Is the cage removable?
Discussion
Hello all,
You will probably be getting sick of my questions shortly but....
I have my eye on this
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/preowned/pre...
now is the full cage interchangeable with the normal roll bar? or is it welded to the chassis? Reason I ask is that my caterham will be mainly used for road driving but If I were to go on track then I would like to have the advantage of a full cage
You will probably be getting sick of my questions shortly but....
I have my eye on this
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/preowned/pre...
now is the full cage interchangeable with the normal roll bar? or is it welded to the chassis? Reason I ask is that my caterham will be mainly used for road driving but If I were to go on track then I would like to have the advantage of a full cage
Yes James it is. Uses the same mountings as the roll bar, with two aditional forward mountings behind the scuttle.
Downside is you'll have to remove the rear dampers to get at the fixings above them, if you want to remove it.
It's a roadsport cage by the way, so you can still use weather gear. So no need to remove it really.
Downside is you'll have to remove the rear dampers to get at the fixings above them, if you want to remove it.
It's a roadsport cage by the way, so you can still use weather gear. So no need to remove it really.
Ah right, Yea it was more the weather gear I was concerned about although I must admit it does look like someone has just dropped a bird cage on an old lotus!! But hey these cars aren't about their looks now are they.
I think I'm probably going to go down the ex race car route, seems to be quite good value for money doing it that way
I think I'm probably going to go down the ex race car route, seems to be quite good value for money doing it that way
James- just another couple of thoughts. If you are only doing occasional track days there is no real need for a full cage, it is very very rare for a Seven to roll other than when there is wheel-wheel contact (which really shouldn't be happening on a TD
) or if your are very unlucky to find a tyre wall etc. I've done numerous Seven-based days and never seen one go over yet (... I know, I know... now I'm tempting fate and no doubt somebody be along to say I'm wrong).
A cage does bring the advantage of stiffening up the chassis as already said and some people do like the sense of security it brings. However if you do a quick search on Blatchat you will find many experiences of cages being less than ideal for road use (restricted visibility, a chore getting in and out and for passengers etc) and you will need to check there is sufficient clearance for your head / 'skidlid', although the car you are looking at has lowered floors so you'd need to be 7ft6 for that to be an issue. If you do retain it you'll need to budget for proper cage foam padding (which looks to be missing) in case of any 'bonce/tubing' interface during an accident.
If you decide to go back to the basic bar you'll need an FIA-spec bar (£260 to buy from CC) to be trackday compliant- you'll should get at least that selling the race cage second hand (£250/£300 is usual)- just post it up on BC as a 'Superlight-curvy-hoop-style Roadsport cage'. RS cages are popular, maybe someone would be up for doing a straight swop, maybe even swopping them over for you. Getting someone to remove it for you would be a good call- they can be so-and-sos to get off if the nut fixing under the rear legs (above the shocks) has been rounded off.
Hope this helps.
) or if your are very unlucky to find a tyre wall etc. I've done numerous Seven-based days and never seen one go over yet (... I know, I know... now I'm tempting fate and no doubt somebody be along to say I'm wrong).A cage does bring the advantage of stiffening up the chassis as already said and some people do like the sense of security it brings. However if you do a quick search on Blatchat you will find many experiences of cages being less than ideal for road use (restricted visibility, a chore getting in and out and for passengers etc) and you will need to check there is sufficient clearance for your head / 'skidlid', although the car you are looking at has lowered floors so you'd need to be 7ft6 for that to be an issue. If you do retain it you'll need to budget for proper cage foam padding (which looks to be missing) in case of any 'bonce/tubing' interface during an accident.
If you decide to go back to the basic bar you'll need an FIA-spec bar (£260 to buy from CC) to be trackday compliant- you'll should get at least that selling the race cage second hand (£250/£300 is usual)- just post it up on BC as a 'Superlight-curvy-hoop-style Roadsport cage'. RS cages are popular, maybe someone would be up for doing a straight swop, maybe even swopping them over for you. Getting someone to remove it for you would be a good call- they can be so-and-sos to get off if the nut fixing under the rear legs (above the shocks) has been rounded off.
