Advice for elise owner thinking of a GT

[bher]

Hello Guys,

I would like to have you opinion about my vision of your pride e.g. the new mustang GT.
I am currently owner of a track oriented Lotus elise (Too much track oriented for easy daily use ) and a absolutely slow and politically correct Volvo V70.
I am looking at the mustang as as mid way between the two (sorry to compare with the volvo but I mean as "type of car"
I see the Mustang as a wonderfull car for:
1. the look (front is absolutely supeb, aggressive but not too much, just enough retro ... in one word: perfect!)
2, the engine (V8, 300 bhp easily upgradable, sound,......
3, the price for the exclusivity (not imported in Belgium, it is possible to get it from official ford dealer with homologation, paperwork and warranty for 30000£ (opinion?)))
4, It is a 4 seaters (Are the rear seats really useable?)

I see the mustang as an average car for
interior finition (But I do not care so much as far as It is not falling apart or not working)

I see the mustang as a bad choice for
fuel economy (but what is the real average mpg ?) I red EVO and they quote a significant 15 (almost the same as the ferrari 550, glup... Is this true???
the belgian tax system (5000£ to put it on the roads the first year).... Ok this is MY problem... I take car of it ....

Thanks for sharing your opinions and advices. I have a lot of other questions (efficiency as standard, possible mods to start with, ability on track, choice between manual or automatic speed box, resale value) but this is for the next step. I have to decide first to go for it or not.

Bher

[smele]

Hmm, I used to have a sport 160 elise so I can feel that I can comment on both.

1. The look, well they are different and certainly look different when parked at your local supermarket.
2. Engine, a great point. I would not say the best engine in the world, but sounds great and like you mention, there are lots of add ons and a huge US market for parts, websites and advice. They generaly pull well from lowdown and make for quick effortless motoring. Not real red liners. Can suffer from drive line shunt and over keen engine management system, but nothing the aftermarket can't help you with.
3. Not aware of Mustangs available from UK dealers, someone else might know different.
4. The back drivers seat in my car (02) touches the back seat when I drive. Possible for children or for a short journey to the pub, but really not much use.

Fuel economy. That has to be one of the worst pionts, but it is all relative. If I am out on a drive, lots of loud pedal, then 15mpg would be about the mark, maybe 12mpg. However, on a long motorway trip, 30-35mpg can be achieved. Probably 20-25 is more typical for town/motorway/commuting/bit of loud pedal. It's the bloody noise the thing makes that keeps encouraging you to use the loud pedal.

Driving the Mustang after the Lotus I was completely shocked at how terrible it was, reminded me of a transit Van. But, if I think of it not as a sports car, but a GT it is not so bad. For the money it is very different and entertaining.

What I would do with a new car:

1. Exhaust, must upgrade. It's about 75% of the reason I bought the car.
2. Wheels, Tyres (Tires), suspension. Changing these will sharpen up the handling. Made me feel better about my car.
3. ECU/Performance mods. Got my ECU tuned, made it more driveable, smoother, maybe an increase in BHP, but I don't think I owuld notice 20 BHP on top of 300.
4. Brakes. If you like good breaks or are thinking of tracking the car, these are really poor on the standard car.

Hope that helps. It's different, not as fast as a Subaru, not as refiend as a 330 BMW, not as sharp as an Elise.

[LuS1fer]

bher said:

I see the Mustang as a wonderfull car for:
1. the look (front is absolutely supeb, aggressive but not too much, just enough retro ... in one word: perfect!)
2, the engine (V8, 300 bhp easily upgradable, sound,......
3, the price for the exclusivity (not imported in Belgium, it is possible to get it from official ford dealer with homologation, paperwork and warranty for 30000£ (opinion?)))
4, It is a 4 seaters (Are the rear seats really useable?)

The look is superb but it still looks tall even when lowered. Mine is supercharged, lowered and uses Tokico D-Spec adjustable shocks. It's been on several recent fast Pistonhead runs and to be honest, the Elise is all very well but it's not my cup of tea (I test drove a 130 once and fell in love with my Camaro Z28 even more) and on fast blats down damp country lanes, the Elise could do nothing to shake the Mustang which remained stable and unperturbed. They cost about £27000 fully registered for a Premium GT in the UK and that's with the lights converted, SVA test under it's belt and all import duty (10%) and VAT (17.5% on top) paid. Barely used, they drop to not much more than £20000. I suspect that ,like the UK, you get no warranty from Ford US in Belgium. £30000 seems expensive. The engine is easily tunable with a cold air kit to 325hp minimum and can be supercharged easily (mine has 462hp). I'm 5'6" tall and the rear seats are usable for children up to about 10 but they're not as good as the old Camaro because the centre console juts into the back seats. Far better than any 911, DB9 or Maserati though.

bher said:

I see the mustang as an average car for
interior finition (But I do not care so much as far as It is not falling apart or not working)

The interior is a bit plasticky but all American cars are very durable and rarely get any worse. I had a 17 year old Camaro which had an original untouched fabric interior which rattled and zizzed as good as new. Americans want an interior that will last, not look fashionable. having said that, try and get an Premium with Interior Upgrade pack which has vinyl on the doors. It's good, it's honest, it's stylish and it won't break.

bher said:

I see the mustang as a bad choice for
fuel economy (but what is the real average mpg ?) I red EVO and they quote a significant 15 (almost the same as the ferrari 550, glup... Is this true???

