VX vs. Elise S2
Discussion
What they said. 
Except - S2 Elise and the VX have the same roof, so no difference there. Looks of the VX grow on you, but mainly the VX is much more refined than the Elise (for want of a better way of putting it - it's not exactly comfy!). The K series engine in the Elise is rubbish.
S2 Elise or VXT, you just have to decide if you want to go fast, or look fast. S2 Elise vs NA VX, and it's down to the test drive. IMHO the S2 runs out of puff once you put it in third, whereas the VX keeps pulling.
Dan
Except - S2 Elise and the VX have the same roof, so no difference there. Looks of the VX grow on you, but mainly the VX is much more refined than the Elise (for want of a better way of putting it - it's not exactly comfy!). The K series engine in the Elise is rubbish.
S2 Elise or VXT, you just have to decide if you want to go fast, or look fast.
S2 Elise vs NA VX, and it's down to the test drive. IMHO the S2 runs out of puff once you put it in third, whereas the VX keeps pulling. Dan
I'm hoping to get a VX (NA) sometime near the end of this year, all things going well.. as said they're (MUCH) cheaper than an S2, and even if I could afford an S2, I'd only be happy if I had a toyota-engined one, 111R or Exige.. hmm just added another LARGE lump of cash to that side of the scales.. and even if I could afford a 111R (see a pattern coming on here?), I think I'd still prefer the larger capacity (0.4l extra remember!) more torquey nature of the VX lump.. oh, and if I could afford a 111R, I'd DEFINATELY buy a VXT! 
get the idea??
besides, the VX NA lump seems much more receptive to tuning than the K.. seen loads of threads on vx220.org about cars with pre-cat removed, full sports exhaust system, filter kit, re-map, and 170bhp! that and the torque from a 2.2 sounds like plenty for me, given the awesome handling and leight weight etc.. I'd spend any money I had after that (and maybe the nice speedline alloys) on driver-training, as that'd give you more benefit than anything else.. especially in a mid-engined car like the VX.
), I think I'd still prefer the larger capacity (0.4l extra remember!) more torquey nature of the VX lump.. oh, and if I could afford a 111R, I'd DEFINATELY buy a VXT! get the idea??
besides, the VX NA lump seems much more receptive to tuning than the K.. seen loads of threads on vx220.org about cars with pre-cat removed, full sports exhaust system, filter kit, re-map, and 170bhp! that and the torque from a 2.2 sounds like plenty for me, given the awesome handling and leight weight etc.. I'd spend any money I had after that (and maybe the nice speedline alloys) on driver-training, as that'd give you more benefit than anything else.. especially in a mid-engined car like the VX.
Pierscoe1 said:
I'm hoping to get a VX (NA) sometime near the end of this year, all things going well.. as said they're (MUCH) cheaper than an S2, and even if I could afford an S2, I'd only be happy if I had a toyota-engined one, 111R or Exige.. hmm just added another LARGE lump of cash to that side of the scales.. and even if I could afford a 111R (see a pattern coming on here?
get the idea??
besides, the VX NA lump seems much more receptive to tuning than the K.. seen loads of threads on vx220.org about cars with pre-cat removed, full sports exhaust system, filter kit, re-map, and 170bhp! that and the torque from a 2.2 sounds like plenty for me, given the awesome handling and leight weight etc.. I'd spend any money I had after that (and maybe the nice speedline alloys) on driver-training, as that'd give you more benefit than anything else.. especially in a mid-engined car like the VX.
Precisely what I should have come June!
your car is 
I'll be after a black one when the time comes.. although they seem to be rare as rocking horse p
o.. after that, can't decide between blue or red.. red looks really good with black wheels, is with the VXR, but then so does....
which exhaust are you going for? going to remove the pre-cat yourself?
eidted to ad: good to see some topics on here at long last.. since the last one a MONTH ago!! guess everyone must be over on vx.org
>> Edited by Pierscoe1 on Tuesday 12th April 23:25
I'll be after a black one when the time comes.. although they seem to be rare as rocking horse p
o.. after that, can't decide between blue or red.. red looks really good with black wheels, is with the VXR, but then so does.... which exhaust are you going for? going to remove the pre-cat yourself?
eidted to ad: good to see some topics on here at long last.. since the last one a MONTH ago!! guess everyone must be over on vx.org
>> Edited by Pierscoe1 on Tuesday 12th April 23:25
I have big respect for the VX, but rarely read an unbiased view between the VX and the Elise, so things to consider are:
Looks: A matter of personal taste, I love the look of both cars but I think the S2 has the edge, though I prefer the VX over the S1.
