Modern mustang; 4.6 or 5L?
Discussion
Hi folks,
I'm fairly set on getting a mustang at some point;
My question is, is the 5.0 a massive improvement over the 4.6?
I'm talking about GTs mainly rather than any of the specials.
4.6 I could afford now, whereas a 5.0 would require another year of saving (or more!)
Thanks in advance
I'm fairly set on getting a mustang at some point;
My question is, is the 5.0 a massive improvement over the 4.6?
I'm talking about GTs mainly rather than any of the specials.
4.6 I could afford now, whereas a 5.0 would require another year of saving (or more!)
Thanks in advance
The 4.6 3v is a good engine but has a mere 300/315hp unless you supercharge it. Doing so usually involves other mods like wheels, tyres and suspension.
The 5.0 with 425hp is always going to be the more desirable car (mechanically) but I think the new rear lights are harder to convert to UK spec.
The "bargai"n is the 2010 model with the 4.6 and the revised rear end that not many people liked. These tend to go quite cheaply and a supercharger is easily fitted (Mike at ModurStang does many of them).
There are quality improvements in post 2010 interiors though less style. The later cars had a "track pack" option which meant better suspension, saving you a modification.
The 5.0 seems to have a gruffer engine note than the 4.6 but, like anything, the newer car makes the older cars better value and IMHO the 2005-2009 cars are the best lookers.
Mine is a 2005 with 462hp and I wouldn't change it for a 5.0 based on looks and the mods I've done to it.
The 5.0 with 425hp is always going to be the more desirable car (mechanically) but I think the new rear lights are harder to convert to UK spec.
The "bargai"n is the 2010 model with the 4.6 and the revised rear end that not many people liked. These tend to go quite cheaply and a supercharger is easily fitted (Mike at ModurStang does many of them).
There are quality improvements in post 2010 interiors though less style. The later cars had a "track pack" option which meant better suspension, saving you a modification.
The 5.0 seems to have a gruffer engine note than the 4.6 but, like anything, the newer car makes the older cars better value and IMHO the 2005-2009 cars are the best lookers.
Mine is a 2005 with 462hp and I wouldn't change it for a 5.0 based on looks and the mods I've done to it.
Thanks for a great reply Lus1fer. What sort of cash monies is the 'charger?
I havent driven one yet, hope to do so soon.
My car history is tvr/caterham/Elise/Beemers so I'll be interesting to see how they compare to that little lot.
I do plan to do some modifications to whatever stang I end up with...
I havent driven one yet, hope to do so soon.
My car history is tvr/caterham/Elise/Beemers so I'll be interesting to see how they compare to that little lot.
I do plan to do some modifications to whatever stang I end up with...
JakeR said:
Thanks for a great reply Lus1fer. What sort of cash monies is the 'charger?
I havent driven one yet, hope to do so soon.
My car history is tvr/caterham/Elise/Beemers so I'll be interesting to see how they compare to that little lot.
I do plan to do some modifications to whatever stang I end up with...
I believe the charger will pan out at something like £6k fitted but a lot depends on the exchange rate and which type you buy. It sounds expensive but the kits now offer near 500hp without the need for forged internals.I havent driven one yet, hope to do so soon.
My car history is tvr/caterham/Elise/Beemers so I'll be interesting to see how they compare to that little lot.
I do plan to do some modifications to whatever stang I end up with...
When I bought mine in 2005, I was quite disappointed by how "soft" it was but the great thing about Mustangs is the parts are not prohibitively expensive and there are arrangements in place such as STS imports where you can get stuff sent over via container to avoid the killer shipping costs.
Being simple and the fact it comes apart like Meccano means you can do a lot od jobs yourself but Mike at ModurStang is the man for mods as he really knows his stuff.
The two main Mustang UK sites are www.mocgb.net and www.s197.co.uk - the latter having loads of information posted on these cars which are also remarkably free of faults and foibles, most "issues" coming from the SVA/IVA light conversions originally. Best to run any prospective purchase past the forum as the car may be known.