To be honest, a load of rubbish is spouted on this point. The computer readout is in US mpg. I used to get about 22 US mpg commuting which is around 25-26 UK mpg. I have just come back from a hard run with other performance cars using the engine to the red line and shrieking the supercharger to it's maximum and it still returned 17 US mpg which is 20.5 UK mpg. I suspect car mags just quote the US figure which they read on the computer but mine has NEVER been as low as 15. I know one owner who has said he's had it as low as 15 US mpg but I suspect he must boot it and show off a lot in traffic.....it's no worse and probably better than a Subaru or Evo and way better than any RX8 and probably the same as a 350Z.

bher said:

the belgian tax system (5000£ to put it on the roads the first year).... Ok this is MY problem... I take car of it ....

I'm sure the UK will end up the same way one day.

bher said:

Thanks for sharing your opinions and advices. I have a lot of other questions (efficiency as standard, possible mods to start with, ability on track, choice between manual or automatic speed box, resale value) but this is for the next step. I have to decide first to go for it or not.

Manual every time. It's a good slick gearbox. Needs lowering. Needs lower profile tyres. The stock shocks and dampers are too soft so the car rises and falls under acceleration/braking and rolls a little too much. They can be made pretty quick on track and I'm sure the track time in the back of EVO is with a tune but on the stupid stock tyres (235/55's). The shell of the 2005 is supposed to be as stiff as the last Mustang with a roll cage. It really is a good car with cheap parts that need replacing. The brakes are it's weakness (weighing 3500 lbs/1585kg). Great for a short stopping distance once or twice but prone to heat and fade (the soft suspension doesn't help here as it throws weight forward). Many aftermarket brake kits exist to upgrade them although I've found mine ae perfectly adequate for fast road use and plan on fitting grooved rotors and harder pads.

Good luck with the decision. Overall, it's a very accomplished car once you sort out the suspension (which isn't too bad in stock form, just geared for comfort).

[atlanticvipers]

What you will find as many mustang owners have is that there is so much you can do to the mustang to personalise it for yourself. There are so many different body kits etc that you can go to town making the vehicle exactly what you want. Exhausts are a must and we fit Borla which in my view sound the best. A roush supercharger again is fantastic and makes a huge difference performance wise. Come on in if you want to take a spin www.atlanticsportscars.com

[bher]

THANKS GUYS for your advices.
I plan a test at the dealer (only with the convertible available at the moment) for next saturday or so
The 42000 euros or 30000£ are with the 2 year warranty from ford US (not europe or belgium) but seems overpriced to me. I will also discuss this when testing.
It could maybe included already some mods for that price. As I understood exhaust and ECU are the first step? Then logically tyres and dampers. and if I want to track it (probably not....except a few times to see and feel the car ) ...change the brakes.
AFAIK I would take the manual GB.
Are the stripes only on the shelby or available new from ford as option?
Thanks again

[LuS1fer]

bher said:

THANKS GUYS for your advices.
I plan a test at the dealer (only with the convertible available at the moment) for next saturday or so
The 42000 euros or 30000£ are with the 2 year warranty from ford US (not europe or belgium) but seems overpriced to me. I will also discuss this when testing.
It could maybe included already some mods for that price. As I understood exhaust and ECU are the first step? Then logically tyres and dampers. and if I want to track it (probably not....except a few times to see and feel the car ) ...change the brakes.
AFAIK I would take the manual GB.
Are the stripes only on the shelby or available new from ford as option?
Thanks again

As far as I know, Ford won't honour the warranty outside the US unless you're a US serviceman so check what warranty you're actually getting. Is it not worth buying one in the UK? Tye Euro regs it has to comply with are the same I would imagine. The stripes are an option on all Mustangs.

[bher]

I went to the dealer (unfortunately too late for a test)
Contact was excellent, very motivated guy mustang fan since the one of his father, he is waiting for a shelby one for him.

Basically, he asks 42000 euros for a premium GT with 18 wheels and
- importation,
- tax and VAT
- 2 years of warranty (one by the ford dealer in US who sell the car and one from himself as official Ford dealer in Belgium) and
- the single vehicule autorisation- homologation for belgium which requires anti fog at the rear, FOLDING MIRRORS , some work on the exhaust for emission purpose, etc..
This last 2 points are probably the reason for the apparently "high" price.

I did not try the car but ear it and it was very pleasant. The interior is normal (car had interior upgrade), rear seats are really small (I have 3 kids) . I would take the manual gearbox and he confirmed it is a good choice)

My impresion is very good but I think if I am enough clever (and this is not sure) I should wait for a second hand one. I was thinking importing it myself but that seems too much a job for me (1. to pass homologation require putting a lot of legal stuff on the car and directlty after remove them to keep the car as original as possible and 2. warranty is probably not a bad idea: all my last cars had minor or medium problems the first year of new ownerchip).

Ben

Edited by bher on Tuesday 19th December 16:22

[LuS1fer]

Interesting because they don't do folding mirrors for the Mustang. In the UK, left hand drive cars are exempt from this requirement.

[philoldsmobile]

its an EU requirment, all cars sold on mainland europe need folding mirrors, hence the reason the euro spec Z28 and corvette got them


for the mustang, i'm pretty sure you can buy them from main dealers in germany, these would have folding mirrors, or from japan, my 96 stang was sold new in japan and has folding mirrors, i guess they will sell the new shape there too, the mustangs sold in japan while left hand drive, were proper jap spec cars, and imported by ford of japan, not through specialists..


i have a japanese handbook for my car, its mid boggling!!

Edited by philoldsmobile on Saturday 6th January 14:59