Lotus CHOSE the K series as it was light and unstressed.
Vauxhall really had no choice but to reach for the nearest Vectra and pull one out of there
Most people claim to buy these cars based on the handling. Amongst the VX community the NA owners are always harping on about their cars being better than the turbos, because they weighs less and therefore handle better. If that's the case why not buy the nearly 100kg lighter Elise?
The Elise also has large benefits in the unsprung weight dept. having much lighter alloys and hubs than the VX which uses Astra stuff.
The 17"'s on the front of the VX are for show over handling only (the VXR and Elise use more sensible 16" inch jobbies engineered for handling)
The ABS is almost a useless gimmick on the VX and most most owners implement switches to disable it. (there's a VXT software upgrade to improve this and the VXR has an apparently excellent 4 channel system like the 111R and Exige). The VX also has servo assisted brakes which may be more suited to some people.
From what I've read the Elise is quicker to 60 and the VX has a higher top speed of something like 3mph.
The Airbag in my opinion is one advantage of the VX over the Elise, after the US Elise I've no idea why Lotus don't include it on their latest cars.
The VX benefits from cheaper servicing and insurance. They are of course cheaper to buy, but don't seem to be holding their value as well as the Lotus.
The hood on the VX is the same as later S2 Elises and similar to the earlier S2 elise minus the tails. Both systems are massive improvments over the S1 Elise rag top.
The VX and S1 Elise hinged bonnets are much more useable than the removable panels in place on the S2. (there to save weight apparently)
As for reliablity the main problem the Elise has is head gasket failure, but remember you only read when people have problems on forums, its never happened to my S2. I'm always reading a number of things going wrong with the VX (Lotus built it after all ) so don't be led into thinking there is any significant difference.
At the end of the day, look at both, drive both and see what you prefer!
>> Edited by theRossatron on Wednesday 13th April 15:44
Looks: A matter of personal taste, I love the look of both cars but I think the S2 has the edge, though I prefer the VX over the S1.
Lotus CHOSE the K series as it was light and unstressed.
Vauxhall really had no choice but to reach for the nearest Vectra and pull one out of there
Most people claim to buy these cars based on the handling. Amongst the VX community the NA owners are always harping on about their cars being better than the turbos, because they weighs less and therefore handle better. If that's the case why not buy the nearly 100kg lighter Elise?
The Elise also has large benefits in the unsprung weight dept. having much lighter alloys and hubs than the VX which uses Astra stuff.
The 17"'s on the front of the VX are for show over handling only (the VXR and Elise use more sensible 16" inch jobbies engineered for handling)
The ABS is almost a useless gimmick on the VX and most most owners implement switches to disable it. (there's a VXT software upgrade to improve this and the VXR has an apparently excellent 4 channel system like the 111R and Exige). The VX also has servo assisted brakes which may be more suited to some people.
From what I've read the Elise is quicker to 60 and the VX has a higher top speed of something like 3mph.
The Airbag in my opinion is one advantage of the VX over the Elise, after the US Elise I've no idea why Lotus don't include it on their latest cars.
The VX benefits from cheaper servicing and insurance. They are of course cheaper to buy, but don't seem to be holding their value as well as the Lotus.
The hood on the VX is the same as later S2 Elises and similar to the earlier S2 elise minus the tails. Both systems are massive improvments over the S1 Elise rag top.
The VX and S1 Elise hinged bonnets are much more useable than the removable panels in place on the S2. (there to save weight apparently)
As for reliablity the main problem the Elise has is head gasket failure, but remember you only read when people have problems on forums, its never happened to my S2. I'm always reading a number of things going wrong with the VX (Lotus built it after all
) so don't be led into thinking there is any significant difference. At the end of the day, look at both, drive both and see what you prefer!
>> Edited by theRossatron on Wednesday 13th April 15:44
Can't resist a little baiting.
So, anyhow - Lotus "chose" the K series because it was cheap. They did, however, design the 2.2 unit in the NA VX, which is a reasonably light engine as it's made of aluminium.
NA VX's are "supposed" to handle better then the T's because there's less weight over the back (engine's lighter), and the suspension is set up to be a touch firmer.
No argument on the wheel front - the standard alloys aren't exactly lightweight, and neither are the hubs. Most owners DON'T have a switch to disable the ABS, but a few of the more hard-core track day bods have installed one. I can't really defend the ABS though, as it is pretty rubbish - lots of complaints about it on the VX board.
