Entry point for Caterham ownership
Discussion
Hired a Caterham twice now and loved it both times. I am thinking of taking the plunge and buying my own.
I do wonder how often I would get the chance use it though, so I am thinking I should try not to spend too much...
So, to minimize the spend on my first Caterham what is a sensible entry level for cost and spec?
Is there anyone out there that has purchased a relatively cheap Caterham and not regretted it?
Do older ones tend to be unreliable / high maintenance?
Your help would be appreciated.
I do wonder how often I would get the chance use it though, so I am thinking I should try not to spend too much...
So, to minimize the spend on my first Caterham what is a sensible entry level for cost and spec?
Is there anyone out there that has purchased a relatively cheap Caterham and not regretted it?
Do older ones tend to be unreliable / high maintenance?
Your help would be appreciated.
Caterhams have very good residuals. If you spend a (relatively) small amount on a well specc'd car in good condition and keep it in a similar manner, there is a good likelihood that you will get back a similar amount to your purchase price dependant on miles and how you treat it. There are several cheap cars out there for £8-10k and I reckon they will stay around that price for quite some time.
WRT age and reliability, Caterham owners typically don't do masses of miles per year and the cars do tend to be well maintained and looked after. The usual advice to get a local helpful owner to look over a car for you is pretty sound. Join the Lotus 7 Club for around £40 which entitles you to various discounts and to post on the club's website (www.blatchat.com) which is a mine of information
WRT age and reliability, Caterham owners typically don't do masses of miles per year and the cars do tend to be well maintained and looked after. The usual advice to get a local helpful owner to look over a car for you is pretty sound. Join the Lotus 7 Club for around £40 which entitles you to various discounts and to post on the club's website (www.blatchat.com) which is a mine of information
Sheffield said:
Is there anyone out there that has purchased a relatively cheap Caterham and not regretted it?
(So far...) yes! 
What are you looking to use the car for? Are there any features you particularly want?
I wanted something quite track-orientated, so for me the ideal spec was 6-speed box, limited slip diff, lightweight revvy K-Series (my favourite turned out to be the 1600 in Supersport trim), wide track, decent spec roll bar and so on. For that the cheapest option was an ex-racer converted for road uses and the prices started just below £10k.
They don't seem to go much cheaper than that (at least not at this time of year with that spec), but a cross-flow or Vauxhall 8v car would probably go down to about £8k in usable condition.
ETA: Just to second the bit about the residuals. I looked at the various cheaper alternatives and concluded that several of them could be more or less as good as a Caterham if built well, despite the price difference. However, there's no such thing as a cheap Caterham it appears - even the oldest and roughest hold their value pretty well, so I'd be a lot more confident of getting the original £12k, say, back on a decent Caterham than £8k back after investing in an equivalent Westie or Sylva. The other thing to bear in mind is the level of support is huge - you can get reconditioned parts from scrap yards for next-to-nothing and do it yourself like any other kit, but there's also a ready supply of parts and services from specialist companies (including Caterham itself) which can make it almost like owning a production car if you have the budget.
Edited by Chris71 on Tuesday 1st September 11:44
Thanks for the feedback, all useful stuff.
I am thinking of a more road focused spec and will probably rarely visit a track with it.
As well as weekends zipping around the Peak District I like the idea of us doing a bit of touring in it also.
The cars I hired were a Sigma 150 with 6 speed box, followed a few months later by a 1.8K series 135 also 6 speed, both in Roadsport spec.
The 150 seemed a lot less manic cruising along dual carriageways than the 135 so maybe the overall gearing was higher.
Having hired two cars that were quite new the question is have I been spoilt and will I feel an older car is too slow or not as well developed?
Will the longer gearing of a 5 speed box compromise my enjoyment?
I am encouraged to hear a sub 10K car could be OK.
It’s fantastic to be able to get feedback on these issues from this forum, thanks in advance for your further help...
I am thinking of a more road focused spec and will probably rarely visit a track with it.
