2.0dt vs 1.9 TD Vs 2.2 TD
Discussion
For performance stats I'd look at http://www.parkers.co.uk/
I've got the 2.0dti in a Vectra. The only benefit as far as I'm aware over the 1.9 is it's chain driven cam rather than cam belt. So far less likely to snap....not that the 1.9 snaps a lot anyway.
1.9s seem to suffer more from EGR valve problems.
Likely to be lots more info on here: http://www.vectra-c.com/forum/
I've got the 2.0dti in a Vectra. The only benefit as far as I'm aware over the 1.9 is it's chain driven cam rather than cam belt. So far less likely to snap....not that the 1.9 snaps a lot anyway.
1.9s seem to suffer more from EGR valve problems.
Likely to be lots more info on here: http://www.vectra-c.com/forum/
Magictrousers said:
The 2.0 and 2.2 DTi engines are a bit older than the 1.9 CDTi's, fitted to pre 04 cars, apart from a few 2.2 Auto's.
In my experience, the DTi's can suffer from problems with Fuel pumps (horrifically expensive to replace) various electronic gremlins, problems with vacuum hoses, boost sensors, EGR valves can get sooted up and the injector leak off pipes which cause bad starting. Also the boost and intercooler hoses can split or blow off causing massive plumes of smoke and poor performance. Typical real world economy, anything between 38-50 mpg. On a run to Brussels in my old 2.2, at motorway speeds, with the aircon on, I got an average of 46mpg.
The only thing putting me off recomending one, my 2.2 had almost £4000 worth of parts and labour under warranty. Two turbo's, Various Switches, sensors and pipes had to be replaced, it actually spent 6 weeks back at Luton after I threatened to drive it through the dealers plate glass window if it went wrong again......
Tuning options, if that way inclined, are limited. Only remaps or very expensive tuning boxes. Remember that this will put extra demand on the fuel pump (Bosch VP44).
The 1.9's have a bit of a reputation accross the forums for unreliability. To be honest, it's not a problem I've encountered, but there are stories of cars needing replacement inlet manifolds and swirl valves, DMF's are weak (I've had one in mine) again the EGR valves can soot up and jam, injector looms can go west causing bad running and if the car has a DPF (55 on do) they can clog if the car is stuck in town. There is an outstanding recall on Alternators for some model years too. In my experience of a 1.9 150 manual, I'm averaging just below 40 mpg. My dad has a 55 plate auto without the DPF, he's getting just shy of 50, however, he does a lot of motorway cruising.
The 1.9 is a very tuneable car, boxes are available on the net for £60, all they do is fool the ECU into thinking the common rail has low pressure, so shoves more fuel through. It gives impressive power gains, but seems to have a lot of coincidental problems. Properly remapped cars do go well and fuel consumption improves.
Don't forget there is a 3.0 V6 diesel available. It's an Isuzu derived unit, which can have issues with the fuel valves in the engine mounted pump, these can be costly to fix, due to the amount of labour. It seems that anything approaching 100k miles is more likely to have the issue. But to be fair, they seem to be quite isolated incidents. Economy, expect 32 - 40 mpg, depending on gearbox and driving style.
At the age of cars you are looking at, it will probably be a facelift, with the 1.9 engine. Best spec IMO is Design, or if you can find one, Exclusiv. All have sat nav, some will have a colour display, most a monochrome. Elite is top trim with Leather and climate control. Even the Base model is pretty well specced.
Of the lot, I really like my 1.9. Like I say, I've had no issues with it, apart from the DMF, which was exchanged under warranty with no fuss whatsoever (perhaps they remember my previous car..)
As for the rest of the car, I find the Signum is better built than the Vectra, the ride and handling is improved by the longer wheelbase. Also, I get a lot of satisfaction from the uninitiated scoffers, who are genuinely surprised how good the cars are, once they've actually based their opinion on experience and not heresay.
Any other help I can be, ask! I'll help where I can.
In my experience, the DTi's can suffer from problems with Fuel pumps (horrifically expensive to replace) various electronic gremlins, problems with vacuum hoses, boost sensors, EGR valves can get sooted up and the injector leak off pipes which cause bad starting. Also the boost and intercooler hoses can split or blow off causing massive plumes of smoke and poor performance. Typical real world economy, anything between 38-50 mpg. On a run to Brussels in my old 2.2, at motorway speeds, with the aircon on, I got an average of 46mpg.
The only thing putting me off recomending one, my 2.2 had almost £4000 worth of parts and labour under warranty. Two turbo's, Various Switches, sensors and pipes had to be replaced, it actually spent 6 weeks back at Luton after I threatened to drive it through the dealers plate glass window if it went wrong again......
Tuning options, if that way inclined, are limited. Only remaps or very expensive tuning boxes. Remember that this will put extra demand on the fuel pump (Bosch VP44).
