Less understeer?
Discussion
Hi,I'm from Belgium where the VX220 is called the Opel Speedster.
I just sold my S2000 ans i'm intrested in a 2nd hand VX220.
The standard VX220 (not the Turbo version) is known for it's mild understeer (to say the least).
How can i kill the understeer without spending to much money on it?
A slightly bigger tyre at the front?
Also, what things should i look out for when buying one 2nd hand?
What are it's shortcomings?
Are there any differences from in yearmodels from 01' 02' and 03'?
Any help would be welcome.
Greets from Belgium.
I just sold my S2000 ans i'm intrested in a 2nd hand VX220.
The standard VX220 (not the Turbo version) is known for it's mild understeer (to say the least).
How can i kill the understeer without spending to much money on it?
A slightly bigger tyre at the front?
Also, what things should i look out for when buying one 2nd hand?
What are it's shortcomings?
Are there any differences from in yearmodels from 01' 02' and 03'?
Any help would be welcome.
Greets from Belgium.
Get VXR size wheels (16 X 195) at the front and that will improve it. you could also get the geometry set up to improve the understeer.
Lots of info on this at www.vx220.org.uk/forums/
Lots of info on this at www.vx220.org.uk/forums/
Edited by pauljoecoe on Saturday 24th June 19:14
I think the point code monkey is making is that you can't drive a VX (or any light mid engined car) in the same was as you can a front engined car.....thats why 99% of people complain about understeer.
The set up on a VX means it will understeer a little bit more than the equivalent Elise but IMHO it doesn't understeer a lot.
Driving training will teach you how to maximise the grip available and show that in the right hands understeer isn't a word that will spring to mind. A wider front tyre will generate more grip yes but it will just mean the inevitable accident will happen at higher speed. As with S1 lizzies.
I'm not a driving god but I am spending money improving myself and I wouldn't even think about coaxing the VX into a drift until you've mastered the basics. A session with Andy Walsh or similar will truely open your eyes to what these cars can do "out of the box" with no mods.
EDIT : Don't mean that to sound nasty, I would just suggest living with the car, learning it's habits before you decide to spend money on it. It's very different to an S2k.
The set up on a VX means it will understeer a little bit more than the equivalent Elise but IMHO it doesn't understeer a lot.
Driving training will teach you how to maximise the grip available and show that in the right hands understeer isn't a word that will spring to mind. A wider front tyre will generate more grip yes but it will just mean the inevitable accident will happen at higher speed. As with S1 lizzies.
I'm not a driving god but I am spending money improving myself and I wouldn't even think about coaxing the VX into a drift until you've mastered the basics. A session with Andy Walsh or similar will truely open your eyes to what these cars can do "out of the box" with no mods.
EDIT : Don't mean that to sound nasty, I would just suggest living with the car, learning it's habits before you decide to spend money on it. It's very different to an S2k.
Edited by Lazydonkey on Tuesday 1st August 08:37
Lazydonkey said:
EDIT : Don't mean that to sound nasty, I would just suggest living with the car, learning it's habits before you decide to spend money on it. It's very different to an S2k.
Edited by Lazydonkey on Tuesday 1st August 08:37
I admit i didn't spend enough time to learn how the car reacts at the limit.
I don't drive like a maniac in the streets where i live and the engine still needs a bit of running in before i'll take it to a parking lot and test how it will behave.
I assumed from since i heard it understeers i was allready making future plans for the car.
The dealer where i have bought my VX said he has seen the car's grip being tested at a closed roundabout.
The driver was increasing it's speed and it seems the front wheels did lose grip before the back wheels did.
PS: I love to hear from your future driving experiences from Andy Walsh.
Edited by RCduck7 on Tuesday 1st August 14:16
On a roundabout when provoked yes the front will loose grip first........to me that suggests it's got great traction??? If the rears lost grip before the fronts then people would complain it was dangerous surely ?
The Andy Walsh session was the best £150 i've ever spent! Hightly recommended.
The Andy Walsh session was the best £150 i've ever spent! Hightly recommended.
Lazydonkey said:
On a roundabout when provoked yes the front will loose grip first........to me that suggests it's got great traction??? If the rears lost grip before the fronts then people would complain it was dangerous surely ?
For sure it's got me thinking.
As soon as i get around to testing the car (propably next week) i will let know my findings.
You've got to remember that in the VX (unlike the S2000) you don't have the engine sitting over the front wheels pushing down and giving lots of front end grip, similarly as the engine is behind the driver when the back does step out it has quite a lot of momentum behind it, and due to the high central weight distribution it can break out very quickly as well.
What this means is that your driving style must reflect this by ensuring that you understand weight transfer principles. You can almost completely erradicate understeer by turning in with the transfered weight on the front (i.e. approaching a corner, turn in at the point where you release the brake pedal so the weight is still forward). The roundabout example you gave doesn't do this as the car will be balanced F/R so of course the front then slips out due to the lack of weight. Having the back slip out in that situation would be ridiculously dangerous as on a track or approacing the corner it would be uncontrolable with the weight forward leving the back incredibly light!
