1.8 VVC or 1.7 XFlow?

[Cock Womble]

I am currently looking to buy my first Caterham and have been scanning the classifieds/Autotrader etc.

I think I've narrowed the search down to two "possibles".

One is a 1996 1.8 VVC (160bhp) model with 30k miles, all the necessary bits and a few extras.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1616688.htm

The other is a 1994 Supersprint 1700 Crossflow (145bhp) with 35k miles and again, with all the desirable options.

http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/CATE...

Price-wise, the XFlow is around £2k cheaper than the VVC and, less importantly, only 30 miles away from me (as opposed to 130 for the VVC).

Both look in very good condition and the descriptions suggest they have been cherished and well looked after. All in all, there is very little between them


So, a few newbie questions, if you don't mind:

Is the VVC engine "better" than the XFlow?
Would I forever wish I'd gone for the higher output if I got the XFlow?
The Supersprint has an LSD, whereas the VVC doesn't - how important is an LSD?

Thanks in advance.

[dnorth]

Try them both, they are very different engines. The VVC wants revs and more revs to get really going, so lots of gear changing. The X-flow will plod around at low revs in a high gear and pull away smartly without changing down. Depends what suits your driving style. Also, different cars can feel very different for "fit" and the handling characteristics may be quite different with and without lsd. The specs may also sway your choice - do you want traction control?! As for power, depending on what you drive at the moment, either will feel very quick compared to an "everyday" car but, after you've got used to the acceleration (and especially if you do track days) you'll want more power! And for some (Caterham) drivers, there is no such thing as "enough" power, hence the JPE, the R500, the R500 Evolution and the V8 Levante Bottom line, try as many as you can in your price range until you find one that you fall in love with!

[casbar]

My first Catrham was a xflow, great car. I now have a R300 K series, which is a different beast, easier to live with, it starts on the button every time. If going for a K series, I would look for a 6 speed box and LSD. Both cars look good, also depends whether you want flaired wings or cycle, again I've had both types, prefer cycle wings now.

[Cock Womble]

Thanks for the input chaps.

Would it make a difference if I mentioned that this would probably become my only car? Would either one be a better prospect for daily use?

[Seven Smiles]

Driving it every day?
1) Good for you, so do I
2) Xflows with their twin Webers are great fun but an injected K series is a lot less trouble and a LOT more mpg!

[Incorrigible]

Driving it everyday, fair play

Are you going to spend every weekend polishing it ? If not the gleam of the these cars will fade fairly quickly

Given the spec, the use especially, and the kind of money you're looking to spend, I would look at a 04/06 ex RSB/supergrad race car. as you'll get a much newer car ad all the gleam has already gone

But I would say that.....

[ilovecaterhams]

Hi, I owned a 1.7 Xflow for three years, and have just bought a 1.8 vvc car as its replacement.

In my humble opinion they are almost 'chalk and cheese' and as an everyday car I would say the VVC car beats the ford hands down. It will be more economical (23 mpg against 33 mpg), easier to drive in traffic and more reliable ( relatively).

X Flows are not known to withstand high mileages without major engine surgery - so in a few years racking up the mileage you might be facing a rebuild - particularly if you use the car as it was intended.

I think the VVC is good value, the X Flow is overpriced (in my opinion!)

Finally, I was finding my Ford 'slow' by modern standards - not something I can say about the VVC.

[BertBert]

That 1800 VVC didn't start life as an 1800VVC as they didn't make them back in 96. Also I think that the standard sierra box is vile! Not saying it's a bad car but you'd need to know what was what about it.

Bert

[Hedgetrimmer]

Having had a crossflow and two K series (and a VX in between) I would say the VVC would be much easier to live with. I think a 6 speed box is desireable but a 5 speed would work ok with the VVC and would make for a more relaxing drive.

[Cock Womble]

And now I've spotted this one:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1624128.htm

Which looks very nice.