EDITED to add that there should already be supercharged cars about. Also look out for the Roush Mustangs (pretty handy round the trcak) and Saleen variants. Some are blown, some aren't.
If you know what you want, it might be worth posting a Wanted ad as many owners aren't actively looking to sell but if somone made them an offer would happily sell.
Edited by LuS1fer on Monday 7th January 12:52
The 2011 and 2012 5.0 (Coyote) engine is rated at 412bhp and the 2013 and 2014 rated at 420bhp.
Some of the early 2011 and 2012 engines suffered detonation issues in cylinder number 8, but this appears to be down to some early aftermarket tunes going wrong. I've not heard of any issues over here in the UK though.
Drive a 2005-2009 GT back to back with a 2010 model and you'll be amazed how much more "mature" the ride and handling seem on the newer car. It feels much better "planted" as standard, much more along the lines of the BMW you may be used to. The older cars (mines an '05) can feel rough n ready by comparison. As LV51FER mentioned, the 10+ car also have some softer materials in the cabin, which helps prevent a few of the rattles the older cars experience.
The old 4.6 litre engine is a lugger and seem to spread it's torque very evenly from low revs. The 5.0 is a much more rev-happy engine. It still has low down torque, but you'll really only notice the difference when pressing on.
Your next question will be manual v auto. The 2005-2010 use 5 speeds for both.......the 2011 5.0 bought 6 speeds for both. Only the latest 2013 and 2014 auto models feature a manual override (called SelectShift) which uses buttons on the side of the shifter for "manual" control.
Me, if I was doing it again, I'd go for the latest autobox.......but that's as much because I just cruise, rather than bruise
Some of the early 2011 and 2012 engines suffered detonation issues in cylinder number 8, but this appears to be down to some early aftermarket tunes going wrong. I've not heard of any issues over here in the UK though.
Drive a 2005-2009 GT back to back with a 2010 model and you'll be amazed how much more "mature" the ride and handling seem on the newer car. It feels much better "planted" as standard, much more along the lines of the BMW you may be used to. The older cars (mines an '05) can feel rough n ready by comparison. As LV51FER mentioned, the 10+ car also have some softer materials in the cabin, which helps prevent a few of the rattles the older cars experience.
The old 4.6 litre engine is a lugger and seem to spread it's torque very evenly from low revs. The 5.0 is a much more rev-happy engine. It still has low down torque, but you'll really only notice the difference when pressing on.
Your next question will be manual v auto. The 2005-2010 use 5 speeds for both.......the 2011 5.0 bought 6 speeds for both. Only the latest 2013 and 2014 auto models feature a manual override (called SelectShift) which uses buttons on the side of the shifter for "manual" control.
Me, if I was doing it again, I'd go for the latest autobox.......but that's as much because I just cruise, rather than bruise
This is really helpful for me too, thank you. Honest words about the differences. My budget will be 16k which I am spending in Feb ’14, when we move back to UK. I was looking at getting an 05-09 model with a Cervini kit which I am sure 16k will get me.
I feel that is the best looking year range. Perhaps the 4.6 2010 would be a better option???? I have a year..
I feel that is the best looking year range. Perhaps the 4.6 2010 would be a better option???? I have a year..
stormy22 said:
You know what…are the rattles in the 05-09 that bad? Is it much worse? Cos I really prefer the look of it, the extra power doesn’t bother me that much and I will surely get more of a car for my money…?
Mine doesn't rattle. the main source of rattle is the locking rods in the doors which are soon isoated and fixed. Personally, having sat in a 2010 I don't particularly like the interior, it's boring. OK for BMW types though. 
The trick is to buy a car with mods already done so the suspension is sorted. The stock suspension is soft but both Roush and Saleen come with their own and as I have said, even top spec adjustable Tokico D-Spec dampers are relatively affordable.
I had a 2005 Mustang GT and have had other Mustangs previously. Due to a bunion on my left foot making clutch operation painful over long distances I wanted to swap it for an auto in September 2010. At the time there were the last of the 2010's on sale and the new 2011's too so I tried both. I didn't like the 2011 auto with the 5.0 and extra gear because it didn't seem to be able to make it's mind up which gear it wanted to be in.
The upgraded interior and suspension was the same on both and a vast improvement on the 2005 I had at the time. I had the opportunity to buy a brand new 2010 4.6 GT auto with $8k of options from an importer that was closing down. Having had the '05 I liked that engine and to buy a 2011 model with the same spec would have cost £10k more at the time.
So.... at the end of the day I bought the 2010, sold the '05 on Pistonheads and swapped a 5 year old 40k mile car for a brand new one with 3 yrs AA Gold warranty, 12 months road tax and a full tank of gas for little over £10k.
I love it
The upgraded interior and suspension was the same on both and a vast improvement on the 2005 I had at the time. I had the opportunity to buy a brand new 2010 4.6 GT auto with $8k of options from an importer that was closing down. Having had the '05 I liked that engine and to buy a 2011 model with the same spec would have cost £10k more at the time.
So.... at the end of the day I bought the 2010, sold the '05 on Pistonheads and swapped a 5 year old 40k mile car for a brand new one with 3 yrs AA Gold warranty, 12 months road tax and a full tank of gas for little over £10k.
I love it
Hi Jake,
Good to catch up with you yesterday. Umm. This thread is everything we were talking about. lol
The strange thing about the 10 , 11 . 12 is that as far as I can see, the running platform and suspension, trailing arms are exactly the same as the 05-10. I guess they may feel more planted because they are newer.!
All though its good, avoid anything with Roush suspension, because it will fail. I get leaking Roush shocks, etc in most weeks.!! Tokico D spec the way to go.
Anything with uprated brakes, BMR control arms, and Good suspension upgrades is a good place to start. Superchargers do vary in price, but save a few extra pounds and go with the TVS type thing. Its worth it.
Any more help, feel free to call me. Anybody.
Thanks for the nod LusIfer.
Mike.
www.modurstang.co.uk
01608 678818
07774 712000
Good to catch up with you yesterday. Umm. This thread is everything we were talking about. lol
The strange thing about the 10 , 11 . 12 is that as far as I can see, the running platform and suspension, trailing arms are exactly the same as the 05-10. I guess they may feel more planted because they are newer.!
All though its good, avoid anything with Roush suspension, because it will fail. I get leaking Roush shocks, etc in most weeks.!! Tokico D spec the way to go.
Anything with uprated brakes, BMR control arms, and Good suspension upgrades is a good place to start. Superchargers do vary in price, but save a few extra pounds and go with the TVS type thing. Its worth it.
Any more help, feel free to call me. Anybody.
Thanks for the nod LusIfer.
Mike.
www.modurstang.co.uk
01608 678818
07774 712000
Yellastang Mike said:
Hi Jake,
Good to catch up with you yesterday. Umm. This thread is everything we were talking about. lol
The strange thing about the 10 , 11 . 12 is that as far as I can see, the running platform and suspension, trailing arms are exactly the same as the 05-10. I guess they may feel more planted because they are newer.!
All though its good, avoid anything with Roush suspension, because it will fail. I get leaking Roush shocks, etc in most weeks.!! Tokico D spec the way to go.
Anything with uprated brakes, BMR control arms, and Good suspension upgrades is a good place to start. Superchargers do vary in price, but save a few extra pounds and go with the TVS type thing. Its worth it.
Any more help, feel free to call me. Anybody.
Thanks for the nod LusIfer.
Mike.
www.modurstang.co.uk
01608 678818
07774 712000
Hi Mike,Good to catch up with you yesterday. Umm. This thread is everything we were talking about. lol
The strange thing about the 10 , 11 . 12 is that as far as I can see, the running platform and suspension, trailing arms are exactly the same as the 05-10. I guess they may feel more planted because they are newer.!
