175 Roadsport - too fast for hire
Discussion
We're thinking about replacing our 140bhp K series 1.8SV.
I drove new a 125 (sigma)Roadsport narrow body car and a 150 sigma a SV. Loved the 125 Roadsport so replaced our supersport with it and it's getting rave reviews. Was a bit less impressed with 150 Sigma even though it was only 20 mins. Am wondering about getting a 175 Roadsport for hire - too rapid?? Haven't talked to our insurers yet. For non Caterham drivers on their first outing the 140 K series and 125 sigma have never had a "not fast enough coment"
Anyone have one - thoughts??
Cheers
Scott.
I drove new a 125 (sigma)Roadsport narrow body car and a 150 sigma a SV. Loved the 125 Roadsport so replaced our supersport with it and it's getting rave reviews. Was a bit less impressed with 150 Sigma even though it was only 20 mins. Am wondering about getting a 175 Roadsport for hire - too rapid?? Haven't talked to our insurers yet. For non Caterham drivers on their first outing the 140 K series and 125 sigma have never had a "not fast enough coment"
Anyone have one - thoughts??
Cheers
Scott.
Morning Scott,
I hired a 6-speed K-series 140 up in Scotland for a weekend and found it brilliant, and as a hire car more than enough for me. Saying that i would of choosen the 175 for sure if it was an option
, but as i have never driven both side by side I'm not sure what the differences are, and whether it would be "too much", especially as its most peoples first drive of a 7.
I would presume most people hiring 7's (i did anyway) know they have to treat them with a bit of respect when driving, so would that "extra" horses make a difference?
Since my hire i am now looking at 1.8k series SVs with a 6-speed (loved it) but have seen a few Sigma 150 so interested to know why you you were less impressed by it. Never driven the Sigma yet, only K series so interested in your thoughts.
Oh and we nearly hired from you, but the girlfriend is from Scotland so meant it was a bit easier for us to get too but your cars look fantastic
Cheers,
Stu.
I hired a 6-speed K-series 140 up in Scotland for a weekend and found it brilliant, and as a hire car more than enough for me. Saying that i would of choosen the 175 for sure if it was an option
, but as i have never driven both side by side I'm not sure what the differences are, and whether it would be "too much", especially as its most peoples first drive of a 7. I would presume most people hiring 7's (i did anyway) know they have to treat them with a bit of respect when driving, so would that "extra" horses make a difference?
Since my hire i am now looking at 1.8k series SVs with a 6-speed (loved it) but have seen a few Sigma 150 so interested to know why you you were less impressed by it. Never driven the Sigma yet, only K series so interested in your thoughts.
Oh and we nearly hired from you, but the girlfriend is from Scotland so meant it was a bit easier for us to get too but your cars look fantastic
Cheers,
Stu.
I think that the 175bhp is the top end of the power range in terms of hiring it out to Joe Public. I had a 160bhp k-series roadsport, which the 175 replaced, and found it was all you would ever want or need for the road.
Fast but not too fast that you end up in trouble too quickly.
I would have the 175 as a hire given the choice.
Matt
Fast but not too fast that you end up in trouble too quickly.
I would have the 175 as a hire given the choice.
Matt
Scott,
I just remember my first experience of driving a Caterham with you - it felt so intense I didn't really feel comfortable taking it over 70 to start with. Acceleration didn't feel crazy but it felt very full on.
If I was you there's no way I'd give people a first taste of Caterham in a 175 - it's unnecessary for their experience and too much risk for you.
I just remember my first experience of driving a Caterham with you - it felt so intense I didn't really feel comfortable taking it over 70 to start with. Acceleration didn't feel crazy but it felt very full on.
If I was you there's no way I'd give people a first taste of Caterham in a 175 - it's unnecessary for their experience and too much risk for you.
It depends on where you see yourself in the caterham hire market?
A)Do you want to offer an "introductory expierence" only?
B)A progression through the range, one step at a time?
C) the ultimate caterham hire expeirence offering the full range of caterhams for hire?
If its A) might as well stick with what you have got. B)Get the 175, but I doubt it will generate its own work. If the 175 is your clients first caterham drive, it may be a little to much, if they are looking to progress up the range it may not be enough of a difference to impress. Its a step up, but not massive.
If you are going to offer a step up, then I would go for a "headline car" maybe an R300 or R400, something that would create a bit of a stir, something you could advertise as a first, a USP that others do not have. This would then create its own work. A car like this may seem to powerful for the road by the intermediate, or those in the know. But as novice caterham drivers I bet your customers would'nt know untill they got in it. But by then, they are your customers, and you have thier hire business. People's eyes are bigger than thier bellys.