As well as weekends zipping around the Peak District I like the idea of us doing a bit of touring in it also.
The cars I hired were a Sigma 150 with 6 speed box, followed a few months later by a 1.8K series 135 also 6 speed, both in Roadsport spec.
The 150 seemed a lot less manic cruising along dual carriageways than the 135 so maybe the overall gearing was higher.
Having hired two cars that were quite new the question is have I been spoilt and will I feel an older car is too slow or not as well developed?
Will the longer gearing of a 5 speed box compromise my enjoyment?
I am encouraged to hear a sub 10K car could be OK.
It’s fantastic to be able to get feedback on these issues from this forum, thanks in advance for your further help...
Sheffield said:
Thanks for the feedback, all useful stuff.
I am thinking of a more road focused spec and will probably rarely visit a track with it.
As well as weekends zipping around the Peak District I like the idea of us doing a bit of touring in it also.
The cars I hired were a Sigma 150 with 6 speed box, followed a few months later by a 1.8K series 135 also 6 speed, both in Roadsport spec.
The 150 seemed a lot less manic cruising along dual carriageways than the 135 so maybe the overall gearing was higher.
Having hired two cars that were quite new the question is have I been spoilt and will I feel an older car is too slow or not as well developed?
Will the longer gearing of a 5 speed box compromise my enjoyment?
I am encouraged to hear a sub 10K car could be OK.
It’s fantastic to be able to get feedback on these issues from this forum, thanks in advance for your further help...
Arrrrggh! Just wrote a long waffling reply which I accidentally deleted!I am thinking of a more road focused spec and will probably rarely visit a track with it.
As well as weekends zipping around the Peak District I like the idea of us doing a bit of touring in it also.
The cars I hired were a Sigma 150 with 6 speed box, followed a few months later by a 1.8K series 135 also 6 speed, both in Roadsport spec.
The 150 seemed a lot less manic cruising along dual carriageways than the 135 so maybe the overall gearing was higher.
Having hired two cars that were quite new the question is have I been spoilt and will I feel an older car is too slow or not as well developed?
Will the longer gearing of a 5 speed box compromise my enjoyment?
I am encouraged to hear a sub 10K car could be OK.
It’s fantastic to be able to get feedback on these issues from this forum, thanks in advance for your further help...
In short - £10k is borderline for a K-Series car (most likely an ex-racer) and the 1800s seem to command a premium over the 1600s. The smaller unit is revvier, but less torquey, the bigger one lazier but more relaxed. The gearbox makes a bigger difference still I'd say - the top gear in the 6 speed box is the same as 4th in the 5-speed and it is pretty frantic. Great for country lanes, but a bit of a pain for motorways. From what you've said I'd definitely go for the 5-speed box and a 1.8 if budget allows. This seems fairly representative at £14,495: http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1211099.htm
Other options are:
Vauxhall 'Red Top' 2-litre - good value, very powerful and seems to be regarded as a good touring engine, the purists will argue they make the car feel a little nose heavy on the very limit though. Rough guess £9.5-12.5k
Vauxhall 8v - not a favoured choice, seems to be regarded as the weight of its big brother, without the power. Rough guess £8-10k(?)
Ford Crossflow - old technology and, due to age, the cars will also tend to be older and more basic examples, can be tuned to reasonable power though. Rough guess £7-9.5k
(I don't know what point the Sigma starts, but I suspect it's the best part of £20k so I never looked at them to offer a comparison)
Thanks for your further thoughts (I am sure I would have enjoyed reading you rambling original message!).
I am still interested in hearing from anyone else who is running an older Caterham on how reliable it is etc.
Buying an ex racer seems like a good way of getting a relatively cheap newer car (although not necessarily the best spec for me) but it can’t help feeling my new pride and joy would have had a very harsh start to life! It will have been thrashed, maybe even crashed. What experience do people have out there of running an ex racer that has been converted to a slightly more comfort orientated road car?