All though its good, avoid anything with Roush suspension, because it will fail. I get leaking Roush shocks, etc in most weeks.!! Tokico D spec the way to go.
Anything with uprated brakes, BMR control arms, and Good suspension upgrades is a good place to start. Superchargers do vary in price, but save a few extra pounds and go with the TVS type thing. Its worth it.
Any more help, feel free to call me. Anybody.
Thanks for the nod LusIfer.
Mike.
www.modurstang.co.uk
01608 678818
07774 712000
Yep, I called you after LuS1fer's reply! Thanks for all your help and advice yesterday... was very informative.
I spent the rest of the day looking at classifieds and then modding and racing a 2005 GT (on my xbox
)cheers
Jake
Jake.....at £16k you are not likely to get a 5.0 (even if you save for another year). Nothing wrong with the 4.6 at all. Besides, any Mustang will put a smile on your face
Who knows.....S197 prices may stay firm once the all new car is launched in April '14. This is likely to be a very different looking 'Stang, which may work in our favour.
As for the rattles? No, they are not that bad. I get the odd on every now and again from the dash area, but put your foot down and you won't hear it
Who knows.....S197 prices may stay firm once the all new car is launched in April '14. This is likely to be a very different looking 'Stang, which may work in our favour.
As for the rattles? No, they are not that bad. I get the odd on every now and again from the dash area, but put your foot down and you won't hear it
Yellastang Mike said:
The strange thing about the 10 , 11 . 12 is that as far as I can see, the running platform and suspension, trailing arms are exactly the same as the 05-10. I guess they may feel more planted because they are newer.!
This is a good point and a conversation I've had a few times. Given the basic components are the same, the difference between and '09 and a '10 model is significant. Ford must have gone through some of the components, fine tuning them........what those are, and what they did to them, I don't know. All I do know is I was gobsmacked when I test drove the Bill Shepherd 2010.....a care lowered over 20" wheels (as my '05 is) but it just felt beautifully dampded and planted on the road with great steering.David Wilson at Bill Shepherd, was kind enough to bring one along to our Berkshire meet
Anf then Tom at Bill Shepherd let a few of us play with their new 5.0
If you think about it, the same can be said for the Boss 302. Pretty much the same suspension hardware, just gone through with a fine toothcombe to produce the best handling production Mustang ever
It's plainly in the detail which is why the Roush is faster round a circuit than the Saleen and why a 5.0 GT can almost match an M3. It will be down to matching damper and spring rates (the early cars are just too soft) and improving bushings. I suspect the weights of the respective components such as engine and gearbox and brakes may also make a slight difference.
The point, however, is all thjis can easily be done to the earlier cars and I'm sure the adjustable D-Specs are better than the stock FRPP dampers so theoretically, if you know what you're doing, you can set a car up to be better.
In reality, of course, for most drivers, the differences will not be important. TT has been more than happy with his stocker over the many thousands of yards he has driven this year (yeah, yeah, I can talk....).
It's a funny car, the Mustang (as is the Camaro). Every logical bone in my body says I should sell mine. It is an encumbrance, a liability, I don't use it and I don't need it but damn, it's nice to have and I'm never sure that if push came to shove I could or would sell.
The point, however, is all thjis can easily be done to the earlier cars and I'm sure the adjustable D-Specs are better than the stock FRPP dampers so theoretically, if you know what you're doing, you can set a car up to be better.
In reality, of course, for most drivers, the differences will not be important. TT has been more than happy with his stocker over the many thousands of yards he has driven this year (yeah, yeah, I can talk....).
It's a funny car, the Mustang (as is the Camaro). Every logical bone in my body says I should sell mine. It is an encumbrance, a liability, I don't use it and I don't need it but damn, it's nice to have and I'm never sure that if push came to shove I could or would sell.
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