Combo 1.3 CDTI Problems!
Discussion
good evening everyone, im after some advice about my dads combo 1.3 CDTI
its a 56 plate and really really struggles to start in the mornings, or when its been left for periods of time, takes a few turns of the key before it will catch, then stalls, then catches, stalls.
goes through this rigmerole about 4/5 times, then when it does catch, it idles at about 4/500 revs for about 10 seconds?
its really down on power before the turbo kicks in, you have to really rev it to make some power when pulling away.
it will stutter and the engine vibrates a fair bit and occasionaly it will really shudder as if its about to cut out and then emit a large cloud of black smoke!
has anyone heard of this before? we have fitted new glow plugs, new leakoff pipe between the injectors, and its had a new injector and seal on cylinder one, the new injector did fix it for about 20 miles, then it returned to its former poorly self
its also had the EGR unplugged.
any help will be much appreciated!
its a 56 plate and really really struggles to start in the mornings, or when its been left for periods of time, takes a few turns of the key before it will catch, then stalls, then catches, stalls.
goes through this rigmerole about 4/5 times, then when it does catch, it idles at about 4/500 revs for about 10 seconds?
its really down on power before the turbo kicks in, you have to really rev it to make some power when pulling away.
it will stutter and the engine vibrates a fair bit and occasionaly it will really shudder as if its about to cut out and then emit a large cloud of black smoke!
has anyone heard of this before? we have fitted new glow plugs, new leakoff pipe between the injectors, and its had a new injector and seal on cylinder one, the new injector did fix it for about 20 miles, then it returned to its former poorly self
its also had the EGR unplugged.
any help will be much appreciated!
I've just rebuilt one doing the same thing and had no end of troubles. It's the Fiat / Vauxhall engine (Z13DT) and has major faults with just about everything on it. BIG ADVICE........ Check the cam chain for slack!!!!!!!
These engines have a habit of losing tension and snapping cam shafts.
These engines also have a paper insert oil filter which clog and crumble which causes the oil feed pipe for the tensioner to block thus slackening on the cam chain and causing major engine failure. IGNORE the long life service intervals and do the oil every 9-12 thousand miles.
The one I had was running poor, loss of power and hard to start when cold which turned out to be the MAF sensor. It's located between the air filter and inlet and is a common failure. It reduces power when it fails and doesn't show up on an ECU scan. I'd try that first by unplugging it and driving it after turning the ignition off first. That'll reset the ECU and when you start it up you'll notice it immediately. It'll try to power up then switch to limp mode again as you're driving. You can get tech about it and test the ohms through it but that you'll have to look up.
If it's starting fine and the chain is tight, see if it starts again when running hot. If it doesn't check the relay for the glow plugs or put a test light on the plugs and check how long they are lighting for. It should be between 5-10 seconds if working correctly. If that fails check the seal around the diesel filter. They often don't get changed and can sometimes be incorrectly fitted at service. Make sure the filter is secured tight too as if it draws in air it'll be a pain to get it started and could be the route of your troubles also.
These engines are (as described by someone else on here) as more trouble than they're worth and avoid like the plague!!! It's not a case of if, more like WHEN they go wrong.
It's worth checking the timing chain out as there's a re-call on them from I believe '54 on. You'll hear it rattling if it is running loose. If it is, get it sorted or be prepared to pay over £400 just for the cam, then there's the rockers, chain set, gaskets, labour etc. It'll set you back well over a grand!!!!!
Hope that helps.
These engines have a habit of losing tension and snapping cam shafts.
These engines also have a paper insert oil filter which clog and crumble which causes the oil feed pipe for the tensioner to block thus slackening on the cam chain and causing major engine failure. IGNORE the long life service intervals and do the oil every 9-12 thousand miles.
The one I had was running poor, loss of power and hard to start when cold which turned out to be the MAF sensor. It's located between the air filter and inlet and is a common failure. It reduces power when it fails and doesn't show up on an ECU scan. I'd try that first by unplugging it and driving it after turning the ignition off first. That'll reset the ECU and when you start it up you'll notice it immediately. It'll try to power up then switch to limp mode again as you're driving. You can get tech about it and test the ohms through it but that you'll have to look up.