I am still interested in hearing from anyone else who is running an older Caterham on how reliable it is etc.
Buying an ex racer seems like a good way of getting a relatively cheap newer car (although not necessarily the best spec for me) but it can’t help feeling my new pride and joy would have had a very harsh start to life! It will have been thrashed, maybe even crashed. What experience do people have out there of running an ex racer that has been converted to a slightly more comfort orientated road car?
age has nothing to do with it. caterhams are a bit like triggers broom - it's so easy to swap parts (including chassis') on them that you need to buy based on condition and paperwork history rather than age and mileage. i know plenty of ~10-year old caterhams with new chassis', engines, boxes, diffs etc that will be significantly better value than a 3-4 year "original" car.
i wouldn't let a race/track car history put you off either. often these cars are better maintained (and will handle significantly better) than their road-only counterparts.
Jonny
BaT
i wouldn't let a race/track car history put you off either. often these cars are better maintained (and will handle significantly better) than their road-only counterparts.
Jonny
BaT
Without wanting to dismiss what others have written. Mine was up for sale with a 128bhp 1.4 SuperSport k-series engine, de-dion rear end, new rims (13") and in fantastic condition for £9500. It had done a few miles (41k now) but it is ace and properly bomb proof, the new owner is very lucky.
In my opinion unless you are sprinting for a class win, or giving it 10/10ths on the track it is exactly right for road use. As quick from a standing start as any tin top, exactly as fast through the bends as the same cars of the era, as it has the same chassis, brakes and suspension. What I would urge you to do is buy to best spec/condition (chassis condition is ultimately the most critical part) that you can afford, probably k-series with a 6-speed box (it is better for non-motorway work and has a £800 or so premium over a 5-speed in my experience) and drive it. You can change any of it as you mature in your requirements, but far better to have one and drive than to pontificate and ultimately not have one at all.
Good luck!
BB
In my opinion unless you are sprinting for a class win, or giving it 10/10ths on the track it is exactly right for road use. As quick from a standing start as any tin top, exactly as fast through the bends as the same cars of the era, as it has the same chassis, brakes and suspension. What I would urge you to do is buy to best spec/condition (chassis condition is ultimately the most critical part) that you can afford, probably k-series with a 6-speed box (it is better for non-motorway work and has a £800 or so premium over a 5-speed in my experience) and drive it. You can change any of it as you mature in your requirements, but far better to have one and drive than to pontificate and ultimately not have one at all.
Good luck!
BB
jleroux said:
i wouldn't let a race/track car history put you off either. often these cars are better maintained (and will handle significantly better) than their road-only counterparts.
Yes . . . but there are plenty of twisted race cars as well . . . They're forever getting shunted and bodged up for the next race. They do need to be checked with this in mind, especially their front ends. Epimetheus said:
jleroux said:
i wouldn't let a race/track car history put you off either. often these cars are better maintained (and will handle significantly better) than their road-only counterparts.
Yes . . . but there are plenty of twisted race cars as well . . . They're forever getting shunted and bodged up for the next race. They do need to be checked with this in mind, especially their front ends. 
Bert
Sheffield said:
Buying an ex racer seems like a good way of getting a relatively cheap newer car (although not necessarily the best spec for me) but it can’t help feeling my new pride and joy would have had a very harsh start to life! It will have been thrashed, maybe even crashed.
Potentially true, but more often, instead, it will have had it's oil changed three times as often as recommended, it's engine will have been blueprinted to maximise its output, the suspension will be setup by someone with half a brain and it will have been driven by someone capable of detecting the smallest change in its health and correcting them. Caterham owners do seem to be a pretty clued up bunch, but I did come across some 'polishers' who wouldn't have realised a wheel was missing unless their mechanic had told them so and you're less likely to get that in racing. Likewise I'd always be a bit wary of cars that have done 200 bone-dry miles a year like some seem to - a car that's used providing it's maintained accordingly will almost always be better mechanically.