The 1.9's have a bit of a reputation accross the forums for unreliability. To be honest, it's not a problem I've encountered, but there are stories of cars needing replacement inlet manifolds and swirl valves, DMF's are weak (I've had one in mine) again the EGR valves can soot up and jam, injector looms can go west causing bad running and if the car has a DPF (55 on do) they can clog if the car is stuck in town. There is an outstanding recall on Alternators for some model years too. In my experience of a 1.9 150 manual, I'm averaging just below 40 mpg. My dad has a 55 plate auto without the DPF, he's getting just shy of 50, however, he does a lot of motorway cruising.
The 1.9 is a very tuneable car, boxes are available on the net for £60, all they do is fool the ECU into thinking the common rail has low pressure, so shoves more fuel through. It gives impressive power gains, but seems to have a lot of coincidental problems. Properly remapped cars do go well and fuel consumption improves.
Don't forget there is a 3.0 V6 diesel available. It's an Isuzu derived unit, which can have issues with the fuel valves in the engine mounted pump, these can be costly to fix, due to the amount of labour. It seems that anything approaching 100k miles is more likely to have the issue. But to be fair, they seem to be quite isolated incidents. Economy, expect 32 - 40 mpg, depending on gearbox and driving style.
At the age of cars you are looking at, it will probably be a facelift, with the 1.9 engine. Best spec IMO is Design, or if you can find one, Exclusiv. All have sat nav, some will have a colour display, most a monochrome. Elite is top trim with Leather and climate control. Even the Base model is pretty well specced.
Of the lot, I really like my 1.9. Like I say, I've had no issues with it, apart from the DMF, which was exchanged under warranty with no fuss whatsoever (perhaps they remember my previous car..)
As for the rest of the car, I find the Signum is better built than the Vectra, the ride and handling is improved by the longer wheelbase. Also, I get a lot of satisfaction from the uninitiated scoffers, who are genuinely surprised how good the cars are, once they've actually based their opinion on experience and not heresay.
Any other help I can be, ask! I'll help where I can.
No problems.
They seem to be holding reasonable money at the moment, which suits me obviously, however, 18 months ago, we paid £4600 for the old mans 55 plate with mid 40's mileage.
They are around, just need weedling out as they weren't as pouplar when they were built as they seem to be now they're discontinued, if you see what I mean!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2009...
Looks good,
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2009...
They seem to be holding reasonable money at the moment, which suits me obviously, however, 18 months ago, we paid £4600 for the old mans 55 plate with mid 40's mileage.
They are around, just need weedling out as they weren't as pouplar when they were built as they seem to be now they're discontinued, if you see what I mean!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2009...
Looks good,
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2009...
Edited by Magictrousers on Saturday 2nd January 18:07
Magictrousers said:
No problems.
They seem to be holding reasonable money at the moment, which suits me obviously, however, 18 months ago, we paid £4600 for the old mans 55 plate with mid 40's mileage.
They are around, just need weedling out as they weren't as pouplar when they were built as they seem to be now they're discontinued, if you see what I mean!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2009...
Looks good,
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2009...
Sound like your Dad got one hell of deal.They seem to be holding reasonable money at the moment, which suits me obviously, however, 18 months ago, we paid £4600 for the old mans 55 plate with mid 40's mileage.
They are around, just need weedling out as they weren't as pouplar when they were built as they seem to be now they're discontinued, if you see what I mean!
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2009...
Looks good,
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2009...
Edited by Magictrousers on Saturday 2nd January 18:07
I'm travelling oop north tomorrow to have a look at a 55 plate 1.9 (150) Design with 39K miles for £7K.
Have the residuals really firmed up that much?
Yeah, we lucked in, bought it from a trader who normally bought conventional Vectras or Mongdeos, he bought this one in to test the water, just as the markets collapsed. As a result, he wanted shot. I could tell it was a goodun, with a massive history file despite its tender years. So I used the non functioning AC as a bartering point, flexed a wad of twenties, job done!
Looking at the residuals, I think all cars have moved upwards, the Signum has a bit of a following as a tow car (no pun intended) and typically, now they've been discontinued, people seem to have suddenly taken notice of them, which has helped values upwards.
I know bigger Vauxhalls aren't money in the bank with regards to residuals, but I was a bit worried about mine this time last year. Looking at them now, I'm quite happy again!
Looking at the residuals, I think all cars have moved upwards, the Signum has a bit of a following as a tow car (no pun intended) and typically, now they've been discontinued, people seem to have suddenly taken notice of them, which has helped values upwards.
I know bigger Vauxhalls aren't money in the bank with regards to residuals, but I was a bit worried about mine this time last year. Looking at them now, I'm quite happy again!
Just make sure the inlet manifold isn't leaking gunge, that's the sort of miles they start giving trouble. You're facing about a grand to replace the manifold and EGR if they're goosed.
The 1.9 8v (120hp) is more reliable.
The 2.0DTi and 2.2DTi are generally better engines, but can suffer injection pump problems when used with poor diesel.
The 1.9 8v (120hp) is more reliable.
The 2.0DTi and 2.2DTi are generally better engines, but can suffer injection pump problems when used with poor diesel.