[Jack_and_MLE]

dnorth said:

The VVC wants revs and more revs to get really going, so lots of gear changing

I strongly disagree with that statement, the VVC is the most torquey K series available (unmodified engines)

I have the VVC in the 21, 1st is to get out of car parks, 2nd 3rd and 4th are the play gears and fifth is the cruising.

When I'm just taking it easy, I leave it in 5Th and just use the torque to go from 30is to quite fast

Cheers

Jack

[Yellow 7]

Both could be a bit frustrating to live with - XF will need fettling, carb tweaking and balancing regularly), might throw a piston ring or as mine did a head gasket (easy to fix on XF's). The K might have the starter click problem or at anytime due to past coolant loss need a head gasket doing.

I think overall for the use you describe the K would be the best bet and the VVC is quite a nice drive out of the standard K offerings.

The XF would be upgradable to a 2l Zetec for a fair wedge (more to get throttle bodies) and of course then it's no longer original but that does not bother most...

A pal of mine had a K 1.6SS as daily driver 14-16K a year for 5-6 odd years, I think. It lasted pretty well - Engine upgrade to 190bhp (making it more fragile) and head gasket / other reliability issues got it in the end and now it is a rusty non runner of 3-4 years - shame. A bit of waxoyl before each winter would have preserved it much better.

Whichever will put a huge smile on for a long time - it's just something you have to do...

The latter one looks the nicest of the K's from the photo's. The XF looks like new externally!

Edited by Yellow 7 on Tuesday 13th April 15:05

[Chris71]

I haven't driven a cross flow in a Seven, but I have driven other cross flow engined cars (including a pre-lit Westfield) and I'd go for the K-Series. For short blasts I'm a fan of the revvier 1.6 (if you're on a budget like me and tweaked 1.8 aren't an option) and the close ratio 6-speed box, but for every day use I'd probably recommend a nice torquey 1.8 K-Series with the longer geared 5-speed box.

Kudos on using it every day. Rather you than me.

Oh, and if you plan on taking it on track a standard K-Series is said to be significantly quieter than a crossflow on carbs.

[Cock Womble 7]

I've found another which, on the face of it, appears to be the bargain of the century.

Just out of curiosity, which engine would be in a 1650cc Caterham on a 55 plate?

[ewenm]

1650cc?

[Cock Womble 7]

ewenm said:

1650cc?

That's what the advert says.

[ewenm]

Cock Womble 7 said:

ewenm said:

1650cc?

That's what the advert says.

Got a link to the advert? First impressions are that if it's "bargain of the century" and has a seemingly dubious engine size then it says "scam" to me...

Edit: The orange one? If so, manufacturer is listed as MK in the E-Bay advert, not Caterham but the car definitely looks like a Caterham. Something isn't right but as you've got the reg number, give Caterham a ring and ask them about it.

Edited by ewenm on Tuesday 13th April 18:10

[Cock Womble 7]

ewenm said:

Cock Womble 7 said:

ewenm said:

1650cc?

That's what the advert says.

Got a link to the advert? First impressions are that if it's "bargain of the century" and has a seemingly dubious engine size then it says "scam" to me...

Edit: This one? If so, manufacturer is listed as MK, not Caterham but the car definitely looks like a Caterham. Something isn't right. I'd steer clear...

It is that one (I've just PM'd you with the Autotrader advert.

Run away, you say?

[mickrick]

The VVC is a lovely tractable engine, and I dissagree with the earlier comment about it needing revs.
I've owned an R300 with the 160VVC engine, and it's very docile, and easy in traffic, but a quick little thing when you give it the loud pedal!

But I think you should try and find a K engined car with the beautiful snickety Caterham 6 speed box, and LSD.

Never driven a X flow, but I think you'd be doing a lot of fettleing to use it as an everyday car. So IMO a K engined car would be a better proposition.

[ewenm]

Debate about that very car here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

It's not entirely a Caterham...

Edited by ewenm on Tuesday 13th April 18:17