Obviously you need to go into any purchase with your eyes open, but the roughest cars I saw were neglected road cars, not ex-racers. Admittedly the best was a well looked after road car, but that was one and a half times the price for the same mechanical spec.
Badger Bill said:
"…far better to have one and drive than to pontificate and ultimately not have one at all."
That told me! Sound advice though.
A 1.4 Supersport sounds great, do doubt with 5 or 6 speed box.
I think the recurring theme here is go out and look; don’t be put off by its apparent history, find out how it has be looked after during its history…
Thanks for all your thoughts.
Need to find the car, raid the bank account and follow Badger Bill’s advice…
"…far better to have one and drive than to pontificate and ultimately not have one at all."
That told me! Sound advice though.
A 1.4 Supersport sounds great, do doubt with 5 or 6 speed box.
I think the recurring theme here is go out and look; don’t be put off by its apparent history, find out how it has be looked after during its history…
Thanks for all your thoughts.
Need to find the car, raid the bank account and follow Badger Bill’s advice…
Hello... I'm just on one year ownership of a sub 8K 96 crossflow 1600.
Had an amazing time. i bought it with 2000 genuine miles on the clock (they ARE out there!). Was never intending to get a 1600, but could not resist the value of it!
Used all months, never had the hood up, got soaked a few times. Went aero (and loved it) and then no screen at all for 1000 miles, now back to full screen for girlfriends sake. Done just about 8.5K miles. Car is driven as hard as i can most of the time, never been near a track.
Got through 1 starter motor, 1 coil, 3 alternators (!) , suspect are being fried by manifolds every 2500 miles! Also replaced A frame bush enery 2000 miles ish. Changed the oil and filter every 3000 miles. Not bad for a car averaging less than 200 miles per YEAR before I got it!
Do I regret the lesser power? No way. Quite able to keep up with most others most of the time.
Do I regret a crossflow? Again no, fantastic sound and feel, so easy to work on ond cheapest parts. Only hassle is 20mpg ish!
Please do join the club.. you'll learn loads and have a great time. Chers... Andy
Had an amazing time. i bought it with 2000 genuine miles on the clock (they ARE out there!). Was never intending to get a 1600, but could not resist the value of it!
Used all months, never had the hood up, got soaked a few times. Went aero (and loved it) and then no screen at all for 1000 miles, now back to full screen for girlfriends sake. Done just about 8.5K miles. Car is driven as hard as i can most of the time, never been near a track.
Got through 1 starter motor, 1 coil, 3 alternators (!) , suspect are being fried by manifolds every 2500 miles! Also replaced A frame bush enery 2000 miles ish. Changed the oil and filter every 3000 miles. Not bad for a car averaging less than 200 miles per YEAR before I got it!
Do I regret the lesser power? No way. Quite able to keep up with most others most of the time.
Do I regret a crossflow? Again no, fantastic sound and feel, so easy to work on ond cheapest parts. Only hassle is 20mpg ish!
Please do join the club.. you'll learn loads and have a great time. Chers... Andy
I had a similar problem with a fried starter. A piece of aluminium sheet cut, shaped and bent then afixed using the bottom two bell housing bolts seems to have done the trick. Make sure it covers the starter. If you make it long enough so you can bend it round the underside of the starter you can put a dip on the leading edge so it scoops the wind.
Epimetheus said:
jleroux said:
i wouldn't let a race/track car history put you off either. often these cars are better maintained (and will handle significantly better) than their road-only counterparts.
Yes . . . but there are plenty of twisted race cars as well . . . They're forever getting shunted and bodged up for the next race. They do need to be checked with this in mind, especially their front ends. 