If you felt inclined, it can be upgraded to a colour display, just trawl 'auction sites' for a 'divorced' display. Pretty much plug and play, just needs to be programmed up on Tech2.
Well, I'm pleased for you, if you enjoy it half as much as I do mine, you're onto a winner!
Well, I'm pleased for you, if you enjoy it half as much as I do mine, you're onto a winner!
Edited by Magictrousers on Tuesday 5th January 22:14
I bought a 2.0T petrol Design back at the very end of december and the Signum is a wonderful car 
They seem to have slightly better residuals than the Vectras and IMO a better build quality. I paid £7500 for it with 40k miles on a '56 plate, and got p/x £5500 for my 1.8VVTi Vectra with 26k on an '06 plate, which had less toys, and this was from a main VX dealer so obviously the p/x price was a lot less than I could have got for a private sale.
The issues with the 1.9CDTi aren't actually that common, but if you go to a car forum (for example vectra-c.com) then people will usually post if they have a problem more often than they will if there's nothing wrong! - also if you look at that forum there's a bloke called Maverick who's done well over 200k miles using 1.9CDTi's and never had any problems, his car was also featured in Total Vauxhall mag a few months ago.
If you are getting a facelift Signum then IMO go for the Design, you get quite a few toys inside, and you get the sporty suspension from the SRi Vectra, and tinted windows. The Elite has more toys inside but will cost more, and IMO the interior toys are easier and cheaper to fit than suspension kits. Plus you pay more for the Elite
They seem to have slightly better residuals than the Vectras and IMO a better build quality. I paid £7500 for it with 40k miles on a '56 plate, and got p/x £5500 for my 1.8VVTi Vectra with 26k on an '06 plate, which had less toys, and this was from a main VX dealer so obviously the p/x price was a lot less than I could have got for a private sale.The issues with the 1.9CDTi aren't actually that common, but if you go to a car forum (for example vectra-c.com) then people will usually post if they have a problem more often than they will if there's nothing wrong! - also if you look at that forum there's a bloke called Maverick who's done well over 200k miles using 1.9CDTi's and never had any problems, his car was also featured in Total Vauxhall mag a few months ago.
If you are getting a facelift Signum then IMO go for the Design, you get quite a few toys inside, and you get the sporty suspension from the SRi Vectra, and tinted windows. The Elite has more toys inside but will cost more, and IMO the interior toys are easier and cheaper to fit than suspension kits. Plus you pay more for the Elite
Edited by maurauth on Tuesday 9th February 04:33
Thanks Phil.
The ride in the Design is a little firmer than some would like but I prefer it that way.
Just completed 1500 miles and other then the gear knob falling off (cured with blutack) a cracked windscreen (worries because I can't see any stone damage and the crack seems to emanate fro the edge) and some occasional momentary creaks on suspension, its going well.
In fairness, I do tend to listen for every little noise with each'new' car I get so I'm probably being over fussy.
Turbo lag is more than I'd like but that's manageable.
The ride in the Design is a little firmer than some would like but I prefer it that way.
Just completed 1500 miles and other then the gear knob falling off (cured with blutack) a cracked windscreen (worries because I can't see any stone damage and the crack seems to emanate fro the edge) and some occasional momentary creaks on suspension, its going well.
In fairness, I do tend to listen for every little noise with each'new' car I get so I'm probably being over fussy.
Turbo lag is more than I'd like but that's manageable.
No problem, Alan.
I do also enjoy the ride a bit, sure at the moment whilst we're all still recovering with the pot holes it can be a bit harsh but there's times that it makes up for itself
I can't really comment on the diesel engine's turbo lag, never driven one, but the 2.0t petrol vecs/siggys have nearly no lag.
Ref the gear knob, if it still keeps pulling off then turn it 20 degrees and stick it back on as it's to do with the friction fit and the teeth wearing away. But yeah I shat myself when it happened the first time, coming off a roundabout, pulling into second and "OH f
k" off comes the gear knob and flies underneath the passenger seat.
If you haven't already then I would seriously recommend joining vectra-c.com, there's plenty of fantastic information on there and if you pay for full membership- you can get some good bargains in the for sale section, some good discounts from companies and group buys.
I do also enjoy the ride a bit, sure at the moment whilst we're all still recovering with the pot holes it can be a bit harsh but there's times that it makes up for itself
I can't really comment on the diesel engine's turbo lag, never driven one, but the 2.0t petrol vecs/siggys have nearly no lag.
Ref the gear knob, if it still keeps pulling off then turn it 20 degrees and stick it back on as it's to do with the friction fit and the teeth wearing away. But yeah I shat myself when it happened the first time, coming off a roundabout, pulling into second and "OH f
k" off comes the gear knob and flies underneath the passenger seat.If you haven't already then I would seriously recommend joining vectra-c.com, there's plenty of fantastic information on there and if you pay for full membership- you can get some good bargains in the for sale section, some good discounts from companies and group buys.
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