Sump Damage 1.8 K series
Discussion
Hi
Any advice or info plese.
Customer had just "cracked" the sump on our 1.8SV K Series. Don't know how bad yet and apparently turned engine off immediately.
It's one thing we really stress and the car's on 15"
How bad is this?
Any other advice?
Car's on it's way back on AA.
Many thanks
Scott
Any advice or info plese.
Customer had just "cracked" the sump on our 1.8SV K Series. Don't know how bad yet and apparently turned engine off immediately.
It's one thing we really stress and the car's on 15"
How bad is this?
Any other advice?
Car's on it's way back on AA.
Many thanks
Scott
If the engine was killed quickly as soon as they realised what had happened, you should be okay. Hopefully there is plenty of oil in the system still.
Did they say how it happened. Usual culprit is hitting a cats eye or grounding out in the bottom of a fast dip in the road with the suspension on full compression.
With a bit of luck it will be sump off, re-weld (if you can get the crack clean enough) and back on with a fresh bit of oil. Friend did his at the end of last year and it was back on an running within a few hours.
Good luck
T
Did they say how it happened. Usual culprit is hitting a cats eye or grounding out in the bottom of a fast dip in the road with the suspension on full compression.
With a bit of luck it will be sump off, re-weld (if you can get the crack clean enough) and back on with a fresh bit of oil. Friend did his at the end of last year and it was back on an running within a few hours.
Good luck
T
From experience, I feel for you. At least you wheren't there to hear the sickening noise it makes.
Mine was a raised manhole cover, but as bad as it looked, when I removed the sump, there where no cracks inside, but I changed it becuase it looked bad, and I'm pretty anal!
The worst part was the fact it had lifted the engine, and the exhuast had rolled the sideskin under. My friendly bodyshop guy rolled it back out, and blew the sideskin paint in. (For anyone with an Aztec orange car, it's Dupont G002 and a dash of AM51 bright orange.)
Check the engine mounts. And also check the engine mount bracket where it bolts to the block.
I had a squeek I couldn't locate for ages. Turned out to be the right hand side mounting bracket bolt had wound itself out!
Hope it turns out to be nothing.
Edited by mickrick on Sunday 4th April 19:08
When I dropped my sump for a full oil change, I noticed two cracks in the sump. Don't know how long they'd been there or if I / previous owner did it.
I found a guy who welded alu, (I have to say that this was the hardest part of the oil change!) and he welded them back up for £25 within a day. You'll never get all the oil out of the cracks, but clean what you can.
I found a guy who welded alu, (I have to say that this was the hardest part of the oil change!) and he welded them back up for £25 within a day. You'll never get all the oil out of the cracks, but clean what you can.
Scotty
With a bit of luck, the damage will just be a bent sump - I hit a cats eye a few years ago in my SV and the noise it makes is definitely not nice. Things to check:
1) leaks in the sump
2) dents in the sump that restrict the flow of oil to the pickup in the sump
3) Engine mounts - the engine may have lifted and torn the rubbers - put a jack under the engine and see if they move apart as you lift the engine.
4) sideskin damage where the exhaust exits - may need to live with this as it costs about 2k to replace and respray a sideskin.
Unless the oil dumped all at once (which won't have happened if you have an Apollo) it is unlikely there will be engine damage unless they drove it on for a while and didn't tell you.
Steve
With a bit of luck, the damage will just be a bent sump - I hit a cats eye a few years ago in my SV and the noise it makes is definitely not nice. Things to check:
1) leaks in the sump
2) dents in the sump that restrict the flow of oil to the pickup in the sump
3) Engine mounts - the engine may have lifted and torn the rubbers - put a jack under the engine and see if they move apart as you lift the engine.
4) sideskin damage where the exhaust exits - may need to live with this as it costs about 2k to replace and respray a sideskin.
Unless the oil dumped all at once (which won't have happened if you have an Apollo) it is unlikely there will be engine damage unless they drove it on for a while and didn't tell you.
Steve
Fantastic response as ever all - many thanks.
Sadly it was a strong metal gatepost holder that got in between the fins on the sump and holed it straight through - Doesn't look good, just hoping no engine damage. Car travelled about 30 yards and looks to have lost most oil but still dripping in the garage 2 hrs later.
Sump looks like £300 plus gasket oil etc - aaaargggghhh! And need to get the car on the road asap as we're really busy.
Anyway - had a great run up to Specialist cars at Malton in the Supersport with MD 80 cameras on the front and rear numberplates - can't wait to see the footage.
Anyway, crap day for customer and us but nobdy hurt and that's what matters. We'll get through it and try and keep the cost to a minimum.
Thanks again all.
Cheers - Oily Scotty!
Sadly it was a strong metal gatepost holder that got in between the fins on the sump and holed it straight through - Doesn't look good, just hoping no engine damage. Car travelled about 30 yards and looks to have lost most oil but still dripping in the garage 2 hrs later.
Sump looks like £300 plus gasket oil etc - aaaargggghhh! And need to get the car on the road asap as we're really busy.
Anyway - had a great run up to Specialist cars at Malton in the Supersport with MD 80 cameras on the front and rear numberplates - can't wait to see the footage.
Anyway, crap day for customer and us but nobdy hurt and that's what matters. We'll get through it and try and keep the cost to a minimum.
Thanks again all.
Cheers - Oily Scotty!
michaeljclark said:
As a potential RoadSport SV owner (test drive booked for Friday) I take it you must be more aware of the condition of the road to avoid Sump Damage?
Anything sticking up 80+mm (like a rock/gatepost base/random bit of machinery/etc) can be dangerous to the sump. The road being bumpy enough to cause you to scrape/bottom out is less likely to cause serious damage but does happen.On our trip across the USA in 2005, one car was sidelined by a rock that took out the oil filter. Another was damaged by running over a massive wrench (used on the Texan nodding-donkey oil wells) which removed the sump. Both cars were repaired and back on the road within a day.
ewenm said:
Anything sticking up 80+mm (like a rock/gatepost base/random bit of machinery/etc) can be dangerous to the sump. The road being bumpy enough to cause you to scrape/bottom out is less likely to cause serious damage but does happen.
Sounds like I need to nick a ground scanning radar from the RAF 
Thanks for the heads up
Yes. The angle of the K installation is such that it is slightly "nose down" making the front edge of the sump prone to damage. By comparison the dry sump pan is tapered downwards to the rear, making the front edge substantially higher than the front edge in the wet sump install. The rear of the dry sump is however no higher due to the limit being the bottom of the bellhousing/belltank. I've run both on the same car and hit many fewer items with the d/s.
Stu.
Stu.
The wet sump has fins in front that take some of the brunt but in this case the metal post went between them. Parts on the way up from caterham so we'll see how bad tomorrow but think I'm going to fabricate some sort of guard. We also got the exhaust into body work damage as pictured above but engine mounts look OK.
Our Superlight had dry sump and even though it's on 13" vs the 15" on the SV there's still a bit more clearance.
Our Superlight had dry sump and even though it's on 13" vs the 15" on the SV there's still a bit more clearance.
Having damaged several sumps over the years, they have always caused no other damage, apart from once!
The impact of that one caused one of the sump bolts to crack the corner of the block. Possibly repairable but had another block fitted anyway.
As a result I went for uprated (stiffer) front springs, which has completely cured the tendency for the front to 'dive' on undulating roads.
Has added a bit of tramlining, but running 15" with low profile CR500's doesn't help, and it may well be better with 13" and a higher profile tyre. Also need to try a softer front anti-roll bar.
As you hire the car out, I'd seriously consider the uprated front springs (have a word with Gary May at Freestyle
The impact of that one caused one of the sump bolts to crack the corner of the block. Possibly repairable but had another block fitted anyway.
As a result I went for uprated (stiffer) front springs, which has completely cured the tendency for the front to 'dive' on undulating roads.
Has added a bit of tramlining, but running 15" with low profile CR500's doesn't help, and it may well be better with 13" and a higher profile tyre. Also need to try a softer front anti-roll bar.
As you hire the car out, I'd seriously consider the uprated front springs (have a word with Gary May at Freestyle
Looks like it's just the sump thank goodness. Still very expensive. The exhaust stuffed up the side skin as predicted too! Thanks for the input as ever all.
Will be over at harewood Hillclimb on Sun. We're sponsoring but tragically Lynda's banned me from competing in our cars (fair point probably). Going to keep my eye open for an Academy car next year I think.
Cheers
Scott.
Will be over at harewood Hillclimb on Sun. We're sponsoring but tragically Lynda's banned me from competing in our cars (fair point probably). Going to keep my eye open for an Academy car next year I think.
Cheers
Scott.
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff