Upgrade K or go Duratec?

[casbar]

Went to Combe on Friday, and managed to hit the tyre wall at Quarry So think I've done possibly 5k or so of damgage to the chassis etc. Now would be a good time to upgrade my engine whilst it is out, so the quandry is, do I upgrade my R300 engine, which is already dry sumped etc, to make about 220 bhp, or do I go the 2ltr Duratec route.

The chassis will have to go back to Arch for a new long front, side skin etc, so they could do any mods required for the Duratec fit.

My issue is as always, cash flow I want to do the upgrade, with the least financial impact to my wallet. Any ideas roughly how much my R300 engine and Pace dry sump would be worth? Which would be the cheaper upgrade, bearing in mind, I'm only looking for around 220 bhp. Probably not an easy answer to this question, but thought I would ask

[Epimetheus]

How have you done £5K of damage to the chassis? A typical long front is c.£2.5K if you do the non-Arch stuff yourself.

I guess your used R300 motor complete with RBs(they do all have RB's don't they?), dry sump system, loom, ECU, etc. etc. must be worth £3K or there abouts - it should certainly cover your long front.

'They' say a cheap, stockish, DIY Duratec install is c.£7K (inc. exhaust, ECU, etc. etc.). Not sure how accurate this is but I doubt it's a mile off.

What will it cost to get your R300 up to a decent R400 spec? Couple of grand mebee

So, options are:
1. c.£4.5K for fixed car with decent R400 power.
2. c.£6.5K for fixed car with a wet sump Duratec.

I guess resale will be a bit better with the Duratec and if it blows up you can just swap the motor (a lot cheaper than repairing a grenaded R400).
So, all things considered - well, all I can think of; it's pretty even stevens.
Long term resale considered, and certainly if you were going to go Duratec at some point, you may as well go Duratec now. Short term, it'll be more hastle than staying K, but no pain, no gain as they say.

You could always put a Busa in


BTW: even if you keep the K, get Bruce to put a Duratec compatible long front on (different buttom tubes and maybe other bits - should be a no cost option if he's in a good mood). Having removable diagionals is also a nice option to take (this facilitates bike engine fitting so you may as well have them than not).

Edited by Epimetheus on Sunday 28th March 12:35

[fergus]

casbar said:

My issue is as always, cash flow I want to do the upgrade, with the least financial impact to my wallet. Any ideas roughly how much my R300 engine and Pace dry sump would be worth? Which would be the cheaper upgrade, bearing in mind, I'm only looking for around 220 bhp. Probably not an easy answer to this question, but thought I would ask

I think the D is the way forward, although at only 220hp, the K *may* offer more character. I think for a 220hp spec 2litre D, you could *almost* do a swap for your whole K assembly for a 2l D unit. The cost of the necessary ancilliaries are likely to push things up a bit though. As ever, where do you stop in terms of starters, alternator, etc! Difficult choice.

Check out BC for a guide as to how much your current K lump will fetch.

[casbar]

Epimetheus said:

How have you done £5K of damage to the chassis? A typical long front is c.£2.5K if you do the non-Arch stuff yourself.

Edited by Epimetheus on Sunday 28th March 12:35

Well apart from the long front, I'll need, steering rack, rad, top/bottom wishbones, new Nitron shock, or a least rebuilt what wasn't ripped off. Exhaust primaries are also bent, then a new wing, nose cone, bonnet, and re-spray, new tyre and anything else Millwoods find. So with a quick tot up, assumed it was around 5k ish. I have insurance, with a 1.4k excess for the trackday, so the jury is still out as to cost of repair.

Not sure about K upgrade costs, got someone looking into that for me. Is the Cat 6 speed box ok with the Duratec, or would I need another box?

Cheers, Rob

[taffyracer]

I was behind you at Combe, what happened?

Personally, hainvg cocked about with this quandy K series engines I would just get it repaired and stick with the K, the one thing I noticed when I was looking into it all was that 7 owners seem to be really fussy re engine swaps, so if it's a duratec you want then i'd sell the car and buy a duratec car rather than convert, alot less hassle

[casbar]

Got around Quarry ok, but was going a bit quick. I think on the exit, I started to drift towards the grass and put a wheel on it, and the rest was history

The K upgrade would be the easiest route I think, as it would just fit back in. At 220, I guess the K is still quite reliable.

[Mars]

K reliability has nothing to do with power output.

Include a Scholar EVO conversion for your block (go 1900cc if you can afford about 900 quid) and ensure you have steel dowels and a modern head gasket, and any question of reliability at any power output is laid to rest.

That 900 quid includes forged pistons.

[casbar]

Thanks. Got to say, I've had no issues with my current R300 engine, so a bit of a K fan, and it will certainly be a cheaper option.

[Hedgetrimmer]

Whilst the block is out I would get the bottom end balanced by Vibration Free to give you safer revs. I think the standard crank is pretty good but I wouldn't go beyond 8000 rpm. I think you will get 220 BHP at these revs but only if Dave Andrews has worked on your cylinder head to improve its flow. The r300 cylinder head will not allow enough air to flow for this kind off power output.

[casbar]

Looking for a VHPD Head and gubbins, but they are like rocking hourse st

[fergus]

Hedgetrimmer said:

Whilst the block is out I would get the bottom end balanced by Vibration Free to give you safer revs. I think the standard crank is pretty good but I wouldn't go beyond 8000 rpm. I think you will get 220 BHP at these revs but only if Dave Andrews has worked on your cylinder head to improve its flow. The r300 cylinder head will not allow enough air to flow for this kind off power output.

Flywheel and clutch cover are your main culprits here. Its the 2nd order harmonics in the crank which do the damage at high revs, esp with 'lightened' counter balances on the crank. The stock VHPD crank isn't too bad out of the factory in 1st order terms.

[fergus]

casbar said:

Looking for a VHPD Head and gubbins, but they are like rocking hourse st

DVA

I'm sure Dave's got something suitable under the 'island' in the middle of his garage?

[Steve-B]

There are a lot of the Lotus Elise guys in Oz going from VHPD -> Toyota engines, thus some very well looked after VHPD's for sale on Aussie Elises. Even with the £-AU$ conversions you'd b miles ahead and it's about £250 to ship an engine back.

A suggestion.....then keep the R300 for a spare...

[casbar]

Thanks, I'll have a look on there.

[Yellow 7]

If you have the extra money Duratec everytime.
But dry sump always.
Agree with the sell it and move on thing too.

Edited by Yellow 7 on Tuesday 30th March 22:57