tyre choice: help please!

[surrey7er]

Hi folks,

I have had a trawl of the tyre threads, but couldnt really get a definite answer to my exact question, so any way, here goes:

I am running 13 inch wheels, 6 inch fronts, 8 inch rears. I have 2 sets of wheels.

what I would like are 2 sets of tyres:

set 1: all round, road legal tyre, very good in the wet...

set 2: road legal tyre, more suited to dry conditions and track days...

I have tried CR500s and AO48Rs, and liked both for different reasons, but what would you gents suggest?

Many thanks

[Gingerbread Man]

surrey7er said:

Hi folks,

I have had a trawl of the tyre threads, but couldnt really get a definite answer to my exact question, so any way, here goes:

I am running 13 inch wheels, 6 inch fronts, 8 inch rears. I have 2 sets of wheels.

what I would like are 2 sets of tyres:

set 1: all round, road legal tyre, very good in the wet...

set 2: road legal tyre, more suited to dry conditions and track days...

I have tried CR500s and AO48Rs, and liked both for different reasons, but what would you gents suggest?

Many thanks

You could try the Yokohama 021's or the CR500's for all round use. The 21's are a wet motor sport tyre.

021R -

Avon CR500 -

For dry and track - Toyo 888's or Yoko 48's.

Toyo 888 -

Yoko 48 -

Edited by Gingerbread Man on Saturday 11th September 13:22

[DaveK-S1]

I'd be tempted the keep the CR500 for wet all round use and use the new Avon ZZR for the dry /track use.

You would be keeping similar dia tyres on both axles so wouldn't have to start changing setup between tyre changes

Dave

[Cock Womble 7]

Gingerbread Man said:

You could try the Yokohama 021's or the CR500's for all round use. The 21's are a wet motor sport tyre.

021R -

I have those on mine and they are a very good all-round tyre.

[edb49]

I'm surprised to hear the CR500 getting recommended for wet use... it has to be absolutely drenched for me to prefer those over my Michelin slicks on the track.

[surrey7er]

thanks for your replies chaps... anyone tried KUMHO ECSTA V70A's? Are they any good in the wet?

I am struggling to find tyres in the right size at the moment... any helpful recommends gratefully welcomed!

edb49, I too have been running Michelin slicks on the track and they are brilliant... but the BiB wont let me use them on the road! What would you recommend for (road legal) wet use?

thanks again...

[edb49]

surrey7er said:

edb49, I too have been running Michelin slicks on the track and they are brilliant... but the BiB wont let me use them on the road! What would you recommend for (road legal) wet use?

To be honest I am not sure, I have only ever had CR500s as the road legal tyres on mine. It was more of a "not" recommendation than anything! I just think that CR500s in the damp/wet are lethal, they have so little grip. When I used to do road rallies that Yoko A539s were the tyre of choice for wet/muddy lanes, so they might be better than CR500s...

[ewenm]

edb49 said:

surrey7er said:

edb49, I too have been running Michelin slicks on the track and they are brilliant... but the BiB wont let me use them on the road! What would you recommend for (road legal) wet use?

To be honest I am not sure, I have only ever had CR500s as the road legal tyres on mine. It was more of a "not" recommendation than anything! I just think that CR500s in the damp/wet are lethal, they have so little grip. When I used to do road rallies that Yoko A539s were the tyre of choice for wet/muddy lanes, so they might be better than CR500s...

I run A539s on my 15"s as my tyre for all conditions all year round. Good dry grip but not outstanding obviously, wet grip is very predictable and they are pretty easy to get sideways while remaining catchable in wet or dry.

[Walton]

The new ZZR's are amazing - they'll be more supple on the road than R888/A048s, and they'll also heat up quicker due to much softer sidewalls (they've been designed for a Caterham).

When hot they really do offer amazing grip (they've got half the tread of R888s) - would be a nutter to put them anywhere near standing water though! Don't know how they got them road legal.

Edited by Walton on Saturday 11th September 20:34

[BertBert]

ACB10, the only way to go!
Bert

[iain a]

Yoko A021 - best all round road tyre and track wet I have tried.. then have a set of slicks for when it dries out on track. Sorted!

It is exactly what I have for my car.

[sfaulds]

edb49 said:

To be honest I am not sure, I have only ever had CR500s as the road legal tyres on mine. It was more of a "not" recommendation than anything! I just think that CR500s in the damp/wet are lethal, they have so little grip. When I used to do road rallies that Yoko A539s were the tyre of choice for wet/muddy lanes, so they might be better than CR500s...

What have you found to be better than a CR500 on a Caterham in the damp and wet? I'm genuinely interested, because we've tried most things, and the only thing (road-legal) that comes close in grip is a Yoko21, but they feel st, and are awful in the dry. The 539 is massively harder than a CR500, and doesn't get anywhere near it in the damp. It sounds to me like you've not actually driven a Caterham in the wet much at all?

[surrey7er]

hmmm... it seems the 21s have their fans and their detractors...

I think I will give them a go as my 'wet' set... are you guys running 185s on 6 inch wide rims? Is that OK?

cheers all...

[mickrick]

I thought the CR500's on my R300 where brilliant in the wet!
I live in Spain, and when it rains here, boy does it come down! The roads are like rivers. I found them very predictable, and very good in the dry, even on the slippery polished roads here. (Although I've had some brown trouser, understeer moments, but due to setup, and me going in too fast, rather than tyres.)
This is rain. (Not in the Caterham at the time, thank goodness!)

[edb49]

sfaulds said:

edb49 said:

To be honest I am not sure, I have only ever had CR500s as the road legal tyres on mine. It was more of a "not" recommendation than anything! I just think that CR500s in the damp/wet are lethal, they have so little grip. When I used to do road rallies that Yoko A539s were the tyre of choice for wet/muddy lanes, so they might be better than CR500s...

What have you found to be better than a CR500 on a Caterham in the damp and wet? I'm genuinely interested, because we've tried most things, and the only thing (road-legal) that comes close in grip is a Yoko21, but they feel st, and are awful in the dry. The 539 is massively harder than a CR500, and doesn't get anywhere near it in the damp. It sounds to me like you've not actually driven a Caterham in the wet much at all?

I've not done masses of wet driving, and it is only at track days. (As why would I take the car out if it was raining otherwise!) I've done four wet track days - Silverstone National, Brands Indy, Castle Combe, and Silverstone Bridge GP, so have clocked up about 800 wet miles. What I have observed is:
1) The CR500s seem very slippy-slidy in the wet, and my Michelin slicks grip much better in the wet.
2) Quite a few road cars can carry more apex speed on their road tyres than the R500 can on CR500s in the wet. However, when it gets dry it is only slicks & wings cars that carry more apex speed.

Edited by edb49 on Sunday 12th September 21:46

[thequietone]

I know it's all about personal choice and what works for one may not be for everyone but I think the you'd be mad not to use CR500's for all round use and wet trackdays and the ZZR's for the dry and sunny trackdays. Both are specificaly designed for the car and I like quite a few here will have tried just about everything else. The compounds and construction on most other tyres are for cars that weigh considerably more than a Caterham so the fact that they worked really well on something else is really pretty irrelavent.
Slicks grippier that CR500's in the wet? Granted, if they have a little heat in them slicks will be OK in the damp/slightly wet conditions (as long as they are not used/hard) but when the rain is coming down properly you change them back to the 500's?

[fcat]

Some info based on race experience, Kumho Ecsta's are very good in the dry; they come in 3 compounds, soft are good for sprints or damp to mildly wet track, OK but not brilliant in seriously wet conditions but you might need a narrower front (than ideal for dry conditions) to get it to cut through standing water - I used them at Spa this year and didn't die in the torrential rain but it was scary! I would guess they wouldn't be good on the road as they would wear out to quickly.
Mediums are excellent for short races 15-20 mins as they come up to temp quickly but seem to last for at least 2-3 race meetings. Not bad in the damp if already up to temperature. Excellent track tyre, might be good on the road too if heavy rain is avoided. Hards are good for long races and last well but take a couple of laps to come up to temperature so avoid for short sprint races. Would worry about them on the road in the wet.

All have fairly shallow tread pattern which I suspect limits the ability to disperse lots of water.

Guy who won the "swimming contest" at Spa this year was using Toyo's on the front which appear to have done quite a good job in the wet - or maybe he just had a more bottle than the rest of us !

Personally don't rate CR500's as a track tyre, but they are a fairly decent all rounder for the road.

regards
Nigel

[surrey7er]

well, I've ordered up some AO21Rs.

they will go on to replace a set of CR500s.

A question if I may: the CR500s I have on my fronts are properly worn out and have got to go (used up the last bit of legal tread on track). The rears are still fine and perfectly road legal...

Would it be a big time no-no to mix tyres, i.e: AO21Rs on the front and use up the rest of the CR500s that are on the rear? I am only talking about road use by the way, not track? I would do this in a Eurobox without hesitation, but not so sure about on a 7?

thanks again all...

[ewenm]

I think in general as long as the rears match each other and the fronts match each other you should be ok. Of course, you might find some interesting on-limit handling if grip levels are significantly different front to rear.

[Noger]

A021s are not all that grippy. I like them for road use (but they will still aquaplane in standing water) but on track maybe not so good. Decent touring type tyre, but compared to the lightweight CR500....doesn't seem like comparing the same thing. CR500/A048/R888 maybe, but don't see the A021 in there too.

Edited by Noger on Monday 13th September 16:40