These guys hire out Atom 160, 245 and the mental 300bhp Super charged version. 175BHP to powerful? no! its not enough!
http://atomhire.co.uk/?page_id=5
If it were me, I'd either stick with the cars you have or go down the R3/4/500 route.
As an alternative have you condsidered putting a Westfield up for hire, this way you can appeal to both camps and offer a 50/50 allowing people to compare. I also think there is a market for someone to offer a BEC for daily hire, as there are many in the kit car segment who cant decide between BEC or car powered. Again this would give you a USP that others dont have. HTH
A)Do you want to offer an "introductory expierence" only?
B)A progression through the range, one step at a time?
C) the ultimate caterham hire expeirence offering the full range of caterhams for hire?
If its A) might as well stick with what you have got. B)Get the 175, but I doubt it will generate its own work. If the 175 is your clients first caterham drive, it may be a little to much, if they are looking to progress up the range it may not be enough of a difference to impress. Its a step up, but not massive.
If you are going to offer a step up, then I would go for a "headline car" maybe an R300 or R400, something that would create a bit of a stir, something you could advertise as a first, a USP that others do not have. This would then create its own work. A car like this may seem to powerful for the road by the intermediate, or those in the know. But as novice caterham drivers I bet your customers would'nt know untill they got in it. But by then, they are your customers, and you have thier hire business. People's eyes are bigger than thier bellys.
These guys hire out Atom 160, 245 and the mental 300bhp Super charged version. 175BHP to powerful? no! its not enough!
http://atomhire.co.uk/?page_id=5
If it were me, I'd either stick with the cars you have or go down the R3/4/500 route.
As an alternative have you condsidered putting a Westfield up for hire, this way you can appeal to both camps and offer a 50/50 allowing people to compare. I also think there is a market for someone to offer a BEC for daily hire, as there are many in the kit car segment who cant decide between BEC or car powered. Again this would give you a USP that others dont have. HTH
I think you'll find a lot of people want to hire the best car you've got, so I suspect you'd find lots of takers for a RS175 or an R300. However, do the punters have the skills to deal with sub-5s 0-60, no driver aids, bumpy roads ...
My Sigma125 doesn't feel fast on track, but when I used to drive it on the road (I don't now - race car only) it felt mighty quick. You really don't want people backing off part-way round a corner and having the back come round. Much more chance of that as you get to the racier models.
Insurance might well be the decision-maker!
Jez
My Sigma125 doesn't feel fast on track, but when I used to drive it on the road (I don't now - race car only) it felt mighty quick. You really don't want people backing off part-way round a corner and having the back come round. Much more chance of that as you get to the racier models.
Insurance might well be the decision-maker!
Jez
Z3MCJez said:
You really don't want people backing off part-way round a corner and having the back come round. Much more chance of that as you get to the racier models.
Jez
You'd have to be approaching the limit of grip when you back off mid-corner for the back to come round in the dry, and I doubt first time customers are going to be doing that all too soon. In the wet, the power isn't even an issue for driving carefully cos the speeds are much slower.Jez
I think people that haven't driven a Caterham before are going to be exploring their own limits rather than the car's limits.
When I hired your S3 Supersport it was a question of building up confidence all day to the point where, late in the day, I was pressing on quite hard. If one of those 'stomach in mouth' moments comes along for a first time customer, they're probably going to be still within the capabilities of the car. For more experienced customers, the extra bhp would add an extra dimension to their experience.
Tim
I'm going to back Mike and Jez up. Plenty of the hire punters are likely to be FWD habituals, who are not used to anything more than an easing of understeer when they lift off mid-bend. If you approach a R300 or RS175 with that mental model you could very easily exceed the rear grip limit, especially while the tyres are cold.
Toyless, you're not likely to get close to messing it up, being used to Furies and a Camaro are you?
Toyless, you're not likely to get close to messing it up, being used to Furies and a Camaro are you?
I think the general public are pretty unaware, just how quick a Caterham is!
If anybody who drives a 'Normally quickish' car, tried to drive the Caterham in the same way on the road, things could easilly get out of hand IMO...
I think the biggest problem is any greasy / wet roads...
Or underestimating the potential of a breakaway on a bend / corner and spinning out with too much throttle..?!!
Around 140-150 bhp is plenty enough to keep any first time Caterham driver happy i reckon!
If anybody who drives a 'Normally quickish' car, tried to drive the Caterham in the same way on the road, things could easilly get out of hand IMO...
I think the biggest problem is any greasy / wet roads...
