-65-011_22.html
I'm not certain but I think the Ford Gt uses the Whipple supercharger which uis the top line jobby producing either 415hp or a stonking 475hp with massive torque:
www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1208
http://store.roushperformance.com/det
It also suggests here that you have to ship the PCM back to Roush for recalibration.
www.moddedmustangs.com/roushcharger-its-50-state-legal-and-available.html
and it's still only 415hp.
This is one of the newest, the Magnacharger which gives 425hp:
www.stangnet.com/Store/Mustang-Power-Adders_2/MAGNAC-01-12-65-011_22.html
I'm not certain but I think the Ford Gt uses the Whipple supercharger which uis the top line jobby producing either 415hp or a stonking 475hp with massive torque:
www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1208
Edited by LuS1fer on Friday 15th December 14:46
Yup - I knew about the supplemental kit, as the coolant pipes are a little different on the '07s.
The more I read, the less certain I am which way to go!
The Ford Racing Supercharger (a Whipple), is available for the Mustang GT as an HO version - good for 500hp they reckon. Has an integral cooler IIRC. Whilst I could install it, this is one area I'd definitely like some warranty on, especially as the tune is as important as the install. So unless I can find someone in the UK that will do it, I'll probably go Roush (or Vortech
). www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9765
That said, I'm not after 'absolute' power - been there, done that - more trouble than it was worth. I'd be happy with 350+ RWHP to be honest which is ample for the road.
Edited by stig on Friday 15th December 14:57
stig said:
LuS1fer said:
Well if yours is a 2007, make sure you get the supplemental kit as the 2007's are different.
http://store.roushperformance.com/det
It also suggests here that you have to ship the PCM back to Roush for recalibration.
www.moddedmustangs.com/roushcharger-its-50-state-legal-and-available.html
and it's still only 415hp.
This is one of the newest, the Magnacharger which gives 425hp:
www.stangnet.com/Store/Mustang-Power-Adders_2/MAGNAC-01-12-65-011_22.html
I'm not certain but I think the Ford Gt uses the Whipple supercharger which uis the top line jobby producing either 415hp or a stonking 475hp with massive torque:
www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1208
http://store.roushperformance.com/det
It also suggests here that you have to ship the PCM back to Roush for recalibration.
www.moddedmustangs.com/roushcharger-its-50-state-legal-and-available.html
and it's still only 415hp.
This is one of the newest, the Magnacharger which gives 425hp:
www.stangnet.com/Store/Mustang-Power-Adders_2/MAGNAC-01-12-65-011_22.html
I'm not certain but I think the Ford Gt uses the Whipple supercharger which uis the top line jobby producing either 415hp or a stonking 475hp with massive torque:
www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1208
Edited by LuS1fer on Friday 15th December 14:46
Yup - I knew about the supplemental kit, as the coolant pipes are a little different on the '07s.
The more I read, the less certain I am which way to go!
The Ford Racing Supercharger (a Whipple), is available for the Mustang GT as an HO version - good for 500hp they reckon. Has an integral cooler IIRC. Whilst I could install it, this is one area I'd definitely like some warranty on, especially as the tune is as important as the install. So unless I can find someone in the UK that will do it, I'll probably go Roush (or Vortech
). www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=9765
That said, I'm not after 'absolute' power - been there, done that - more trouble than it was worth. I'd be happy with 350+ RWHP to be honest which is ample for the road.
Edited by stig on Friday 15th December 14:57
I have an idea if you're serious. Roush UK currently have their 420RE up for sale. Ring them and ask if you could have a short drive to see if it's what you want from it on the basis it could mean a sale of a supercharger for them. If so, it's £5000 in their pockets unless you're importing one yourself or they've dropped their prices due to the dollar rate. When I was liaising with them, they were extremely helpful and sent photos of the installation etc and were very keen to help out.
as for 350hp being enouugh for the road, it always seems that way but after 6 months, you always start wishing you had more especially in this age of 500hp cars at every turn.
LuS1fer said:
I have an idea if you're serious. Roush UK currently have their 420RE up for sale. Ring them and ask if you could have a short drive to see if it's what you want from it on the basis it could mean a sale of a supercharger for them. If so, it's £5000 in their pockets unless you're importing one yourself or they've dropped their prices due to the dollar rate. When I was liaising with them, they were extremely helpful and sent photos of the installation etc and were very keen to help out.
as for 350hp being enouugh for the road, it always seems that way but after 6 months, you always start wishing you had more especially in this age of 500hp cars at every turn.
