Wisdom of the crowds... some assistance please
Discussion
Hello all,
Flame suit on....
I know the Seven, Westy, Dax thing has been done to death. I have done a lot of reading - including Blatchat etc, and the famous Coca Cola forum post.
However, I'm procrastinating on which direction to spend a lot of time on first.
So.. time to post up my thinking process and hopefully a few kind souls will guide me.
Here is my brain dump...
Love the idea of Seven.
Residuals are unbelievably strong looking at the pre-owneds on Caterham and the other specialists.
Ironically - i Don't fancy spending a hoofing amount on a 10+ year old car when 7K more gets me a new one.
I'm patient - I can wait for the factory to make me one.
I do have trouble reconciling spending a large amount of money on a car that may have had many an academy/ track day, and possibly a long chassis or three in the process.
I change my mind like a weather vane between Classic, and R500 CTR and everything inbetween.
The prospect of pant wetting performance from a second car is quite intoxicating - but I would be using the car for weekend jaunts in the country.
Do I really need the ability to floor the throttle for 3 seconds before I max out ( legally )?
Or is the asthmatic Classic more tuned to country road twisties - eg. requiring much better driving ability and road craft.
But I can believe that those who went for 125hp, wanted 150, those who bought 150.. wanted 175 etc etc
I will want a windscreen. Stones hitting my face would probably hurt like a b
h - and I hate full face helmets.
My days of holding a spanner and tinkering died over 20 years ago, this is key.
I imagine the very nice Caterham salesman won't be too happy with me wanting about 7 test drives to find the car that I want. ( I hope to narrow the field down to 2 or 3 max )
I want a factory built one. Not one build someone in their shed.
Budget - Happily spend up to £30K - so a huge choice, but I want it to be a wise one.
Bike engined.. probably a real hoot... but the long term ownership may drive me nuts.
If it rains - and the hood isn't up ( which it would very rarely be if ever )... I need to be able to clean the car out without requiring major valeting because it got a bit wet on the M3.
So... Which Caterham?
I don't want to buy an asthmatic one only to hanker for a bit more power? ( Well, don't we all )
I have owned a god few RWD sports cars ( although nothing close to the Seven in terms of erm..luxury)
I have tried a few on track days, and they are surprisingly much more fun and predictable than some other marques I have owned.
OK.. hold that thought..
Plastic Westy's do come cheap. It is a bit uglier in my eyes, and used ones are way way cheaper.
I have no experience with them, but I imagine for country road jaunts... could actually be sufficient for what I need.
Then we get to Dax, Strikers and Robin Hoods...
I'm not a badge snob, but - being lower down the price point scale - my perception is that they will need a bit more spanner TLC, and parts not readily off the shelf. Not spending an extra £15K does appeal to me, but I would more than likely regret not buying "Coca Cola" and going for Supermarket own brand.
And a clincher may be that the Seven crowd camp next to me at Le Mans. My annual Mecca
But for some reason their Generator, music etc isn't that loud
Ok... so thinking out loud...
What 3 Sevens should I arrange a test drive in?
What questions have I not asked that I should?
What was your first seven? And did you wish you went further up the rung?
Also - anyone in the Berkshire, Hampshire area - willing to take me for a spin for a bit?
I'll provide beer tokens.
I would much rather get the right car first time - as it would likely be a keeper. And in a few years time get something additional to add to the stable.
Or, should I look at "Pepsi Cola" - and the Atom route? Had a few passenger rides, handling on track is awesome, but emotionally...something is missing.
Flame suit off..
So Ladies and Gents, please give me your thoughts.
I've read pretty much everything on T'internet to death. Time for a bit of dialogue and maybe "show and tell".
TIA
Troubleatmill
Flame suit on....
I know the Seven, Westy, Dax thing has been done to death. I have done a lot of reading - including Blatchat etc, and the famous Coca Cola forum post.
However, I'm procrastinating on which direction to spend a lot of time on first.