Or underestimating the potential of a breakaway on a bend / corner and spinning out with too much throttle..?!!
Around 140-150 bhp is plenty enough to keep any first time Caterham driver happy i reckon!
I think everyone is in agreement that 140-150bhp is ideal for the first time hirer. However even on this thread Scott has customers who have, or are planning to return and hire again. From a business point to view, having already won a customer, it makes good sense to then get them to return. They are easy business. For these customers, having the 175bhp offers them a reason to return and improve the business's offering.
However, I still think offering a R300 is the way to go. 1) It ceates a headline with which to promote the busuiness. Helping to capture new clients, regardless of whether they end up hiring the 125 or the R300 2) It offers REAL progression for the returning hirer. 3)Can attract a premium which will hopefully drive up profits.
But it is for marketing, i think the r300 earns its outlay. As another poster said "people always want to hire your best car" even if they dont really know what they want. Get them on the phone, then sell them what they need.
However, I still think offering a R300 is the way to go. 1) It ceates a headline with which to promote the busuiness. Helping to capture new clients, regardless of whether they end up hiring the 125 or the R300 2) It offers REAL progression for the returning hirer. 3)Can attract a premium which will hopefully drive up profits.
But it is for marketing, i think the r300 earns its outlay. As another poster said "people always want to hire your best car" even if they dont really know what they want. Get them on the phone, then sell them what they need.
Really great insight guys - thanks for your thoughts.
It's interestiung that we've had a couple of our PH customers back this week for a second time in a few months and they still loved it. Dave still wanted to drive the 1.8SV even though we set it up to drive both cars on the same day and Kevin loved the new 125 Roadsport, having previously driven the 1.6k series Supersport.
I think I've resolved in my own mind that the sub 140bhp is plenty for new and returning customers/PHers alike but I prefered our 140bhp K series to the 150bhp sigma where I found the power a bit too top endy (technical motoring term).
I'd never have believed that a 125 sigma would have been so well received but it's a cracker and maybe we just go for a 125SV. I think on reflection the 175 Roadsport is too much as was well observed above, we have some customers for whom even a real wheel drive car is a novelty.
Thanks all for your help. Much appreciated as I don't have all the answers and sometimes it's great to have a sounding board.
It's interestiung that we've had a couple of our PH customers back this week for a second time in a few months and they still loved it. Dave still wanted to drive the 1.8SV even though we set it up to drive both cars on the same day and Kevin loved the new 125 Roadsport, having previously driven the 1.6k series Supersport.
I think I've resolved in my own mind that the sub 140bhp is plenty for new and returning customers/PHers alike but I prefered our 140bhp K series to the 150bhp sigma where I found the power a bit too top endy (technical motoring term).
I'd never have believed that a 125 sigma would have been so well received but it's a cracker and maybe we just go for a 125SV. I think on reflection the 175 Roadsport is too much as was well observed above, we have some customers for whom even a real wheel drive car is a novelty.
Thanks all for your help. Much appreciated as I don't have all the answers and sometimes it's great to have a sounding board.
mattmurdock said:
Looks like you have made your mind up on this, but just as an aside the Swindon/South West franchise of the official Caterham Cars hire company does offer a 175 Roadsport SV for hire to the general public, so they obviously don't think it is too fast for hire.
I dont think these companys are official or franchises, or are they? I read it as independants recommended by caterham by way of a web link.I think the Swindon lot only offer thier car for hire with a motorhome.
My home built sigma 125 has been on the road for just on 3 years & 12k miles & I've always loved it. I thought by now I might be after a bit more poke or perhaps getting a little bored with it but no! Does your hire 125 pop & bang on the overrun? Mine does & if anything is now doing it more (which I love)
A friend of mine bought a 125 & had it upgraded to 150 (not cheap) & his car is running I think map H whch seems to have sorted flat spots etc but no popping & banging which he rather misses. When the engine is reaching peak RPM it certainly makes a better noise than the 125 but he thinks the 150 lacks the flexibility of the 125.
I won't be spending the circa 3k to upgrade mine to 150, instead I'll save up & change to a Duratec engined 7, probably in 175 spec in the future (a long way in the future!!)
A friend of mine bought a 125 & had it upgraded to 150 (not cheap) & his car is running I think map H whch seems to have sorted flat spots etc but no popping & banging which he rather misses. When the engine is reaching peak RPM it certainly makes a better noise than the 125 but he thinks the 150 lacks the flexibility of the 125.
I won't be spending the circa 3k to upgrade mine to 150, instead I'll save up & change to a Duratec engined 7, probably in 175 spec in the future (a long way in the future!!)
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