This along with the large momentum when the back eventually does step out means that drifting a car like the VX is an incredibly hard thing to do. If drifting is your thing I'd recommend looking for a different car (front engined, rear WD), but if high agility and precise, sharp turn in and high corner speed is you thing, you'll not go far wrong with the VX.
What I would add though is that the geometry on the majority of cars when they left the factory was incredibly erratic and most (mine included) had a ridiculous amount of understeer dialed in - more than the FWD VW Golf I was replacing :-o Having the geometry looked at and set up properly fixed this and only cost about £120. It was the best value modification I ever did. Fortunately the majority of VX's have now had their geometry tweaked so finding one with the setup I originally had would be (thankfully) pretty difficult now. Of course putting wider front wheels/tyres would also help (but not solve the issue), but this is an expensive fix to what should be avoided almost entirely by driving this type of car properly. As mentioned in previous posts, driver training should be considered almost mandatory if you've never driven this type of car before and it's also a huge amount of fun. The Andy Walsh day is good, and Plans Motorsport's 1-on-1 training is excellent. Ben Elliot is also getting a lot of good reports at the moment so you have several options.
What this means is that your driving style must reflect this by ensuring that you understand weight transfer principles. You can almost completely erradicate understeer by turning in with the transfered weight on the front (i.e. approaching a corner, turn in at the point where you release the brake pedal so the weight is still forward). The roundabout example you gave doesn't do this as the car will be balanced F/R so of course the front then slips out due to the lack of weight. Having the back slip out in that situation would be ridiculously dangerous as on a track or approacing the corner it would be uncontrolable with the weight forward leving the back incredibly light!
This along with the large momentum when the back eventually does step out means that drifting a car like the VX is an incredibly hard thing to do. If drifting is your thing I'd recommend looking for a different car (front engined, rear WD), but if high agility and precise, sharp turn in and high corner speed is you thing, you'll not go far wrong with the VX.
What I would add though is that the geometry on the majority of cars when they left the factory was incredibly erratic and most (mine included) had a ridiculous amount of understeer dialed in - more than the FWD VW Golf I was replacing :-o Having the geometry looked at and set up properly fixed this and only cost about £120. It was the best value modification I ever did. Fortunately the majority of VX's have now had their geometry tweaked so finding one with the setup I originally had would be (thankfully) pretty difficult now. Of course putting wider front wheels/tyres would also help (but not solve the issue), but this is an expensive fix to what should be avoided almost entirely by driving this type of car properly. As mentioned in previous posts, driver training should be considered almost mandatory if you've never driven this type of car before and it's also a huge amount of fun. The Andy Walsh day is good, and Plans Motorsport's 1-on-1 training is excellent. Ben Elliot is also getting a lot of good reports at the moment so you have several options.
RCduck7 said:
Lazydonkey said:
On a roundabout when provoked yes the front will loose grip first........to me that suggests it's got great traction??? If the rears lost grip before the fronts then people would complain it was dangerous surely ?
For sure it's got me thinking.
As soon as i get around to testing the car (propably next week) i will let know my findings.
Well, i have totally forgotten to reply to my findings of the vx220's behaviour.
Not sure you lot are still remember this or come bach here.
I did post my findings about the car's behaviour in comparison to an S2000 on www.S2000.com so i cut and paste it...
Is a stock S2000 a good drift car? Not sure...
What i do know, is that it easily provokes oversteer.
Sometimes becausse i turn in sharp or sometimes becausse i applied a bit to much power.
But that doesn't mean i was drifting.
Never tried it on a parkinglot that was big enough to do this safe to get the hang out of it(i regret not doing this now that i sold it).
I understand that drifting means to get a car in oversteer and hold it there... a bit longer than the sudden snap oversteer that only lasts a few seconds and most of us at some point encountered in a car like the S2000.
My current car, a vx220 (a lotus elise derivative as some call it) seems to have more understeer, at least when it's dry.
I really have to push it harder and further in the corners to oversteer and it seems this car mainly gets in oversteer by tuning it hard AND giving it more power.
That way it does feel like a more safer car for the unexperienced driver that doesn't have the guts to tetst it's limits.
Does that mean a vx220 goes faster around corners?
With my humble experience i'm not in a position to judge that.
RCduck7 said:
My current car, a vx220 (a lotus elise derivative as some call it) seems to have more understeer, at least when it's dry.
I really have to push it harder and further in the corners to oversteer and it seems this car mainly gets in oversteer by turning it hard AND giving it more power.
That way it does feel like a more safer car for the inexperienced driver that doesn't have the guts to test it's limits.
Sounds you might get on well with a Car Limits/Walshy day. You won't be complaining about understeer after that, but the VX will never be a drift car.
Ben
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