Hope this helps.
Edited by darren f on Tuesday 17th August 18:43
Thanks Matt I might just do that, I have my eye on a few different sevens at the moment. One of the things that puts me off the academy car is the lowered floor as im only 5ft 5, although I haven't even sat in it yet. Other thing is the price, I am aware that I can get more car for the money if I don't go through Caterham directly, however being my first 7 I'm thinking that going through CC might not be such a bad idea.
In regards to the cage for now I won't be doing many track days so I'm thinking the cage might be somewhat overkill. I'm planning to head down to Caterham this weekend to have a proper look at the car and go from there really.
In regards to the cage for now I won't be doing many track days so I'm thinking the cage might be somewhat overkill. I'm planning to head down to Caterham this weekend to have a proper look at the car and go from there really.
darren f said:
James- just another couple of thoughts. If you are only doing occasional track days there is no real need for a full cage, it is very very rare for a Seven to roll other than when there is wheel-wheel contact (which really shouldn't be happening on a TD) or if your are very unlucky to find a tyre wall etc. I've done numerous Seven-based days and never seen one go over yet (... I know, I know... now I'm tempting fate and no doubt somebody be along to say I'm wrong).
A cage does bring the advantage of stiffening up the chassis as already said and some people do like the sense of security it brings. However if you do a quick search on Blatchat you will find many experiences of cages being less than ideal for road use (restricted visibility, a chore getting in and out and for passengers etc) and you will need to check there is sufficient clearance for your head / 'skidlid', although the car you are looking at has lowered floors so you'd need to be 7ft6 for that to be an issue. If you do retain it you'll need to budget for proper cage foam padding (which looks to be missing) in case of any 'bonce/tubing' interface during an accident.
If you decide to go back to the basic bar you'll need an FIA-spec bar (£260 to buy from CC) to be trackday compliant- you'll should get at least that selling the race cage second hand (£250/£300 is usual)- just post it up on BC as a 'Superlight-curvy-hoop-style Roadsport cage'. RS cages are popular, maybe someone would be up for doing a straight swop, maybe even swopping them over for you. Getting someone to remove it for you would be a good call- they can be so-and-sos to get off if the nut fixing under the rear legs (above the shocks) has been rounded off.
The main benefit of the cage is the stiffening it adds to the other wise longitudinally torsionally very flexible chassis.) or if your are very unlucky to find a tyre wall etc. I've done numerous Seven-based days and never seen one go over yet (... I know, I know... now I'm tempting fate and no doubt somebody be along to say I'm wrong).A cage does bring the advantage of stiffening up the chassis as already said and some people do like the sense of security it brings. However if you do a quick search on Blatchat you will find many experiences of cages being less than ideal for road use (restricted visibility, a chore getting in and out and for passengers etc) and you will need to check there is sufficient clearance for your head / 'skidlid', although the car you are looking at has lowered floors so you'd need to be 7ft6 for that to be an issue. If you do retain it you'll need to budget for proper cage foam padding (which looks to be missing) in case of any 'bonce/tubing' interface during an accident.
If you decide to go back to the basic bar you'll need an FIA-spec bar (£260 to buy from CC) to be trackday compliant- you'll should get at least that selling the race cage second hand (£250/£300 is usual)- just post it up on BC as a 'Superlight-curvy-hoop-style Roadsport cage'. RS cages are popular, maybe someone would be up for doing a straight swop, maybe even swopping them over for you. Getting someone to remove it for you would be a good call- they can be so-and-sos to get off if the nut fixing under the rear legs (above the shocks) has been rounded off.
If your head were to touch the cage in an accident, then padding wouldn't help at all. The car is not correctly setup for you (seats, lowered floor, etc) if that were to be the case.
A classic caterham bodge, as mentioned above is that the bolt holding the rear upright section of the cage to the chassis uses bolts with the heads almost milled down flat (to accomodate the top of the damper mounts). Make sure you have a socket which fits well onto the these bolts, otherwise you're in a world of pain trying to get them out.
