Oil cooler failure

Oil cooler failure

Author
Discussion

jimboy2

Original Poster:

179 posts

137 months

Sunday 23rd April 2017
quotequote all
April 2016 built car. Under 5k miles. This is the 4th issue I have seen so far so may be more out there. Keep an eye or your coolant bottle. Car is with Ford now. Will hopefully have a full diagnosis in the next couple of days

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8...


Gibbo205

3,572 posts

214 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
I know of:

Me
You
Wobs on M6G

Also two guys on Facebook and a guy I met at a meet, so that is six cars which have all suffered this failure. No idea when my car was built, I took delivery last January.

OddCat

2,675 posts

178 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
I have limited knowledge of things mechanical but am (or maybe after reading this was !) in the market for a Mustang.

My understanding is that, within the heat exchanger / radiator, the hot oil moved through pipes which are themselves surrounded by coolant. So it is a kind of combination secondary radiator thing.

That being the case I would have thought that:

1. a hole in the heat exchanger unit casing would leak only coolant onto the floor - with the oil still being within the pipes within the heat exchanger (unless, say, a stone went straight through the whole thing and damaged the oil pipes within it) ?

2. the only way the heat exchanger could leak oil onto the floor (and not coolant) would be if one of the oil pipes running to it were to become detached ?

3. other than a hole through the lot, the only way that oil and water could mix is if one of the pipes in the cooler split (although there would be no external leakage) ?

4. if there is oil in the water then there is water in the oil.

I still don't understand how there can be only oil on the floor and also oil in the water. Feels like that might be two things.

Anyway, the Ford TSB on the other thread definitely says if there is evidence of cross contamination either way then the solution is to "replace the engine assembly". Which means replace the engine. All of the steps that follow in the TSB that are just about flushing out the heater system while the engine is out....

So there is no worrying about future engine problems on a case where there is clear evidence of cross contamination. The engine is going to be replaced.


slowhand99

242 posts

115 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Oil pressurising the coolant system could result in fluid (by now and oil and water mix) being forced out of the overflow/pressure relief in the header tank.

OddCat

2,675 posts

178 months

jimboy2

Original Poster:

179 posts

137 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
OddCat said:
I have limited knowledge of things mechanical but am (or maybe after reading this was !) in the market for a Mustang.

My understanding is that, within the heat exchanger / radiator, the hot oil moved through pipes which are themselves surrounded by coolant. So it is a kind of combination secondary radiator thing.

That being the case I would have thought that:

1. a hole in the heat exchanger unit casing would leak only coolant onto the floor - with the oil still being within the pipes within the heat exchanger (unless, say, a stone went straight through the whole thing and damaged the oil pipes within it) ?

2. the only way the heat exchanger could leak oil onto the floor (and not coolant) would be if one of the oil pipes running to it were to become detached ?

3. other than a hole through the lot, the only way that oil and water could mix is if one of the pipes in the cooler split (although there would be no external leakage) ?

4. if there is oil in the water then there is water in the oil.

I still don't understand how there can be only oil on the floor and also oil in the water. Feels like that might be two things.

Anyway, the Ford TSB on the other thread definitely says if there is evidence of cross contamination either way then the solution is to "replace the engine assembly". Which means replace the engine. All of the steps that follow in the TSB that are just about flushing out the heater system while the engine is out....

So there is no worrying about future engine problems on a case where there is clear evidence of cross contamination. The engine is going to be replaced.
As of right now, the engine will not be replaced. I have emailed my dealer asking why and what guarantee I have for future internal engine problems.

jimboy2

Original Poster:

179 posts

137 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
OddCat said:
I have limited knowledge of things mechanical but am (or maybe after reading this was !) in the market for a Mustang.

My understanding is that, within the heat exchanger / radiator, the hot oil moved through pipes which are themselves surrounded by coolant. So it is a kind of combination secondary radiator thing.

That being the case I would have thought that:

1. a hole in the heat exchanger unit casing would leak only coolant onto the floor - with the oil still being within the pipes within the heat exchanger (unless, say, a stone went straight through the whole thing and damaged the oil pipes within it) ?

2. the only way the heat exchanger could leak oil onto the floor (and not coolant) would be if one of the oil pipes running to it were to become detached ?

3. other than a hole through the lot, the only way that oil and water could mix is if one of the pipes in the cooler split (although there would be no external leakage) ?

4. if there is oil in the water then there is water in the oil.

I still don't understand how there can be only oil on the floor and also oil in the water. Feels like that might be two things.

Anyway, the Ford TSB on the other thread definitely says if there is evidence of cross contamination either way then the solution is to "replace the engine assembly". Which means replace the engine. All of the steps that follow in the TSB that are just about flushing out the heater system while the engine is out....

So there is no worrying about future engine problems on a case where there is clear evidence of cross contamination. The engine is going to be replaced.
As of right now, the engine will not be replaced. I have emailed my dealer asking why and what guarantee I have for future internal engine problems.

OddCat

2,675 posts

178 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
...but the TSB is quite clear. Why would a dealer not just follow that ?

slowhand99

242 posts

115 months

Tuesday 25th April 2017
quotequote all
OddCat said:
...but the TSB is quite clear. Why would a dealer not just follow that ?
Have you dealt with a Ford dealer recently?

OddCat

2,675 posts

178 months

Wednesday 26th April 2017
quotequote all
slowhand99 said:
Have you dealt with a Ford dealer recently?
...good point !

None the less, if the manufacturer has issued a clear instruction (and will pay for the repair) why would a dealer stick his neck out and do something different ? More importantly, why would a punter allow a dealer to ignore the manufacturer instructions ?

Sounds like this affects 12+ months worth of production. And maybe is multi oil cooler issues (some pipes becoming detached / crimped, some oil cooler structural failure etc). Without a recall to change oil coolers in all of the cars potentially affected could it be Russian Roulette on every journey ?

No doubt Ford are doing the maths - how many will likely fail (and need new engines) vs the cost of changing them all. And we know how good Ford are at such maths.......

I don't want to buy a car if I have to look underneath it before, and after, every journey !

jimboy2

Original Poster:

179 posts

137 months

Monday 1st May 2017
quotequote all
I was told that this TSB is not for the UK market... what more can I say? I am going to take this further as after driving today I felt I had to check under the car looking for oil. I don't want that feeling everythme I drive it

Paulius.lie

3 posts

95 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
quotequote all
Hi,,, so yh,,, just today I noticed my car leaking this brown milki mass and all engine oil is in coolant system,,, left car at my friends house there I noticed it and found little puddle back home that means drove with low oil all day, had no worning lights or anything,,, mustang is 8 months old 10k miles on it,,, that to expect from ford then I go there tomorrow???

slowhand99

242 posts

115 months

Tuesday 22nd May 2018
quotequote all
Paulius.lie said:
Hi,,, so yh,,, just today I noticed my car leaking this brown milki mass and all engine oil is in coolant system,,, left car at my friends house there I noticed it and found little puddle back home that means drove with low oil all day, had no worning lights or anything,,, mustang is 8 months old 10k miles on it,,, that to expect from ford then I go there tomorrow???
Get it recovered back to the dealer with Ford assist.

WayneAustin

1 posts

48 months

Tuesday 24th November 2020
quotequote all
The stock oil cooler in the S550 is junk, I have seen so many fail recently especially in the 15-17 models, it was said that FOMoCo did a slight revision to the cooler for the My18+ but that doesn't seem to be the case at all, just a few weeks ago an MY18 failed that I know of, as a precaution I had MAP in Batley change mine to be safe, as I'm running supercharged they did a blog on it and a video of Orange Fury here: mustang gt oil cooler failure

It's been mentioned that the MY21 Mach 1 has an updated oil cooler system so time will tell if the have finally fixed it, but air cooled is the way to go for now and to prevent an engine blow up.

Cheers


ducnick

1,927 posts

250 months

Monday 18th January 2021
quotequote all
WayneAustin said:
The stock oil cooler in the S550 is junk, I have seen so many fail recently especially in the 15-17 models, it was said that FOMoCo did a slight revision to the cooler for the My18+ but that doesn't seem to be the case at all, just a few weeks ago an MY18 failed that I know of, as a precaution I had MAP in Batley change mine to be safe, as I'm running supercharged they did a blog on it and a video of Orange Fury here: mustang gt oil cooler failure

It's been mentioned that the MY21 Mach 1 has an updated oil cooler system so time will tell if the have finally fixed it, but air cooled is the way to go for now and to prevent an engine blow up.

Cheers
to clarify that... the lhd mach 1 has an upgraded cooler. The rhd one has to use a different solution because of the power steering rack being different We have yet to see if :
1. RHD mach 1 uses stock RHD cooler
2. RHD mach 1 has a totally different cooler assembly designed JUST for the small number of RHD mach 1's they will sell (VERY unlikely)
3. RHD mach 1 has stock RHD cooler + a supplementary air/oil cooler.

since they didn't bother putting the US gauge pack in RHD or the US spec diff.. my money is on option 1.