If it's starting fine and the chain is tight, see if it starts again when running hot. If it doesn't check the relay for the glow plugs or put a test light on the plugs and check how long they are lighting for. It should be between 5-10 seconds if working correctly. If that fails check the seal around the diesel filter. They often don't get changed and can sometimes be incorrectly fitted at service. Make sure the filter is secured tight too as if it draws in air it'll be a pain to get it started and could be the route of your troubles also.
These engines are (as described by someone else on here) as more trouble than they're worth and avoid like the plague!!! It's not a case of if, more like WHEN they go wrong.
It's worth checking the timing chain out as there's a re-call on them from I believe '54 on. You'll hear it rattling if it is running loose. If it is, get it sorted or be prepared to pay over £400 just for the cam, then there's the rockers, chain set, gaskets, labour etc. It'll set you back well over a grand!!!!!
Hope that helps.
thats fantastic advice! just what we needed to hear! 
he picked up a chain kit from CES last week, and a new oil filter/oil etc
we have spent the day today ripping it apart on the driveway, the oil filter was starting to go, and you could see the bits in the pickup for the timing chain!
the belt was looser than a loose thing on a loose day, and the tensioner had around 1/2mm extrusion left on it,
we fitted the new sprokets, chain, guides and tensioner and there was barely any movement in the tensioner, which goes to show jus how much the chain had streched!
all back together and although its running quieter, its still juddering and showing signs of the MAF so ive told him to pick one up on monday! should be all sorted by then!
thank you for your advice! i owe u a virtual pint (:
he picked up a chain kit from CES last week, and a new oil filter/oil etc
we have spent the day today ripping it apart on the driveway, the oil filter was starting to go, and you could see the bits in the pickup for the timing chain!
the belt was looser than a loose thing on a loose day, and the tensioner had around 1/2mm extrusion left on it,
we fitted the new sprokets, chain, guides and tensioner and there was barely any movement in the tensioner, which goes to show jus how much the chain had streched!
all back together and although its running quieter, its still juddering and showing signs of the MAF so ive told him to pick one up on monday! should be all sorted by then!
thank you for your advice! i owe u a virtual pint (:
Glad that the advice helped. 
I had a few pointers from some on here and the biggest doubt was which engine it actually was. The MAF sensor is as good as a certain bet but if you want a guarantee, buy a kettle!! 
lol
Just another word of advice too,
the crank pulley bolt has a habit of coming undone even though it's left hand threaded. 
MAKE SURE you torque it up and at least use some thread tight or it'll come loose, throw the timing out and snap the rockers. 
Not a biggy, but getting the injectors out can be and believe me, they'll set you back £400 each and you will need the seats cleaned and the best way is to do all 4 at the same time. It'll leave you 
if it happens.
Fix
It
Again
Tomorrow
Someone
the t
t that had the idea of employing the only people in history who made their 
with more reverse gears than forward thrust. 
I had a few pointers from some on here and the biggest doubt was which engine it actually was. The MAF sensor is as good as a certain bet but if you want a guarantee, buy a kettle!! lolJust another word of advice too,
the crank pulley bolt has a habit of coming undone even though it's left hand threaded. MAKE SURE you torque it up and at least use some thread tight or it'll come loose, throw the timing out and snap the rockers. Not a biggy, but getting the injectors out can be and believe me, they'll set you back £400 each and you will need the seats cleaned and the best way is to do all 4 at the same time. It'll leave you if it happens. Fix
It
Again
Tomorrow
Someone
the tt that had the idea of employing the only people in history who made their with more reverse gears than forward thrust. haha top man!
he ended up ordering a new MAF from online, as ones from factors were 130+
i will double check the crank bolt when im next up there, i read somewhere it needed 210 torque, but i just tightend it to FT. so will be worth a re check! especially with all the mileage it does.
and yes, Fiat, what a joke, why vaux couldnt just use a vaux engine! i dont understand!
he ended up ordering a new MAF from online, as ones from factors were 130+
i will double check the crank bolt when im next up there, i read somewhere it needed 210 torque, but i just tightend it to FT. so will be worth a re check! especially with all the mileage it does.
and yes, Fiat, what a joke, why vaux couldnt just use a vaux engine! i dont understand!
GM went bust and they were the main supplier to vauxhall in a nutshell. I just did an insignia last week that has a 2L Fiat lump in it. They have a common fault with the EGR valve casing cracking. easy to fix and made of plastic, but, you have to buy the whole assembly. £530 with the VAT for what is essentially a plastic cup with bolt holes.
I feel for you! I know how frustrating these things can be!! Did you time it up correctly when you did the chain? There is a blanking plug behind the rear cam cover box and a hole in the gearbox bell housing to lock the crank. If you get it just a tooth out it will run without making a noise but hold back when the timing is out. If you imagine injecting fuel just a bit too early or late it will have the same effect as a petrol and advance / retard the combustion. To get the blanking plug off at the back you'll have to remove the fuel supply lines at the injectors, the wiring loom, the air intake pipes and most of what's on the top lid. Then you'll see a 8 or 10 mm hex bolt hole in the blanking plug. Just guessing at the cam being in place is where many fall flat. I used an M12 bolt to locate the cam and a long centre punch to lock the crank. Reiterating, if you get it just out you'll have no luck getting it to run spot on.
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/320...
If you can see this picture you'll see the bolt head that I used to time it up at the top left of the picture, just to the left of the black pipe.
Where did you get the MAF sensor from? Cheap ones are often faulty. If you try Euro Car Parts they will supply you with a genuine Bosche one at half the price normally if you're trade. I would say there are the first two pointers. MAF sensors are generally the first point of call when the engine runs fine but keeps switching to limp mode. Also check the EGR if it has one. (too long ago to remember if they have one or not to be honest). They have a habit of getting clogged up with smoke and carbon deposits which can sometimes be remedied by a straight forward clean up and re-fit.
I'd just check the timing to start with if I were you. It's the worst case scenario and for the sake of half hour work you get piece of mind. Start by turning the crank until your punch locks the crank then check the cam. if it isn't absolutely in the centre of the aperture then loosen the bottom pulley bolt, remove the camshaft bolt cover plate on the timing chain cover and adjust the cam. MAKE SURE THAT WHEN YOU TIGHTEN THE BOLT BACK UP THAT IT'S TORQUED UP TIGHT WITH THE LOCKING TOOLS IN PLACE. (left hand thread too) If it's in time then I'd start looking at the MAF and EGR.
(erm, no I wouldn't actually. I'd probably set light to it and burn the frigging thing!)
And just as a money saver point, don't bother getting it scanned if the EML isn't on as the MAF sensor rarely ever triggers the EML. One way to test the MAF is to disconnect it and start the motor. Drive it and see if it has a bit of power then switches to limp again. If it does, turn the ignition off and reconnect it again and start her up. Again, if it drives with power till a peak point where it shuts down into limp again it's a very good sign that the MAF is faulty.
Good luck and if you have any more troubles feel free to message me. If I can help I'll certainly try.
(or look me up on the book of faces) DBSAutos Camberley.
hey, thanks for the indepth reply! u are useful to have around ( or at my fingertips :P)
jus taken it out for a run now, starts fine, straight of the key, idles slightly lower than normal for around 15 seconds, then returns to normal idle, just under 1k revs
drive off and pulls fine in 1st, then into 2nd, foot down, just as the turbo comes in it goes into limp mode! wont rev past 3k
engine off and back on, try again, this time booting it in 1st, pulled fine, then into 2nd, turbo comes in, engine light on for around 2 secs, then off but still pulling fine, change into 3rd, and not booting it, back into limp
disconnected the MAF. started fine, little pic of engine on constantly, and strangley ran absolutly fine, no limp, no stutter, jus boosting away happily
is this the MAF or am i missing something
with regards to the engine and timing, we used big allen keys to lock the cams, and a screwdriver to lock off the crank, all seemed well and fine, that in my mind is fine,ive a hunch its something else :/
jus taken it out for a run now, starts fine, straight of the key, idles slightly lower than normal for around 15 seconds, then returns to normal idle, just under 1k revs
drive off and pulls fine in 1st, then into 2nd, foot down, just as the turbo comes in it goes into limp mode! wont rev past 3k
engine off and back on, try again, this time booting it in 1st, pulled fine, then into 2nd, turbo comes in, engine light on for around 2 secs, then off but still pulling fine, change into 3rd, and not booting it, back into limp
disconnected the MAF. started fine, little pic of engine on constantly, and strangley ran absolutly fine, no limp, no stutter, jus boosting away happily
is this the MAF or am i missing something
with regards to the engine and timing, we used big allen keys to lock the cams, and a screwdriver to lock off the crank, all seemed well and fine, that in my mind is fine,ive a hunch its something else :/
I would say from it running fine with the MAF disconnected you have a high or low value at the MAF sensor. If you can find the ideal resistance from Vauxhall you can check to see how current flows through the MAF with a volt / amp meter and check for resistance values. That'll either rule it out or diagnose it as faulty. Like I say though, beware of cheap imitations. They are cheap with good reasons. They don't work!
Have a look on the old unit if you still have it and see if the new one has the same number and bosche stamp on it. Bosche make them for most manufacturers of cars these days and I'd be surprised if it is anything more than a faulty unit. Euro's are defo your cheapest option and sometimes it's better to bite the bullet and go with them rather than wasting money on cheap imitations.
If the management light is on it'd be worth getting the fault codes and checking out what the ECU is saying. Although the MAF may not be present it may still be the ultimate fault as it controls the air flow which everything fuel side relies on. Most main dealers recommend changing the item that is recognised in the ECU memory rather than looking at what could cause it. REAL diagnostics is working out what would cause an item to fail rather than just throwing money at one part after another with no guarantees.
Do you have a friend that has a similar motor that you could donor a MAF for a test?
That's the first thing I'd try.
I'll bet a petrol can and a match is looking like a good option now hey? lol
There is another thing that you can do yourself is to check the injectors aren't leaking. I have seen these injectors fail in many Fiats and had to change a full set in a Fiat Scudo. What happens is the injectors dribble instead of inject when they fail sometimes and what happens is as it cannot inject it causes an imbalance in the fuel delivery. If there is a deposit or puddle of diesel around the seat of the injector it has very likely failed and broken the seat seal. If there is fuel there, don't panic, just dry any fuel away and leave it idling for a few minutes and check to see if the puddles come back. If it has, be prepared to spend a fortune!!!!
The injectors that I had to replace were over £400 each with the vat and had to be removed and re-seated by The Thread Doctor. You can sometimes get them out by loosening the retaining caps and starting the engine when it's red hot. They sometimes come out but when i tried taking them out 2 of them snapped in the head.
Bet you wish you'd bought a Ford now eh? If you do get shot of it look for anything with a 2L HDi engine in it. Cheap to run, easily fixed, not many faults, tried and tested for years.
Have a look on the old unit if you still have it and see if the new one has the same number and bosche stamp on it. Bosche make them for most manufacturers of cars these days and I'd be surprised if it is anything more than a faulty unit. Euro's are defo your cheapest option and sometimes it's better to bite the bullet and go with them rather than wasting money on cheap imitations.
If the management light is on it'd be worth getting the fault codes and checking out what the ECU is saying. Although the MAF may not be present it may still be the ultimate fault as it controls the air flow which everything fuel side relies on. Most main dealers recommend changing the item that is recognised in the ECU memory rather than looking at what could cause it. REAL diagnostics is working out what would cause an item to fail rather than just throwing money at one part after another with no guarantees.
Do you have a friend that has a similar motor that you could donor a MAF for a test?
That's the first thing I'd try.
I'll bet a petrol can and a match is looking like a good option now hey? lol
There is another thing that you can do yourself is to check the injectors aren't leaking. I have seen these injectors fail in many Fiats and had to change a full set in a Fiat Scudo. What happens is the injectors dribble instead of inject when they fail sometimes and what happens is as it cannot inject it causes an imbalance in the fuel delivery. If there is a deposit or puddle of diesel around the seat of the injector it has very likely failed and broken the seat seal. If there is fuel there, don't panic, just dry any fuel away and leave it idling for a few minutes and check to see if the puddles come back. If it has, be prepared to spend a fortune!!!!
The injectors that I had to replace were over £400 each with the vat and had to be removed and re-seated by The Thread Doctor. You can sometimes get them out by loosening the retaining caps and starting the engine when it's red hot. They sometimes come out but when i tried taking them out 2 of them snapped in the head.
Bet you wish you'd bought a Ford now eh? If you do get shot of it look for anything with a 2L HDi engine in it. Cheap to run, easily fixed, not many faults, tried and tested for years.
pyrospb said:
creasede said:
anyone with any ideas
Hi Chris,Have you managed to solve the limp-mode problem? I have exactly the same problem.
Also, I have vibration/stuttering on low rpms... Can't go below 20 km/h on the 2nd gear...
Please help!
easy way to test, disconnect it, and if it dosent make a change, then its faulty, as if it was working it would make a difference, you see my logic?
we ended up changing the cam chain & tensioners, theres a common fault where u need to change the oil filter regularly, as it breaks down and blocks the oilways, starving the tensioners/chain of oil, and stretchhhhing it, thus causing it to go slack and break
see how u get on
Crease said:
we ended up changing the cam chain & tensioners, theres a common fault where u need to change the oil filter regularly, as it breaks down and blocks the oilways, starving the tensioners/chain of oil, and stretchhhhing it, thus causing it to go slack and break
see how u get on
That is worrying as the service intervals are 20,000 miles.see how u get on
My company van has done 77,000 miles and has had 3 oil changes, shocking really but thats what Vauxhall say.
Le Mans Visitor said:
That is worrying as the service intervals are 20,000 miles.
My company van has done 77,000 miles and has had 3 oil changes, shocking really but thats what Vauxhall say.
IGNORE the 20,000 miles service intervals and do the oil and filter every 9-12k depending on usage. Read my previous posting for more details. My company van has done 77,000 miles and has had 3 oil changes, shocking really but thats what Vauxhall say.
Crease said:
get it changed, regular services are key, its the paper element in the filters that break down, and then clog the oilways, starving the engine, Z13DT engines its a common fault
as said above, its a french engine, so explains it all really
I've had another one in since the last post and this one died a death of 1000 soldiers with sunburnt armpits!!! as said above, its a french engine, so explains it all really
The oil filter blocked the camchain tensioner, ruining the chain, it went out of timing and after lots of puffing and grunting it turned out that the camshaft had twisted. £350 for a new cam shaft and that's JUST the shaft! 2 of the injectors refused to come out and I'll never do another now on principal!
Found this item through internet search and thought I would add to rather than start again as the history is important
I have Combo CDTi 1.3, I have also had problems with the power cutting out intermittently when I go over 3000 revs. It's a real pain as the first time it happened I was overtaking, it was rather scary.
Anyway we got a replacement maf but this has not resolved the problem in fact now I have the exhaust symbol up presumably due to me thrashing the engine to check the replacement unit.
I only do about 3000 miles a year being a self employed gardener, and I'm worried now it might be a bigger more expensive problem that I can no longer ignore! Any help would be greatly appreciated, although not over mechanically minded when it comes to vehicles I'm not too bad, however I do have a very good man who can, it's just this modern stuff is much too complicated.
I have Combo CDTi 1.3, I have also had problems with the power cutting out intermittently when I go over 3000 revs. It's a real pain as the first time it happened I was overtaking, it was rather scary.
Anyway we got a replacement maf but this has not resolved the problem in fact now I have the exhaust symbol up presumably due to me thrashing the engine to check the replacement unit.
I only do about 3000 miles a year being a self employed gardener, and I'm worried now it might be a bigger more expensive problem that I can no longer ignore! Any help would be greatly appreciated, although not over mechanically minded when it comes to vehicles I'm not too bad, however I do have a very good man who can, it's just this modern stuff is much too complicated.
Hi everyone.. my vauxhall combo 1.3 cdti 55 reg. Has a problem.. the battery light came on then the abs light then the epl light then all off them came on. After getting a jump start off my mate the van started but the battery light stayed on.. eventally all the lights came on again.. so i figured it was the alternator. And have changed it. But now it will not start. I have tried jumping it. Nothing fires.. i think it needs the ecu reseting maybe.. please anybody out there got any ideas many thanks adam
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