So.. time to post up my thinking process and hopefully a few kind souls will guide me.
Here is my brain dump...
Love the idea of Seven.
Residuals are unbelievably strong looking at the pre-owneds on Caterham and the other specialists.
Ironically - i Don't fancy spending a hoofing amount on a 10+ year old car when 7K more gets me a new one.
I'm patient - I can wait for the factory to make me one.
I do have trouble reconciling spending a large amount of money on a car that may have had many an academy/ track day, and possibly a long chassis or three in the process.
I change my mind like a weather vane between Classic, and R500 CTR and everything inbetween.
The prospect of pant wetting performance from a second car is quite intoxicating - but I would be using the car for weekend jaunts in the country.
Do I really need the ability to floor the throttle for 3 seconds before I max out ( legally )?
Or is the asthmatic Classic more tuned to country road twisties - eg. requiring much better driving ability and road craft.
But I can believe that those who went for 125hp, wanted 150, those who bought 150.. wanted 175 etc etc
I will want a windscreen. Stones hitting my face would probably hurt like a b
h - and I hate full face helmets.My days of holding a spanner and tinkering died over 20 years ago, this is key.
I imagine the very nice Caterham salesman won't be too happy with me wanting about 7 test drives to find the car that I want. ( I hope to narrow the field down to 2 or 3 max )
I want a factory built one. Not one build someone in their shed.
Budget - Happily spend up to £30K - so a huge choice, but I want it to be a wise one.
Bike engined.. probably a real hoot... but the long term ownership may drive me nuts.
If it rains - and the hood isn't up ( which it would very rarely be if ever )... I need to be able to clean the car out without requiring major valeting because it got a bit wet on the M3.
So... Which Caterham?
I don't want to buy an asthmatic one only to hanker for a bit more power? ( Well, don't we all )
I have owned a god few RWD sports cars ( although nothing close to the Seven in terms of erm..luxury)
I have tried a few on track days, and they are surprisingly much more fun and predictable than some other marques I have owned.
OK.. hold that thought..
Plastic Westy's do come cheap. It is a bit uglier in my eyes, and used ones are way way cheaper.
I have no experience with them, but I imagine for country road jaunts... could actually be sufficient for what I need.
Then we get to Dax, Strikers and Robin Hoods...
I'm not a badge snob, but - being lower down the price point scale - my perception is that they will need a bit more spanner TLC, and parts not readily off the shelf. Not spending an extra £15K does appeal to me, but I would more than likely regret not buying "Coca Cola" and going for Supermarket own brand.
And a clincher may be that the Seven crowd camp next to me at Le Mans. My annual Mecca
But for some reason their Generator, music etc isn't that loud
Ok... so thinking out loud...
What 3 Sevens should I arrange a test drive in?
What questions have I not asked that I should?
What was your first seven? And did you wish you went further up the rung?
Also - anyone in the Berkshire, Hampshire area - willing to take me for a spin for a bit?
I'll provide beer tokens.
I would much rather get the right car first time - as it would likely be a keeper. And in a few years time get something additional to add to the stable.
Or, should I look at "Pepsi Cola" - and the Atom route? Had a few passenger rides, handling on track is awesome, but emotionally...something is missing.
Flame suit off..
So Ladies and Gents, please give me your thoughts.
I've read pretty much everything on T'internet to death. Time for a bit of dialogue and maybe "show and tell".
TIA
Troubleatmill
Troubleatmill
You have obviously thought a lot about this - a few extra bits of information would help:
1) What do you expect to use the car for - touring? trackdays? Short blats? Mainly one-up, or likely to have a passenger?
2) Ermmm.. [cough].. How big are you? If you are whippet-like you are likely to rattle around (literally) in an SV/CSR. If you aren't, you may not fit comfortably in the S3. If you are in between, then it may come down to your preference (and the answer to Q1).
So...