The NA VX's top speed is 136, which (from memory) is 8-10 mph above the Elise's. However, whilst the 0-60 is slightly slower, the VX can't hit 60 in second. I suspect 0-100 times are roughly the same, although the VX pulls much better in 3rd than the Elises I've driven.
Finally, don't believe all this balls about the VX loosing more money than the Elise. They're generally advertised at 2-3k under the same age Elise, but they were 3-4k cheaper to buy originally, so they're loosing money at the same rate.
Dan
So, anyhow - Lotus "chose" the K series because it was cheap. They did, however, design the 2.2 unit in the NA VX, which is a reasonably light engine as it's made of aluminium.
NA VX's are "supposed" to handle better then the T's because there's less weight over the back (engine's lighter), and the suspension is set up to be a touch firmer.
No argument on the wheel front - the standard alloys aren't exactly lightweight, and neither are the hubs. Most owners DON'T have a switch to disable the ABS, but a few of the more hard-core track day bods have installed one. I can't really defend the ABS though, as it is pretty rubbish - lots of complaints about it on the VX board.
The NA VX's top speed is 136, which (from memory) is 8-10 mph above the Elise's. However, whilst the 0-60 is slightly slower, the VX can't hit 60 in second. I suspect 0-100 times are roughly the same, although the VX pulls much better in 3rd than the Elises I've driven.
Finally, don't believe all this balls about the VX loosing more money than the Elise. They're generally advertised at 2-3k under the same age Elise, but they were 3-4k cheaper to buy originally, so they're loosing money at the same rate.
Dan
DanL said:
Can't resist a little baiting.
Me neither
DanL said:
So, anyhow - Lotus "chose" the K series because it was cheap. They did, however, design the 2.2 unit in the NA VX, which is a reasonably light engine as it's made of aluminium.
The K series is also aluminium, ok it may have been cheap too
DanL said:
NA VX's are "supposed" to handle better then the T's because there's less weight over the back (engine's lighter), and the suspension is set up to be a touch firmer.
My point here was, if thats the case then Elise wins hands down on that front.
DanL said:
The NA VX's top speed is 136, which (from memory) is 8-10 mph above the Elise's.
I have VX NA 130 and Elise 127. though figures vary wildly from place to place and pub to pub
. VX motor certainly has a bit more torque. DanL said:
Finally, don't believe all this balls about the VX loosing more money than the Elise. They're generally advertised at 2-3k under the same age Elise, but they were 3-4k cheaper to buy originally, so they're loosing money at the same rate.
Fair point! Though that £16k turbo is only a year old!? Can't say I'm not slightly tempted though.
theRossatron said:
stuff about weight
My point here was, if thats the case then Elise wins hands down on that front.
Yup, but from what I've heard the Elise S2 isn't as light as claimed.
Probably about 50kg in it though, so you get to carry a light passenger for free. theRossatron said:
I have VX NA 130 and Elise 127. though figures vary wildly from place to place and pub to pub
130?! Seems a touch low! Vauxhall claim 136 - Muncher may be able to shed some light here, as his VMax runs might give an indication. Not sure it'll have maxed out tho'.
theRossatron said:2 years old... It is by FAR the cheapest turbo I've seen tho' - a symptom of being stuck out on Guernsey, I guess.
Finally, don't believe all this balls about the VX loosing more money than the Elise.
Fair point! Though that £16k turbo is only a year old!? Can't say I'm not slightly tempted though.
Dan
The VX220 NA has a top speed of 136mph which is entirely plausible considering the gearing and peak power at 5500rpm. The Elise s2 has a top speed of 125 mph (127 was the s1 since it had a longer geared 5th).
To be honest the Elise realistically struggles to top 120mph, have video footage of being driven round hethel by one of the instructors and the S2 got to 120mph and stopped - nothing more left in it at all.
I also remember hearing about an Elise S1 at Bruntingthorpe that could only top 116mph on the two mile straight!! The VX benefits from more torque than power, very V8 like, and the torque peak is higher up the rev range (4000rpm V 3000rpm Elise) thus the car is able maintain a higher speed without the torque dipping off too much.
Incidently I disagree that the VX is a softer option that an Elise. I would compare the VX to the Elise 111S due to it being slightly easier to drive through the more predictable handling (think more understeer) and it is slightly more comfy than a standard Elise setup.
The torque of the 2.2 really is obvious when you compare the two (150lb/ft V 122lb/ft) since the VX is faster more of the time making it much more drivable, but don't think it doesn't make it a 'special' experience. It's wonderful and I really do love my car to bits - even more than my old Elise!