As it happens, the guys who are sourcing my car are selling the Roush demo
I'm due to pay them a visit anyway, so as you say, it's probably best to try before making a decision. As for the output, I take your point, but my last two 'toy' cars made 630hp and 400hp respectively - so I know what I'll be happy with for the purpose I've set out for the Mustang
Of course, any more is a bonus. It's nice to be able to tune incrementally in this regard
Lu51fer - have you seen the Magnacharger Roots Hybrid charger (3 lobe design with 60 degree helical twist - like a screw type blower)? If the claims are to be believed, it's quite impressive.
http://magnacharger.com/sc-mustang.ht
http://magnacharger.com/sc-mustang.ht
Edited by stig on Monday 18th December 12:12
Posted this on another thread, but though it relevant here too:
Keep going round the houses with supercharger choice! It breaks down into a number of pros and cons - but there doesn't seem to be a 'wrong' choice. The way I see it:
Vortech/Paxton - centrifugal with gobloads of power (462hp), but take a while to spin up so maybe lacking a little in immediate 'shove in the back' feeling. Perhaps a little more considerate to the drivetrain. Warranty available.
Roush - roots (up to 427hp), warrantied, but not the most attractive of kit! Instant torque, but perhaps more parasitic than the centrifugals. Air charge gets hotter with use (this was my experience on my Weiand too), so power drops during prolonged abuse
Twin screw - Saleen, Whipple (Ford Racing), Kenne Bell - all great by most accounts. Internally charge cooled, so more consistent power delivery. But this perhaps brings the question of how much is too much? The 'safe' operating margin for the 3V engine seems to be 400ft/lbs torque and up to 450hp (US hp that is). No UK support that I've found so far, so no warranty (anyone know different?).
Roots Hybrid - Magnacharger. 3 rotor roots with 60 degree helix, so a hybrid between a roots and screw (forced induction and compression). Trying to find some reports on this unit along with UK support. Magnacharger are OE fitment on a fair number of cars and Eaton's credentials are well established. They claim very little parasitic loss, with good power gains. Jury's out on this until I have more info.
Now, I'm pretty keen on getting a warranty with this as I'd rather not have the inconvenience of having to rebuild a 3V engine here in the UK (and I can't exactly post it back ). This really only leaves the Roush and the Vortech in the frame. They both have their merits and I really can't decide between them! The 400-450hp (and the figure does vary depending on who you speak to) 'safe' operating figure is interesting and I'd rather not get into having to replace the rods and crank. 420hp is a nice 'middle' figure and is ample for what I'm after on the road. The dealer I'm sourcing from is also a Roush distributor, so this makes the Roush perhaps a more convenient option.
Ah well, it's not going to be an immediate mod any way (will probably add a cold air intake to the stock car first and see how it goes), so more research I guess
Keep going round the houses with supercharger choice! It breaks down into a number of pros and cons - but there doesn't seem to be a 'wrong' choice. The way I see it:
Vortech/Paxton - centrifugal with gobloads of power (462hp), but take a while to spin up so maybe lacking a little in immediate 'shove in the back' feeling. Perhaps a little more considerate to the drivetrain. Warranty available.
Roush - roots (up to 427hp), warrantied, but not the most attractive of kit! Instant torque, but perhaps more parasitic than the centrifugals. Air charge gets hotter with use (this was my experience on my Weiand too), so power drops during prolonged abuse
Twin screw - Saleen, Whipple (Ford Racing), Kenne Bell - all great by most accounts. Internally charge cooled, so more consistent power delivery. But this perhaps brings the question of how much is too much? The 'safe' operating margin for the 3V engine seems to be 400ft/lbs torque and up to 450hp (US hp that is). No UK support that I've found so far, so no warranty (anyone know different?).
Roots Hybrid - Magnacharger. 3 rotor roots with 60 degree helix, so a hybrid between a roots and screw (forced induction and compression). Trying to find some reports on this unit along with UK support. Magnacharger are OE fitment on a fair number of cars and Eaton's credentials are well established. They claim very little parasitic loss, with good power gains. Jury's out on this until I have more info.
