Purchase advice please!
Discussion
Looking to get my first Caterham, having just spent the weekend in a hired Roadsports and loved it! I've had an Elise, and have a MINI JCW, but am going to go for a road/tow car and a fun car.
What would be the recommendation of 'must have' bits? It's going to be a blat and track day car, with the occasional trip to Le Mans, Spa and the 'Ring (these two in October)
I was looking at Westies, but managed to scrape together enough money that ex Academy and Roadsports became viable. I'm now looking at Superlights, and was wondering whether it was worth the stretch to an R300. Budget creep I know, but that has to be the max! Ideally 20k or under, but could go to low 20's if it was really worth it?
What is most important?
Tillet seats
6 speed
LSD
Wide track
Superlight Wheels
Engine (140,160...)
Dry sump
Stack
Adjustable shock mounts
Thanks!
Pete
What would be the recommendation of 'must have' bits? It's going to be a blat and track day car, with the occasional trip to Le Mans, Spa and the 'Ring (these two in October)
I was looking at Westies, but managed to scrape together enough money that ex Academy and Roadsports became viable. I'm now looking at Superlights, and was wondering whether it was worth the stretch to an R300. Budget creep I know, but that has to be the max! Ideally 20k or under, but could go to low 20's if it was really worth it?
What is most important?
Tillet seats
6 speed
LSD
Wide track
Superlight Wheels
Engine (140,160...)
Dry sump
Stack
Adjustable shock mounts
Thanks!
Pete
Gotta be a K-Series era Superlight R-something for that budget surely?
Depends how much time you want to spend on track and how much time on the road. If the long trips to Le Mans etc. are a major thing then you'll want to look out for a full screen and hood plus some comfy seats. At the other end of the scale you can grab a helmet, ditch the screen in favour of a wind deflector, get an uprated cage and some more supportive racing seats.
Depends how much time you want to spend on track and how much time on the road. If the long trips to Le Mans etc. are a major thing then you'll want to look out for a full screen and hood plus some comfy seats. At the other end of the scale you can grab a helmet, ditch the screen in favour of a wind deflector, get an uprated cage and some more supportive racing seats.
Thanks folks. So, how much power do I need? Is the 140 odd in a Superlight enough, or should I stretch to the 160 in an r300? After Spa, where I will probably still be getting to grips with the car, it will probably be Brands, Oulton, maybe Donnington... Looks like you can get a roadsport or superlight upspecced to superlight or r300 spec a little cheaper. Any pros or cons to going that route? Resale value I guess.
Depends what you want really.
At road speeds I can't say the basic 138bhp Supersport feels slow. In lightweight spec it's still the best part of 280bhp/ton and you can out accelerate and out-corner most things on the road.
Its performance does tail off quite rapidly at higher speeds, but the woeful aerodynamics of the Seven will do that to any of them to a certain extent. That said, I've never been to the likes of Spa, but on the long circuit at Bedford (with a massive back straight) my basic Roadsport A was indicating the best part of 130mph, which felt more than quick enough in a Seven!
I'd guess with your sort of budget it becomes a question of balancing performance with reliability and rebuild schedules - you can probably buy something with upwards of 200bhp for that (approaching 400bhp/ton!) if you want, but I'd hazard a guess it would require more attention than a basic Supersport.
At road speeds I can't say the basic 138bhp Supersport feels slow. In lightweight spec it's still the best part of 280bhp/ton and you can out accelerate and out-corner most things on the road.
Its performance does tail off quite rapidly at higher speeds, but the woeful aerodynamics of the Seven will do that to any of them to a certain extent. That said, I've never been to the likes of Spa, but on the long circuit at Bedford (with a massive back straight) my basic Roadsport A was indicating the best part of 130mph, which felt more than quick enough in a Seven!
I'd guess with your sort of budget it becomes a question of balancing performance with reliability and rebuild schedules - you can probably buy something with upwards of 200bhp for that (approaching 400bhp/ton!) if you want, but I'd hazard a guess it would require more attention than a basic Supersport.
That's a very valid point - and one I hadn't thought of! Thank you. I'll stick to 160 max then. And I guess any old fool can go fast in a straight line, the fun bit is always in the corners. My elise (120 bhp) certainly didn't do much more than 125, and I doubt I hit that on any track that I did, and I never thought it was too slow.
Petey_H said:
That's a very valid point - and one I hadn't thought of! Thank you. I'll stick to 160 max then. And I guess any old fool can go fast in a straight line, the fun bit is always in the corners. My elise (120 bhp) certainly didn't do much more than 125, and I doubt I hit that on any track that I did, and I never thought it was too slow.
It is worth speaking to someone who's actually owned one of the higher power cars. I haven't had one myself, so it was intended more as something to consider than a statement of fact. 
I wouldn't set an upper limit necesarily - more power is always nice, but it is worth checking whether you're making any sacrifices to get it. In the dry mine feels like it could take a lot more power (as the Rs would seem to bear out!), but it doesn't feel 'wanting' particular either.
In comparison to other cars, it's worth bearing in mind a little power goes a long way in a Seven. It's difficult to be subjective when you're being blasted with wind and noise, but I reckon my circa-140bhp Caterham feels usefully quicker than an S1 Elise 111S of the same power. There again it should be - it's something like 200kg lighter! Just to reinforce the significance of that, the Elise is usually taken as a benchmark for lightweight - and not without reason - but you'd have to take a Caterham and add getting on for half the weight again to get to the weight of an S1 Elise. This won't be so relevant at high speeds though, where I suspect the slipperier aerodynamics of the Elise will muller a Caterham of similar outright power output...
Edited by Chris71 on Monday 20th September 17:10
In a sense, how fast it goes is irrelevent. Most advice though is the more hp the better. If you don't get it now, you'll upgrade to it. I have been there up to (old-world) R500 (3rd 7). I then changed my perspective and got the lowest power caterham I'd owned. 1600-k exec superlight. Cost less than half what I sold my R500 for. It was by far my fav 7 on road and on track.
It's a very personal choice. There's quite a bit of choice of 1600-k "superlight" type spec at much lower than your 20k. It could be a great place to start and either move on from (you won't loose anything in depreciation at that price point) or stay at.
Get to drive a couple and see what you think.
It's a very personal choice. There's quite a bit of choice of 1600-k "superlight" type spec at much lower than your 20k. It could be a great place to start and either move on from (you won't loose anything in depreciation at that price point) or stay at.
Get to drive a couple and see what you think.
Some say the 1.6 k-series Superlight was the purest of the cars. You don't need huge power, but it does become addictive.
I had a 1.6 supersport with the 6 speed box which was lovely, but I hankered after more power. So, I chopped it in after 2 yesrs (at pretty much what I paid for it) and I bought a Superlight R. With an aero screen and a crash helmet I drove it to (and around) Spa and the Ring - not sensible, but a brilliant memory and great for impressing the boys down the pub! When this needed some work I took it from 180bhp to 250bhp and it is now a dedicated race car. That works for me.
The lowered power cars are faster than most on track or on B roads. The higher powered cars are faster than almost anything - they can be a little scary though.
The "drive a few" suggestion is good, but it takes a while to get he feel for them. One option is to get the 138 bhp Superlight for, say, 15k and give it a whirl. If you need more poke, sell it for almost the same cash a while later. Depreciation is minimal on these so you cannot go far wrong - the only big hit is in the first few years.
I had a 1.6 supersport with the 6 speed box which was lovely, but I hankered after more power. So, I chopped it in after 2 yesrs (at pretty much what I paid for it) and I bought a Superlight R. With an aero screen and a crash helmet I drove it to (and around) Spa and the Ring - not sensible, but a brilliant memory and great for impressing the boys down the pub! When this needed some work I took it from 180bhp to 250bhp and it is now a dedicated race car. That works for me.
The lowered power cars are faster than most on track or on B roads. The higher powered cars are faster than almost anything - they can be a little scary though.
The "drive a few" suggestion is good, but it takes a while to get he feel for them. One option is to get the 138 bhp Superlight for, say, 15k and give it a whirl. If you need more poke, sell it for almost the same cash a while later. Depreciation is minimal on these so you cannot go far wrong - the only big hit is in the first few years.
Petey_H said:
Well I took the advice here and have bought a superlight Picking it up a week on Saturday, then heading straight out to the Ring and Spa for two days. Can't wait!
Excellent! Picking it up a week on Saturday, then heading straight out to the Ring and Spa for two days. Can't wait!
I've got a Superlight, great car. Awesome fun around the 'Ring and Spa as well. Private sale or from a dealer?
Petey_H said:
Counting down the days now! The seat covers were a neat touch that first caught my eye (as well as the colour!). When I looked under the bonnet it has Jenveys, a Dave Andrews head, Emerald ECU and verniers on the cams. Really nice and smooth. Getting an aeroscreen for the trip.
That's interesting. I thought caterham didn't like to touch anything that was other than standard. Things must have moved on for the better. I see it says 155bhp so it should be a very robust engine. Nice car.Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff