Advice on possible purchase
Discussion
I've been toying the with idea of Caterham for a few months now. Currently using a VX220 as a daily driver, and I know the Caterham is completely different but would absolutly love one (Driven a few on track and fallen in love)
I'd be looking at spending no more than 10k really, which from what I've seen wouldn't get me up to a Roadsport price, but there seems to be a few ex academy cars around for that price? Are they a feasable / reliable purchase for a road car? Obviously bar a few luxurys that is.
Would just like so recmomendations on what to go for really. I'd be probably doing about 10,000miles a year & probably wouldn't take it on track, just for road use with occasional airfield blat. Also, idealy I would be looking at something doing over 30mpg, I figure a K-series could easily do that but on looking through other threads on here it seems that the older X-flow models would struggle to do over 30?
Any advice would be much appreciated
I'd be looking at spending no more than 10k really, which from what I've seen wouldn't get me up to a Roadsport price, but there seems to be a few ex academy cars around for that price? Are they a feasable / reliable purchase for a road car? Obviously bar a few luxurys that is.
Would just like so recmomendations on what to go for really. I'd be probably doing about 10,000miles a year & probably wouldn't take it on track, just for road use with occasional airfield blat. Also, idealy I would be looking at something doing over 30mpg, I figure a K-series could easily do that but on looking through other threads on here it seems that the older X-flow models would struggle to do over 30?
Any advice would be much appreciated
tommobot said:
Not massively worreid about heater as surely the engine and various ancilleries sat infront of you would give off a fair ammount of heat in the cold months?
I don't have a heater in my car and I can assure you that there is very little heat transfer into the cockpit. In winter it is bloooodddyyyy cold... Its only the more modern duratec engined cars that seem to transfer heat into the cockpit.Another 
for a heater. Even with a fire-spitting Aga-powered Crossflow burning sackloads of Anthracite it gets cold. Even had the heater on a bit on the way back from Reims at the weekend. Nice and toasty.
And 30mpg in a XFlow is daydreaming. 25.....tops....driven carefully.....downhill.....with a tailwind.......and no passenger......or baggage.......and visit the bathroom before you drive anywhere.
for a heater. Even with a fire-spitting Aga-powered Crossflow burning sackloads of Anthracite it gets cold. Even had the heater on a bit on the way back from Reims at the weekend. Nice and toasty.And 30mpg in a XFlow is daydreaming. 25.....tops....driven carefully.....downhill.....with a tailwind.......and no passenger......or baggage.......and visit the bathroom before you drive anywhere.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 14th September 16:19
You'd have to be pretty hardy to do it in an ex racer. Certainly in mine. Dunno how the spec varies, but as-raced my Roadsport A (bought for about the sort of money you're talking about and great fun) gets pretty tiring on longer journies:
Pros:
Certainly in terms of sheer driving enjoyment and value for money I'd recommend an ex-racer and £10k is realistic I think. When I bought mine a factory road car of the same mechanical spec (LSD, CR box, big brakes, etc etc) usually meant buying a Superlight, which was over 50% more!
Pros:
- Heated screen provides reasonable demisting
- Luggage space is no worse than any other Caterham (still pretty dire)
- Immobiliser and MSA cut off provide some degree of security
- Best part of 40mpg in low speed (i.e. non-motorway) driving from a 1.6 Supersport K-Series
- Close ratio 'box is a nightmare on the motorway (5,500rpm at 0.8 leptons)
- No heater (and the Caterham is cold even by open car standard - I think due to the turbulence round the square windscreen)
- Unpadded race seat on mine with dubious ergonomics
- Unusual car and a fabric roof may attract unwanted attention when parked - I'd never leave anything valuable in the car or the boot, to be honest I'd be pretty worried about leaving a Seven parked round here at all - not because it's valuable, but simply because it's a bit conspicuous even compared to something like an Elise or VX220
- Un-servoed brakes and competition clutch aren't the easiest in traffic
- Personally I only have a half hood, but I'm led to believe the full hoods aren't especially good - you can leak and mist up simultaneously
- No stereo! Depending on your commute that could be irrelevant, but I need some distraction on mine
Certainly in terms of sheer driving enjoyment and value for money I'd recommend an ex-racer and £10k is realistic I think. When I bought mine a factory road car of the same mechanical spec (LSD, CR box, big brakes, etc etc) usually meant buying a Superlight, which was over 50% more!
Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 14th September 17:19
Is that the 6 speed with 3.92 diff?
I've got a Roadsport that I brought a few years ago now for £11.5Kish. It's a K Series with the VVC engine, ~150 BHP.
My Father on the other hand, has a VX220 Turbo which I have driven a fair bit.
I've got a heater in mine, but I did go through the winter before last without one and it got to -8/ -10 degree's here. The heaters not fantastic, although it heats from your waist down to boiling, it leaves your top half cold due to no upwards facing vents.
The heated screen is pretty good. The wipers are a bit naff. I find myself replacing mine yearly due to the rubber splitting. Not a bit cost, but a pain.
I find the seats more comfy that the VX and although at first, putting on a harness daily is a pain in the arse, you soon get used to it and can do it up pretty dam quick. The VX is pretty nimble like a Caterham, but only having a normal seat belt in the VX, I found you couldn't push it as much in corners and that you get thrown about your seat more. Once you're strapped in a Caterham, you're in for the drive.
I don't know if you have the Turbo VX or the N/A one. I find the VX too quite and love the noise of the Caterham when pressing the loud pedal. Tunnels or what ever, it brings a smile. Although the VX is quicker than my car, it didn't have the sense of occasion that I've come to love.
The VX cabin does have a radio unlike a Caterham (although I have seen a few 7's with CD players!), I tend to use headphones and my iphone if I'm going on a long long run. Some people use motorbike communication systems like Autocom's. Plug your satnav, phone, music passenger all in to it and it makes chatting at any speed doable.
The VX roof is easier, although you have to find somewhere to store it when off. I have just sold my original Caterham supplied roof to go with a Soft Bit's for Sevens Half Hood which is a breeze to put on. One of the best moves I made. I used to prefer getting wet on my short journey home, as i'd get just as wet putting the Pain in the arse roof on. Now I stay dry!
Boot wise, I'd say I can get more in my boot than my Father can in his VX. We both go to Le Mans every year and if you think about your packing, it's surprising what you can get in there. The Caterham boot doesn't lock though, which may be a big down point for you. I've never had anything nicked out of it though.
Caterham's are easy to work on, upgrade and modify. Current the VX is faster than my 7, but I could change that quite easy. Can be cheap to maintain if you do your own work, quite simple to do and a good car to start learning on.
My Father on the other hand, has a VX220 Turbo which I have driven a fair bit.
I've got a heater in mine, but I did go through the winter before last without one and it got to -8/ -10 degree's here. The heaters not fantastic, although it heats from your waist down to boiling, it leaves your top half cold due to no upwards facing vents.
The heated screen is pretty good. The wipers are a bit naff. I find myself replacing mine yearly due to the rubber splitting. Not a bit cost, but a pain.
I find the seats more comfy that the VX and although at first, putting on a harness daily is a pain in the arse, you soon get used to it and can do it up pretty dam quick. The VX is pretty nimble like a Caterham, but only having a normal seat belt in the VX, I found you couldn't push it as much in corners and that you get thrown about your seat more. Once you're strapped in a Caterham, you're in for the drive.
I don't know if you have the Turbo VX or the N/A one. I find the VX too quite and love the noise of the Caterham when pressing the loud pedal. Tunnels or what ever, it brings a smile. Although the VX is quicker than my car, it didn't have the sense of occasion that I've come to love.
The VX cabin does have a radio unlike a Caterham (although I have seen a few 7's with CD players!), I tend to use headphones and my iphone if I'm going on a long long run. Some people use motorbike communication systems like Autocom's. Plug your satnav, phone, music passenger all in to it and it makes chatting at any speed doable.
The VX roof is easier, although you have to find somewhere to store it when off. I have just sold my original Caterham supplied roof to go with a Soft Bit's for Sevens Half Hood which is a breeze to put on. One of the best moves I made. I used to prefer getting wet on my short journey home, as i'd get just as wet putting the Pain in the arse roof on. Now I stay dry!
Boot wise, I'd say I can get more in my boot than my Father can in his VX. We both go to Le Mans every year and if you think about your packing, it's surprising what you can get in there. The Caterham boot doesn't lock though, which may be a big down point for you. I've never had anything nicked out of it though.
Caterham's are easy to work on, upgrade and modify. Current the VX is faster than my 7, but I could change that quite easy. Can be cheap to maintain if you do your own work, quite simple to do and a good car to start learning on.
The question is about the joys of using a 7 for everyday driving. It doesn't *really* matter which 7 you are thinking of, there are set of questions you need to ask yourself. A 7 is much more hardcore than the VX.
Are you just commuting or do you do other travel as well? Do you have covered storage at home and work?
I first ran a 7 for everyday use when I had to keep it outside at home and work. I also travelled a lot to customer sites. That meant I had to use the roof a lot as I didn't have the time and inclination to take it off and put it back on twice a day. After a year, I'd had enough of that!
The actual driving was ok top on or off. I used ear defenders all the time. But in the dark, cold and torrential rain of winter on the long drive home from customer site, it was often pretty horrendous!
Bert
Are you just commuting or do you do other travel as well? Do you have covered storage at home and work?
I first ran a 7 for everyday use when I had to keep it outside at home and work. I also travelled a lot to customer sites. That meant I had to use the roof a lot as I didn't have the time and inclination to take it off and put it back on twice a day. After a year, I'd had enough of that!
The actual driving was ok top on or off. I used ear defenders all the time. But in the dark, cold and torrential rain of winter on the long drive home from customer site, it was often pretty horrendous!
Bert
Reliability's let me down on my £11k 1994 7 to be honest. It's never anything not fixable and justifiable given the way they're made and how old mine is and the use it's had, but using it everyday, you're going to get pi55ed off with it breaking down IME. Mine's a 1600K Roadsport, a 1994 car that's had an engine change. Currently off the road with knackered engine, waiting for me to take the head off. I was off on holiday in it this time, and it broke down two weeks before I was due to go. I had to buy a second car for that, and I'm still using it. Get something cheap, and have it to fall back on is my method. I went with an E36 328i because it's the opposite of the 7 because it's so comfortable!
Having said all that, I would never be without a 7 now - this is my second one, and there is nothing else like them in terms of involvement. Every other car feels crap in this regard. I say buy the absolute best you can afford, and one in the best condition possible if you need reliability. I bought an ex-racecar because it had the right mechanical bits, like LSD and 6 speed and to be honest maybe I should've bought something less tired and upgraded slowly, and I may have had less breakdowns.
Having said all that, I would never be without a 7 now - this is my second one, and there is nothing else like them in terms of involvement. Every other car feels crap in this regard. I say buy the absolute best you can afford, and one in the best condition possible if you need reliability. I bought an ex-racecar because it had the right mechanical bits, like LSD and 6 speed and to be honest maybe I should've bought something less tired and upgraded slowly, and I may have had less breakdowns.
The car would be left outside most of its time, apart from having to demist / defrost etc.. I can't see this being any major issue?
I would be worried about leaving the car unattended at work, but touch wood the VX has not attracted any negative attention and in the same public car park there is a Westfield and a Morgan that seem to get be left alone.
Is a heater able to be retrofitted?
One issue that I have thought of however is that of insurance, seeing as I am 23, and would need quite a lot of mileage on a policy is it realistic that insurance companies would do this. I tried to get insurance with Chris Knott on my VX, and got the response of need to be 25 or over etc..
I would be worried about leaving the car unattended at work, but touch wood the VX has not attracted any negative attention and in the same public car park there is a Westfield and a Morgan that seem to get be left alone.
Is a heater able to be retrofitted?
One issue that I have thought of however is that of insurance, seeing as I am 23, and would need quite a lot of mileage on a policy is it realistic that insurance companies would do this. I tried to get insurance with Chris Knott on my VX, and got the response of need to be 25 or over etc..
I guess somthing like this would be perfect for me..
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/preowned/pre...
I've noticed alot of people saying that a 6-speed box is better for the road, is the 5 speed quite long geared?
Also, I see that one has a LSD, which is a plus, but De dion rear suspension, could someone explain what this is?
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/preowned/pre...
I've noticed alot of people saying that a 6-speed box is better for the road, is the 5 speed quite long geared?
Also, I see that one has a LSD, which is a plus, but De dion rear suspension, could someone explain what this is?
Unless you are looking at a CSR chassis (or a Levante!) then Caterhams do not have independent rear suspension. Older cars had a live rear axle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_axle and this was superseded by the De Dion rear axle arrangement that is found on current S3 and SVs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Dion_tube I believe that the reasons for changing to De Dion were:
1. Parts supply became difficult
2. The De Dion is easier to set for camber (more useful for racers who like changing stuff)
3. A De Dion is supposed to be lighter (although the tubes have sometimes failed and newer ones have bracing)
4. The De Dion is supposed to be able to handle more power without enhancement.
As regards gearing, I have a 1.8K and find that the 6 speed box is great - unless you are on a motorway for any length of time. If you are planning on a lot of continental touring on major routes then perhaps 5 speed might be better. Having said that, a lot of people hold that a 1.6K with a 6 speed box is a very sweet and nimble combination.
The car you linked to also has 13" wheels as opposed to 14" ones, so you will find that replacement tyres are cheaper.
1. Parts supply became difficult
2. The De Dion is easier to set for camber (more useful for racers who like changing stuff)
3. A De Dion is supposed to be lighter (although the tubes have sometimes failed and newer ones have bracing)
4. The De Dion is supposed to be able to handle more power without enhancement.
As regards gearing, I have a 1.8K and find that the 6 speed box is great - unless you are on a motorway for any length of time. If you are planning on a lot of continental touring on major routes then perhaps 5 speed might be better. Having said that, a lot of people hold that a 1.6K with a 6 speed box is a very sweet and nimble combination.
The car you linked to also has 13" wheels as opposed to 14" ones, so you will find that replacement tyres are cheaper.
tommobot said:
I guess somthing like this would be perfect for me..
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/preowned/pre...
I've noticed alot of people saying that a 6-speed box is better for the road, is the 5 speed quite long geared?
Also, I see that one has a LSD, which is a plus, but De dion rear suspension, could someone explain what this is?
I'd say the other way round. Okay, maybe I labour the point a bit, but 6th gear in the 6-speed is actually the same ratio as 4th in the 5-speed and it's rather noisy on the motorway. Personally for regular use or any sort of distance I'd go for the 5-speed, maybe coupled to the torquier 1.8 (not that the 1.6 is lacking in that department, it'll pull 6th gear at 30mph...)http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/preowned/pre...
I've noticed alot of people saying that a 6-speed box is better for the road, is the 5 speed quite long geared?
Also, I see that one has a LSD, which is a plus, but De dion rear suspension, could someone explain what this is?
LSD is a plus for track work and hooliganism. Could make things interesting in the wet if you're half asleep driving to work - a careless prod of the throttle will probably just spin away the power with an open diff. It's not a big problem though - they're very predictable and controllable.
De dion suspension is basically a live axle that's been partially 'unpacked'. You still have a rigid beam between the two wheels, like a live axle, but the differential is mounted to the main chassis as it would be in an independent setup with the driveshafts going down to the ends of the axle. This leads to very low unsprung weight (which is a good thing!) while still retaining fundamentally a live axle layout. I think it can be lighter even than using wishbones, but I suspect the main reason is to keep things simple - you can get the weight benefit while using the same geometry as the normal live axle. The downside is you have no camber compensation - i.e. the wheels remain at a fixed angle to the axle as it tilts, changing their angle to the road (and hence the contact patch), but the wheel movements on a track or a smooth road aren't big enough to be an issue.
Basically De dion always trumps live axle and IRS can be better than both - particularly on bumpy roads, but it's benefits are debatable for a light car on a smooth track.
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