I would go for (in no particular order)
a) A CSR 260 - gives you a feel for the larger chassis, and big bhp and torque
b) An R300 - hits the sweet spot for many in having the right balance of enough power, but not so much that you can't really use it.
c) A 125bhp Sigma - will allow you to enjoy the car on the road without the temptation that may lose you your licence...
Me?
At 6'5" and 120kg, I was not S3-sized, so started with a 2nd hand 150bhp SV, which I had for 4 years, and followed up with a CSR 260 as I wanted more and had the opportunity to get it! I do about 6k miles a year, and have toured with my wife for the last two summers, clocking up 2,000 miles each time. I do some trackdays (the power is useful for overtaking, but even 150bhp wasn't that tardy) and compete in some sprint events (CSR is more competitive as the SV was at the wrong end of the competitive power range to post decent times).
Don't be too worried about buying a used car - just base your decision on the condition of the car, rather than the mileage.
Steve
You have obviously thought a lot about this - a few extra bits of information would help:
1) What do you expect to use the car for - touring? trackdays? Short blats? Mainly one-up, or likely to have a passenger?
2) Ermmm.. [cough].. How big are you? If you are whippet-like you are likely to rattle around (literally) in an SV/CSR. If you aren't, you may not fit comfortably in the S3. If you are in between, then it may come down to your preference (and the answer to Q1).
So...
I would go for (in no particular order)
a) A CSR 260 - gives you a feel for the larger chassis, and big bhp and torque
b) An R300 - hits the sweet spot for many in having the right balance of enough power, but not so much that you can't really use it.
c) A 125bhp Sigma - will allow you to enjoy the car on the road without the temptation that may lose you your licence...
Me?
At 6'5" and 120kg, I was not S3-sized, so started with a 2nd hand 150bhp SV, which I had for 4 years, and followed up with a CSR 260 as I wanted more and had the opportunity to get it! I do about 6k miles a year, and have toured with my wife for the last two summers, clocking up 2,000 miles each time. I do some trackdays (the power is useful for overtaking, but even 150bhp wasn't that tardy) and compete in some sprint events (CSR is more competitive as the SV was at the wrong end of the competitive power range to post decent times).
Don't be too worried about buying a used car - just base your decision on the condition of the car, rather than the mileage.
Steve
That is a very good post and very similar to my thinking except your budget extends further than mine.
I have drove a 130bhp k series on a track and I will be driving both of roadsport hires cars on the road in April to see how they feel.
Iooks wise the westy is uglier but I also think the caterham sv is too, but I need to drive them first to confirm my prejudice.
I have drove a 130bhp k series on a track and I will be driving both of roadsport hires cars on the road in April to see how they feel.
Iooks wise the westy is uglier but I also think the caterham sv is too, but I need to drive them first to confirm my prejudice.
If I were about to spend 30k then it would either be a new R300 with options in kit form or a slightly used but with the new dash R400. I recon the R300 is a very drivable car and the Duratec is very upgradable when the time comes. The R400 IMO is not quite as 'nice' but more raw. Either way theres a good chance you won't change either for something better in the near future.
Jason
Jason
My personal suggestion would be to try the following 3:
1. R300 K-Series
2. R300 Duratec
3. R400 K-Series
As a first 7 the R400 may feel a little too loony for the road therefore you may benefit more from learning about the limits of the 7 in a more "tame" version. I started with 130bhp and moved on progressively to 240! I think for the road around 160 to 200 is ideal.
Stu.
1. R300 K-Series
2. R300 Duratec
3. R400 K-Series
As a first 7 the R400 may feel a little too loony for the road therefore you may benefit more from learning about the limits of the 7 in a more "tame" version. I started with 130bhp and moved on progressively to 240! I think for the road around 160 to 200 is ideal.
Stu.
Exactly. Well, except you don't need to join the club. The Reading, Hants and Berks (ReHaB) meeting was last night unfortunately and anyway only one Seven turned up but when the weather gets a bit better there'll be a variety there to choose from and plenty of people willing to take you for run. There are two meetings a month http://www.lotussevenclub.com/AreaMeetings/AreaPag...
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