New R400/500 questions?

[Walton]

After 4 years of Atom ownership, I'm looking for a bit of a change, so have been investigating a new R400/500.

The car would be mainly for track-days but also capable of short road blasts in the warmer months.

I'm going to pop-in to Caterham Midlands over the next few days for a chat, and arrange a demo, but in the meantime I've had a look at the price-list/options and think I'll be going for:

Sequential box (may not be available as was taken off list due to some 'issues' apparently!
Race dampers
Roll-over bar
Bat cut-off
Extinguisher
Nice paint
Road pack

Is there anything else that's worth specing (ultimately, I'll be looking to run the car on slicks/wets, and maybe the odd sprint/hillclimb)? e.g.

Launch control
Lowered floors
Flat floor setup
13" split rims

Finally, just how big is the performance difference between the R400 and R500, and are they virtually identical apart from engine output? (I realise neither will give the kick of my supercharged Atom!)

Are there any R400/500 owners attending any central track-days (e.g Silverstone, Bedford, Rockingham) in the near future, who are willing to have a chat/give a pax?

Thanks

Rich

[fatvik]

Hi Rich,

I bought my Caterham from CCM and dealt with Jodi. I happily recommend him to you, happy hunting

-FatVik

[Walton]

Cheers

That's the chap I spoke to over the phone - seemed helpful.

[David Long]

I bought my R400 there too. If it is like my experience I think you might be steered towards a more standard spec (for which i was grateful in the end). The standard spec is well sorted and you are better to get to know it before you opt for major upgrading. If you've got the budget then go for as much carbon as you can and the weather kit, but use the car before you go any further.

my 2p

Edited by David Long on Tuesday 16th March 09:07

[Walton]

Thanks David.

That's probably a good idea, as long as stuff can be retrofitted - for instance I've been told the seq box would be a £6k upgrade if retrofitted.

TBH, I don't think I'll go for any weather stuff. I imagine they're not fun to drive with it on, and obviously I know what I'm letting myself in for, having owned an Atom. I trailer to trackdays too.

Cheers

Rich

[fatvik]

Dude,

If you really want something as extreem as an Atom, how about an ex racer C400 or something like that? It wont have any of the creature comforts but should be pretty sorted for the track...

-FV

[David Long]

Walton said:

I know what I'm letting myself in for, having owned an Atom. I trailer to trackdays too.

Cheers

Rich

I was kind of thinking that as I wrote it!! If you've owned a Atom then you're probably better qualified than most in that respect. I suppose my point is that the standard car is a good all-rounder and that upgrades tend focus the car in one area at the cost of another. It is just that my idea of what I wanted changed as I got to know the car.

Good luck

David

[Fish]

I've owned two Atoms a 220 and a 300. I've been out of them for a couple of years now and today just visited Caterham Midlands to refresh my memory. An R400 or R500 roughly equate to a 245 and 300 respectively.

I'm looking to build one myself and fancy an R300 as I found the Atom 300 too quick for sensible use on the roads with less time for track days I'm looking for a more road orientated car. Just got to save a few more pennies now! God children are expensive...

[RobM77]

OP: Make sure you sit in cars with both lowered and normal floors before deciding; it's a matter of taste how high/low you sit. Even though I'm quite short in the body, I prefer lowered floors with tillets, although when I had a moulded seat for competition use I spaced out most of my lowered floor, so it wasn't necessary for that type of seat.

[Walton]

Fish said:

I've owned two Atoms a 220 and a 300. I've been out of them for a couple of years now and today just visited Caterham Midlands to refresh my memory. An R400 or R500 roughly equate to a 245 and 300 respectively.

I'm looking to build one myself and fancy an R300 as I found the Atom 300 too quick for sensible use on the roads with less time for track days I'm looking for a more road orientated car. Just got to save a few more pennies now! God children are expensive...

Hi James

I was there today too! I remember chatting to you a few years back at Bedford when you had just got your 300, and me my 245. Didn't you get an Aero8?

Took the R300 out for a short blast with Jodie. Obviously much slower than the Atom, and a much snugger fit, but I was very impressed overall - I'd say build quality is similar to the Atom. Apart from wanting a general change what's driving the decision is little things like:

-Only 30mins instead of 2.30hrs away.
-Quick turnaround on repairs. Apparently a few weeks at most. Ariel can sometimes take months. Reapirs much less as no exposed chassis.
-Longer development, therefore a much greater variety of track/race parts e.g. anti-roll bars, seats, tyres, baffled sump, roll-over bars etc. Atom's can also run into MSA scrutineering technical issues if competing.
-Narrower trailer, means I can get down the drive instead of a storing/driving to a nearby caravan park.
-Bit more balanced for fast track use - Atom's fun, but a can be bit frustrating sometimes when trying to go quick.
-Sounds a bit more like an old-school sportcar.

On the downside I'm sure I'll miss the attention of the Atom and the savage supercharger thrust. Has anyone had the privilege of comparing straight-line speed between the Atom and R500?

Only really hard choice is the sequential box or not? £2.5k is a lot of dough, and I really liked the manual box - easy and satisfying blipping down through the gears. Caterham don't have a seq demonstrator unfortunately. To clarify my earlier post, it appears the reason why the seq box has been temporarily removed from the options list is due to an IVA(SVA) issue - not anything concerning performance, reliability, safety etc.

Think I'll put a deposit down, and try an get some pax rides, if I later decide against, I'll only lose a £100 admin fee. Deliveries running at Early Aug.

[RobM77]

Don't forget the excellent owner's club for Caterhams. It's one of the best out there.

[Walton]

RobM77 said:

Don't forget the excellent owner's club for Caterhams. It's one of the best out there.

Will do. It appears I have to do something old fashioned like post a direct debit form off before I can post on Blatchat though!

[James.S]

I have driven Atom 300SC, D300Race, C400Race, R400K & R500K

The R400 is comparable with the 245, the 500 is certainly a match for the 300, i belive the duratec version probably more so. The Atom is taller than the Cat, with a higher COG.....i have yet to see a 300 keep up a 300 or 400 race car round a circuit.

If it is all track the C400 race cars are a bargain...although many are being bought up for use in Europe, far more of a handful than a D300 and much quicker round a circuit than an Atom.

Road 400 or 500 - I would go for race dampers, lowered floor, aero screen, brake bias, and you will have an awesome time in either engine format. I would throw any cash that leaves me at someone like simonmason.com and develop you driving to the cars capabilities.

Best of luck

[James.S]

PS....the owners club is a bit up its own arse tbh.

More sunday drivers/polisher/fettlers than the track scene and still hung up about whether it is a lotus. Which it isn't. It's a Caterham.

[Mrs Fish]

Hi

James here again.

Yep I thoroughly enjoyed my Atoms and think they are a great machine. I've very nearly bought an R400 K series before. I just fancy something slightly less hardcore as I can't do the track days much any longer and I want to build it myself. I'm hoping the fact I have been away from fast cars for a few years will mean the R300 seems quick enough. I can always pep it up though.

Unfortunately the property business just needs to pick up a bit quicker....

Fancy R300 in orange, have now learnt I fit into a standard one just so might not bother with an SV.

Glad you enjoyed your Atoms.

P.S. Did debate an Aero 8 but now sensible as I have two boys, hence can't bugger off at the weekends for track days etc...

Edited by Mrs Fish on Tuesday 16th March 21:30

[Yellow 7]

I assume dry sump and LSD are standard - Roll cage and aeroscreen would be on my list too.
If you are going to have a fast car you might as well have one that feels really fast! But the screen / sidescreens and a heater make it suitably less hardcore IMO.

Edited by Yellow 7 on Tuesday 16th March 21:27

[RobM77]

James.S said:

PS....the owners club is a bit up its own arse tbh.

More sunday drivers/polisher/fettlers than the track scene and still hung up about whether it is a lotus. Which it isn't. It's a Caterham.

I can't deny that. It's a great owners club, but strangely totally separate from Caterham racing, and even possessing a strange ambivalent dislike or jealousy towards the racing scene and especially those who are lucky enough to partake in it. When I had a road going Caterham it was all chummy, but as soon as I went into racing many people I knew from the club almost went out of their way to be not interested.

One other thing: setup can radically alter the handling of a Caterham. My racing one was a complete dog and I struggled to get out of the bottom three quarters of the grid. It was then set up properly by Simon and Peter Young and handled like a dream thereafter, gaining whole seconds of lap time in the process. If you do recruit anyone to set a car up though beware of the different specs. The first pro setup I had done for me (before I went to SY and PY) was meant for a different Supergrad spec car and it handled terribly!! I've driven a standard R300 and owned a VVC RS and both had perfectly fine setups out of the box, with nice malleable handling.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 17th March 09:20

[Graham E]

I've spent some quality time with a DR500 with:
lowered floors
sequential
launch control
13 inch rims
race spec suspension, and a few other bits.
It is a road car, and is unlikely to see track work, despite the fact all our previous 7's (bar the last R500) have been tracked or raced at some point (SLR, Superlight, R300 etc).

At first, it was horrible - but thats because we set it up like a K series car on normal springs. Now, its brilliant - very responsice and not much more bumpy than the standad setup. The stiffer springs also mean that you don;t risk the sump on compression, which is a nice change after 3 roadgoing 7's in a hilly area.

I'm still undecided on the sequential - for track work I think it will come into it's own. You can change so quickly, and not unsettle the car on change up during a bend. However for road work, where you're not pushing the envelope, I think I'd prefer the 6 speed box, which in itself is a work of automotive art. I do miss snicking upp and down the 6 speed, rather than nudging a lever etc. Also, the squential is viciously noisy - think straight cut quaife on an a series, that sort of noise.

Neither of us have tried launch yet - but if you're competing, I bet it's worth it. I can't try the launch untill the car's owner has, for obvious reasons, and equally as a road car I think it's more a novelty than useful - thr traffic light grand prix isn't really my scene.

I'm not overly tall (6 foot), but really like the lowered floors - you;re really low in the car, and it almost made aero screens bearable. We still fitted the screen / doors though, driving with a lid on stops you chatting to your passanger, and gives you hat hair every time you go out for a run.

And finally, get 13's. 15" are the 1 thing that can ruin any caterham, no matter what the spec!

[Walton]

Thanks everyone for the great advice.

I've followed a few R300/400 race cars on track days and they're devilishly hard to keep up with when driven well. On the straights the Atom can reel them in, but they can carry so much more speed into the corners, where you've got to nurse the Atom in.

Graham - were the springs that worked the ones that came with the race-damper upgrade, or something you sourced/speced yourself?

[RobM77]

Walton said:

Thanks everyone for the great advice.

I've followed a few R300/400 race cars on track days and they're devilishly hard to keep up with when driven well. On the straights the Atom can reel them in, but they can carry so much more speed into the corners, where you've got to nurse the Atom in.

The unique Caterham formula is a car that is very fast, responsive and forgiving. When you're driving a well set up Caterham on a track you're not worried that it's going to bite you at any stage, you're thinking about the track and the driving. A Caterham will reward a smooth steady hand, but won't try and kill you if you're clumsy, so it really improves your driving. Let's face it, there are far better cars out there for traction, ride and handling (the Lotus 2-11 for example), but the Caterham is still winning virtually all the track day / fast road car group tests that it enters in magazines, and there's a good reason for that. One very telling comment came in Mark Hales' now famous "attack of the clones" article for Circuit Driver, where he tried a Caterham R300 and all the replicas (Westfield, Dax, Tiger etc) - I paraphrase: "The Caterham was the least powerful car, the fastest by over a second on a wet track, and the only car he didn't spin." That says it all really.