But any factory repair will ensure that the chassis is straight (I've got one here, long front courtesy of Arch motors) And cars that get bent and bodged for the next race will more than likely be fixd properly before the next meeting (there are some quite well documented examples of those that aren't but buy with your eyes open and you shouldn't go far wrong)While a crash repair like this does put some pepole off, personlly I can't see why. In fact I'd prefer a car that's been recently re-assembled rather then one that's spent 10 years doing 1,000 miles a year
Hi Simon
Great to see you on here and I knew you'd get bitten by the bug. We've now had two of our hire customers go and buy one.
Phillip tried about half a dozen of all types all over the country and settled on a 6 speed Supersport. He visited us with it an R reg ('98?)and we drove them both and the only difference we noted was that our Yellow Supersport was a bit tighter and sharper and you could feel the difference between std and uprated AP brakes. Frankly, that's a bit of a 9/10ths thing. I think he did well and landed it for about £11k, Bit higher mileage and older style wheels, chrome guards and lights. Nice looking car - pic on our reviews page.
Caterham set up our cars and that also seems to make a difference. Both have fully adjustable platforms but we leave them alone.
We really did think about going for a 1.8 (poss SV) 5 speed but the new car arrives on Friday and we're holding true to the Supersport top spec 6 speed thing. Everyone loves it. The new one is in Gulf Porsche colours and has an LSD as well. Superlight R split rims and all the upgrades of the yellow car.
It has a larger race exhaust which may actually be quieter (!) so that pain in the neck cruising at 80mph noise may be less. We'll see.
I'd stick with K series and hold out for a supersport - best in my view for all round use. New car has CR500's so will be interesting to compare to the Yokohama A021's we run - the A021's are soft and seem good in wet and dry which we need. Trashed in 4000 road miles though
Best of luck and give us a shout.
Cheers
Scott.
Great to see you on here and I knew you'd get bitten by the bug. We've now had two of our hire customers go and buy one.
Phillip tried about half a dozen of all types all over the country and settled on a 6 speed Supersport. He visited us with it an R reg ('98?)and we drove them both and the only difference we noted was that our Yellow Supersport was a bit tighter and sharper and you could feel the difference between std and uprated AP brakes. Frankly, that's a bit of a 9/10ths thing. I think he did well and landed it for about £11k, Bit higher mileage and older style wheels, chrome guards and lights. Nice looking car - pic on our reviews page.
Caterham set up our cars and that also seems to make a difference. Both have fully adjustable platforms but we leave them alone.
We really did think about going for a 1.8 (poss SV) 5 speed but the new car arrives on Friday and we're holding true to the Supersport top spec 6 speed thing. Everyone loves it. The new one is in Gulf Porsche colours and has an LSD as well. Superlight R split rims and all the upgrades of the yellow car.
It has a larger race exhaust which may actually be quieter (!) so that pain in the neck cruising at 80mph noise may be less. We'll see.
I'd stick with K series and hold out for a supersport - best in my view for all round use. New car has CR500's so will be interesting to compare to the Yokohama A021's we run - the A021's are soft and seem good in wet and dry which we need. Trashed in 4000 road miles though
Best of luck and give us a shout.
Cheers
Scott.
Simon
Just another thought on the ex racing cars. An academy season is a handful of races and a few hillclimbs. Academy is typically 120bhp cars and Academy A 138 bhp. Unless they're bent, I don't see a problem.
I think the 120bhp cars woul ultimately leave you wanting more. Also, it's a fun car - if you want a tourer, get a boxster
327 miles is our one day record and a Doc at the weekend did 637 in 2 days in the Lake district.
HOWEVER - the full roll cage can be a bit of a pain - have a think about that.
Cheers
Scott.
Just another thought on the ex racing cars. An academy season is a handful of races and a few hillclimbs. Academy is typically 120bhp cars and Academy A 138 bhp. Unless they're bent, I don't see a problem.
I think the 120bhp cars woul ultimately leave you wanting more. Also, it's a fun car - if you want a tourer, get a boxster
327 miles is our one day record and a Doc at the weekend did 637 in 2 days in the Lake district.
HOWEVER - the full roll cage can be a bit of a pain - have a think about that.
Cheers
Scott.
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