As ever, there is no 'real need' for any safety equipment until the time comes when you need to use it.
I use my HANS device for t/days now. I own it already and race with it, so I see no difference between a trip into the barriers at 80 mph whilst racing and whilst on a t/day. You could argue that the liklihood of this happening on a t/day is very small, although you'd feel a bit of a tw.@t having some safety gear in the back of the car and not having used it...
fergus said:
A classic caterham bodge, as mentioned above is that the bolt holding the rear upright section of the cage to the chassis uses bolts with the heads almost milled down flat (to accomodate the top of the damper mounts). Make sure you have a socket which fits well onto the these bolts, otherwise you're in a world of pain trying to get them out.
As an aside to this Fergus...you remember that certain raceprep company I was involved with? We had a spate of problems with metric cages where the bushes that was built into the mounts for the rear suspension literally sheered off. Seemed to be some kind of fatigue issue and we had the farcical situation of a shortage of cages for the championship we were running drivers in. I recall robbing an ex racer for its cage just before an event! I wonder how many of those cages are still on cars? Unless you were aware of the problem (i.e. the nut turned without tightening) you wouldn't know that your cage was not securely mounted...This is why you want a roll cage for wheel to wheel combat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWwNy4_nGSA
I first saw this on Eurosport back in 1996 or was it 97. Can't remember...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWwNy4_nGSA
I first saw this on Eurosport back in 1996 or was it 97. Can't remember...
I'm sorry but that statement is just not correct. There is nothing easy of laying on one's back drilling out 260 stainless steel rivets/side, preparing the new metal floor pan, and then installing 260 stainless steel rivets/side again. It's a right PITA that will take a day or two once you figure out the best/most efficient way to do so. Let's be fair here as this does take some planning and thinking before execution. Having replaced both sides on our SV it's doable, with the right power/air tools but not manual tools.
Incorrigible said:
You can replace the lowered floor with a standard one fairly easily, or even just raise the seat
Steve-B said:
I'm sorry but that statement is just not correct. There is nothing easy of laying on one's back drilling out 260 stainless steel rivets/side, preparing the new metal floor pan, and then installing 260 stainless steel rivets/side again. It's a right PITA that will take a day or two once you figure out the best/most efficient way to do so. Let's be fair here as this does take some planning and thinking before execution. Having replaced both sides on our SV it's doable, with the right power/air tools but not manual tools.
Why are you using stainless rivets?Incorrigible said:
You can replace the lowered floor with a standard one fairly easily, or even just raise the seat
But stainless to ally is not! You should be using monel.
Stainless is higher up the galvanic scale then mild steel anyway, so you're not achieving anything. (Apart from building up your forearms like popeye, with the rivet gun)
Although personaly, I would use ally. Then at least you're only throwing two metals into the equation.
The stainless rivets will help to rot away the mild steel chassis tubes though.
Stainless is higher up the galvanic scale then mild steel anyway, so you're not achieving anything. (Apart from building up your forearms like popeye, with the rivet gun)
Although personaly, I would use ally. Then at least you're only throwing two metals into the equation.
The stainless rivets will help to rot away the mild steel chassis tubes though.
Edited by mickrick on Friday 20th August 21:44
mickrick said:
But stainless to ally is not! You should be using monel.
Stainless is higher up the galvanic scale then mild steel anyway, so you're not achieving anything. (Apart from building up your forearms like popeye, with the rivet gun)
Although personaly, I would use ally. Then at least you're only throwing two metals into the equation.
The stainless rivets will help to rot away the mild steel chassis tubes though.
Stainless is higher up the galvanic scale then mild steel anyway, so you're not achieving anything. (Apart from building up your forearms like popeye, with the rivet gun)
Although personaly, I would use ally. Then at least you're only throwing two metals into the equation.
The stainless rivets will help to rot away the mild steel chassis tubes though.
PS don't take any metallurgy notes from BC.....
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