Caterham with clothes on . . .

Caterham with clothes on . . .

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dinkel

Original Poster:

27,177 posts

265 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
quotequote all

What happened to this thingy? With a 2.3 250 bhp Duratec this will be huge fun . . .

>>> Edited by dinkel on Wednesday 14th April 15:31

Roadrunner

2,690 posts

274 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
quotequote all
This was the only ever good looking kit car too, IMO. What a wasted opportunity.

Incorrigible

13,668 posts

268 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
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Wehn they brought it out, it was competing with the Elise which did everything that the 21 did but better

I can't remember the sales figures, but they are appallingly low

Bonce

4,339 posts

286 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
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Only about 50 were made - unfortunately for Caterham, Lotus brought out the Elise at the same time and stole the market. Lovely looking cars though. A friend put a VHPD K series in his 21 and it went like stink albeit not very reliably!

Aprisa

1,829 posts

265 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
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Roadrunner said:
This was the only ever good looking kit car too, IMO. What a wasted opportunity.


So you think mines ugly?
Nick

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
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Wrong car - wrong time.

Unfortunately, I don't think it would ever have been a success, with or without the Elise. It was almost as impractical as a Seven, only less direct to drive and slower.

telecat

8,528 posts

248 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
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Did you see the program where Caterham were trying to produce a 7 for the 21st century?? They explained the failure was down to it being released at the same time as the Elise but not having the same development money. The attempt to produce a "new" 7 failed as well when Reynard went bust not that any of the designs went down well with Caterham anyway!

Incorrigible

13,668 posts

268 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
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telecat said:
Did you see the program where Caterham were trying to produce a 7 for the 21st century??
The blinkered old git, going on and on about how ugly the Elise was was nearly enough to put me off getting a Caterham

Nearly......

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
quotequote all
A bit harsh - but they did tend to blame the Elise for the 21's failure. No doubt the Elise did have an effect on sales but I think the 21 had a major problem in falling between two stools. It didn't appeal to the true sports car enthusiasts (such as might be likely to buy a Seven or Seven equivalent) but it was still too raw and basic for the more "sporty" type of driver who might be tempted by an Elise or even an MX5.

With the exception of the MX5, none of the mass market sports cars, such as the MGF, Boxster or Elise were in existence at the time the 21 was launched. If they had, I doubt if Caterham would have bothered.

However, with the failure of the 21 and the collapse of the Reynard project, it looks like Caterham are now doing the right thing, which is making the most of the product they know best, the Seven.

ferg

15,242 posts

264 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
quotequote all
Aprisa said:

Roadrunner said:
This was the only ever good looking kit car too, IMO. What a wasted opportunity.

So you think mines ugly?
Nick

And mine.

Mark B

1,636 posts

272 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
quotequote all
I loved the Caterham 21 and would love to get one even now. I admit that the Elise is possibly a little better but I would not describe the Caterham 21 as basic as the seven. It had a decent roof, decent boot, comfortable interior, considerably better aerodynamics and an equal driving experience to Elise anyday, particularly with the Elise handling 'quirks' that have caught a lot of people out.

The biggest problem I would have thought was the fact they were not delivered completed like an Elise (I think), which would have put a lot of people off. Anyone who is wanting to put spanners to their new acquisition would be more akinned (SP?) to the seven.

All IMHO of course, but I for one thought the lack of sales and the eventual stop to production was a huge shame.

Great car.....

Re putting a Duratec in one, I know there was a guy who shoved the HPC Vauxhall engine in one for sprints, apparently very very quick with 230+hp.

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Wednesday 14th April 2004
quotequote all
That's the point I was making - who was it aimed at - the kit car spanner merchant or the smart suited Porsche owner?

I didn't actually say that it was as basic as a Seven. What I did say was that it was too raw and basic for its intended market, although I'm not altogether sure Caterham knew who that was supposed to be. Performance wise, it was always going to come a poor second to the equivalent Seven - it was heavier and bulkier so less chuckable. Because of the streamlined bodywork, it did have a higher top speed than an equivalently powered Seven but both Sevens and 21s are more about handling than pure top speeds.

It was slightly more practical than the Seven but it still had some annoying features like non-winding windows - unforgiveable in a car of this type (perfectly acceptable in a Seven, of course).

To put things in context, Lotus spent more on developing the doors of the Elise than Caterham did on the whole of the 21.



>> Edited by Eric Mc on Wednesday 14th April 17:48

dinkel

Original Poster:

27,177 posts

265 months

Thursday 15th April 2004
quotequote all
So, may I conclude this was a one off and no new 21 will leave the Caterhamplant? A pity coz its a Ginetta-like car . . .

Eric Mc

122,855 posts

272 months

Thursday 15th April 2004
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Well, not quite a one off (production ran to 40-50 units) but no more are likely to be made.

jeremyc

24,550 posts

291 months

Thursday 15th April 2004
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Lots more information at www.caterham21.com

>> Edited by jeremyc on Thursday 15th April 09:47

Roadrunner

2,690 posts

274 months

Thursday 15th April 2004
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Aprisa, you have a beautiful car there, which I had never heard of. What's the engine / chassis?

sook

77 posts

247 months

Thursday 15th April 2004
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ferg said:

Aprisa said:


Roadrunner said:
This was the only ever good looking kit car too, IMO. What a wasted opportunity.


So you think mines ugly?
Nick


And mine.


What, the Multipla?

dinkel

Original Poster:

27,177 posts

265 months

Thursday 15th April 2004
quotequote all
Roadrunner said:
Aprisa, you have a beautiful car there, which I had never heard of. What's the engine / chassis?


Is ur Phantom Vortex a Honda v6 with an autobox?

Thumper

171 posts

271 months

Thursday 15th April 2004
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I was always a fan of the 21. I own a Latham F2, which looks quite similar from some angles, although it's a lot larger in every direction except height.

I spoke to a guy on the Caterham stand at the Autosport show, and he confirmed much of what's been discussed above. In essence, the 21 appeared to be far more sophisticated than it really was. That meant it appealed, on pure looks, to the upmarket moneyed types, but fell short on their expectations of what a sportscar should offer - wind-up windows, leakproof hood, easy access for the long-legged passenger, room in the boot for the overnight bags and golf clubs etc etc. On the flipside, it no longer caught the imagination of Caterham's traditional customer, although the roadholding and performance was every bit as excellent as the Seven. While the Elise did offer more of the creature comforts (although that hood also leaves a bit to be desired as well!) it was also able to compete with the 21 on price and, backed by a better-funded advertising campaign, won hands-down as a result.

A sad loss. I fancied one with the aluminium bodyshell, but no hope now.

Cotty

40,293 posts

291 months

Thursday 15th April 2004
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You would have thought that a kit car firm might have bought the molds from Catherham if they no longer wanted them. I still think it looks fantastic and would have one in a shot