>> Edited by charlieromeo on Thursday 14th April 12:25
To be honest the Elise realistically struggles to top 120mph, have video footage of being driven round hethel by one of the instructors and the S2 got to 120mph and stopped - nothing more left in it at all.
I also remember hearing about an Elise S1 at Bruntingthorpe that could only top 116mph on the two mile straight!! The VX benefits from more torque than power, very V8 like, and the torque peak is higher up the rev range (4000rpm V 3000rpm Elise) thus the car is able maintain a higher speed without the torque dipping off too much.
Incidently I disagree that the VX is a softer option that an Elise. I would compare the VX to the Elise 111S due to it being slightly easier to drive through the more predictable handling (think more understeer) and it is slightly more comfy than a standard Elise setup.
The torque of the 2.2 really is obvious when you compare the two (150lb/ft V 122lb/ft) since the VX is faster more of the time making it much more drivable, but don't think it doesn't make it a 'special' experience. It's wonderful and I really do love my car to bits - even more than my old Elise!
>> Edited by charlieromeo on Thursday 14th April 12:25
The topic is really classic and i don't believe numbers so precisely. Both cars are great. VX is probably the most reasonnable choice, looking at the price/performance and official points.
Elise is way better at look/fun, trackability and spirit, mainly due to the badge alone.
AS for sports cars, passion is over reason. This is probably why Hethel is now building the latest VX...which don't sell very well according to my biased sources
With respect to everybody,
Ben
Living at 2km from VX dealer and 120 from Lotus one and waiting for his new toy
Elise is way better at look/fun, trackability and spirit, mainly due to the badge alone.
AS for sports cars, passion is over reason. This is probably why Hethel is now building the latest VX...which don't sell very well according to my biased sources
With respect to everybody,
Ben
Living at 2km from VX dealer and 120 from Lotus one and waiting for his new toy
bher said:
The topic is really classic and i don't believe numbers so precisely.
Errr... if you are talking BHP, Torque or top speed then the numbers count. You can't just ignore them because you don't like how they add up! Engineering is all in the numbers don't you know, I should know as I'm qualified as one!
bher said:
Both cars are great. VX is probably the most reasonnable choice, looking at the price/performance and official points.
Elise is way better at look/fun, trackability and spirit, mainly due to the badge alone.
What does that actually mean? I'm not sure saying 'spirit' really quantifies as any kind of benefit for or against a car. Lotus designed both cars as fun cars and that's exactly what they are. In fact you could argue the VX is more of a Lotus as it has a Lotus designed engine sitting in the back of it.... does that mean it has more 'spirit'???
You have also got to realise that without the VX there would be no S2 Elise for Lotus to stick the badge onto.
bher said:
As for sports cars, passion is over reason. This is probably why Hethel is now building the latest VX...which don't sell very well according to my biased sources
As you probably aren't aware Lotus has always built the VX220 - it's a Lotus in all but name. The VX220 is a niche car sold in small numbers, it was concieved to improve the image of Opel/Vauxhall and it's worked.
I'm not sure why I'm writing this post to your inarticulate and vague answer but then again I'm biased too. So there....
>> Edited by charlieromeo on Thursday 14th April 15:27
Cooool
VX is a great car. No question. I don't want to raise the conflict. My post is more to say that the reason why poeple choose one or the other is not the diff in top speed or 0-60 or 0-100 because because for me this does not reflect the real thrill of driving a car.
I know that without mods my elise will NEVER really do the 0-60 times published by Lotus Just looking at real time in evo..... vx are superior in top speed, torque and so BUT these are only numbers, big saloon cars are doing better times but you wouldn't buy them, because sensations are not numbers...
I can't explain spirit as my english is not that good aswell could you explain "inarticulate" I can't translate it.
I really know that vx are done by Lotus, and thank vauxhaul/opel for the help and money they spend to improve engineering on S2.
just to keep in touch
Ben
VX is a great car. No question. I don't want to raise the conflict. My post is more to say that the reason why poeple choose one or the other is not the diff in top speed or 0-60 or 0-100 because because for me this does not reflect the real thrill of driving a car.
I know that without mods my elise will NEVER really do the 0-60 times published by Lotus
Just looking at real time in evo..... vx are superior in top speed, torque and so BUT these are only numbers, big saloon cars are doing better times but you wouldn't buy them, because sensations are not numbers... I can't explain spirit as my english is not that good aswell could you explain "inarticulate" I can't translate it.
I really know that vx are done by Lotus, and thank vauxhaul/opel for the help and money they spend to improve engineering on S2.
just to keep in touch
Ben
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