Now, I'm pretty keen on getting a warranty with this as I'd rather not have the inconvenience of having to rebuild a 3V engine here in the UK (and I can't exactly post it back
). This really only leaves the Roush and the Vortech in the frame. They both have their merits and I really can't decide between them! The 400-450hp (and the figure does vary depending on who you speak to) 'safe' operating figure is interesting and I'd rather not get into having to replace the rods and crank. 420hp is a nice 'middle' figure and is ample for what I'm after on the road. The dealer I'm sourcing from is also a Roush distributor, so this makes the Roush perhaps a more convenient option. Ah well, it's not going to be an immediate mod any way (will probably add a cold air intake to the stock car first and see how it goes), so more research I guess
In the US, they're running lots of hp. That 450hp figure is at the rear wheels too. I had the same choice and went for the Vortech on looks. I wouldn't criticise anyone for buying the Roush though. Have a look on www.mocgb.net as there are various types on there including (I think) Roush and Saleen. I know Saleen are very good at "distance" warranty support.
Hi there
I've added a supercharger to my car, however I went about it in a different and went to where Mustangs are in there 1000's, back to their homeland to see what everybody is using over there and recommending. Needless to say Saleen is the most common, no engine losses and it creates the most power with the least psi, even better still been a twin screw the torque low down is great.
With 8psi I am making 532BHP and 510Lb-Ft (Powerstations Dyno) with perfect fuelling upto 6800rpm. Thats with stock engine internals and fuelling, plus a conservative email tune.
The guys in the US are running upto 12psi on standard engine internals but are fitting GT500 twin fuel pumps. Those guys are making like 600BHP-700BHP, again on standard internals.
I fitted my Saleen by myself and the whole kit was $6500 shipped, I did not have to pay any taxes/duty and fitted myself so excellent power upgrade for the money. Remember the whole point of a supercharger is instant throttle reponse and loads of torque, the Saleen has no issues here.
If you drive a Saleen powered car you will forget about Roush and Vortech options as the Saleen makes more power and a whole lot more torque. Then there is the Kenne Bell which is a 2.6l unit and makes more power but not as many are using that. There is also the Whipple which looks a nice bit of kit too. In favour of the Roush and Vortech kits is they may cost less maybe as my Saleen kit delivered was £3600, so if the Roush/Vortech options cost less then those could be more ideal. But if you can spend the extra get the Saleen kit and do it now whilst the dollar rate is so much in our favour.
Goto www.teamjdm.com for more info or drop Jim an email as he will help you.
I've added a supercharger to my car, however I went about it in a different and went to where Mustangs are in there 1000's, back to their homeland to see what everybody is using over there and recommending. Needless to say Saleen is the most common, no engine losses and it creates the most power with the least psi, even better still been a twin screw the torque low down is great.
With 8psi I am making 532BHP and 510Lb-Ft (Powerstations Dyno) with perfect fuelling upto 6800rpm. Thats with stock engine internals and fuelling, plus a conservative email tune.
The guys in the US are running upto 12psi on standard engine internals but are fitting GT500 twin fuel pumps. Those guys are making like 600BHP-700BHP, again on standard internals.
I fitted my Saleen by myself and the whole kit was $6500 shipped, I did not have to pay any taxes/duty and fitted myself so excellent power upgrade for the money. Remember the whole point of a supercharger is instant throttle reponse and loads of torque, the Saleen has no issues here.
If you drive a Saleen powered car you will forget about Roush and Vortech options as the Saleen makes more power and a whole lot more torque. Then there is the Kenne Bell which is a 2.6l unit and makes more power but not as many are using that. There is also the Whipple which looks a nice bit of kit too.
In favour of the Roush and Vortech kits is they may cost less maybe as my Saleen kit delivered was £3600, so if the Roush/Vortech options cost less then those could be more ideal. But if you can spend the extra get the Saleen kit and do it now whilst the dollar rate is so much in our favour. Goto www.teamjdm.com for more info or drop Jim an email as he will help you.
Edited by [OcUK]Gibbo on Sunday 7th January 21:31
Edited by [OcUK]Gibbo on Sunday 7th January 22:23
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