Best tyres for my r500 when the cr500s are shot?
Discussion
Glib answer would be "CR500s".
In fact, I really think that it depends on which tracks that you run CR500s on, the ambient temperature and even the model of car you have. Let me give you an example. I did a trackday at Brands Indy some years ago in June in my HPC - MB rims, CR500s, 18psi all round (later dropped to 16) all temps cold. The thing understeered at Clearways after a couple of laps...dropping pressures didn't help...down to the tyres or the heavier engine or the fact it was a bloody hot day?
Fast forward to March 18th 2009 - Track and Racecars DR400 test. Drove that car on CR500s and it was good as gold - I must've put in over 20 straight laps and the car didn't understeer excessively anywhere on the circuit. Down to the car, the suspension (race settings), the fact that it was dry but not baking hot?
Oh I ran my R500 on CR500s in the damp at Cadwell last year - better grip than the slicks (no s
t sherlock)...but more telling was when I ran it on them at Hethel last month - Lotus test track, mixture of surfaces and weird radius turns including a geometrically perfect 180 degree bend...perfect for understeer...and it did...but the tyres remained consistent in grip.
I've not tried 888s or even 48Rs, so can't comment on them...
Not sure whether that helps or not?...Tango 7 - comments?...
Incidentally, I ran that HPC on ACB10s. No understeer, gripped like st on a blanket and consistent - nearest thing to slicks...but a bh on the road - dragged me into every cat I tried to overtake...
How about Yoko 32Rs?....like driving on ice when cold, good consistent grip (almost as good as ACB10s) but again, do have a tendency to follow cambers on the road
In fact, I really think that it depends on which tracks that you run CR500s on, the ambient temperature and even the model of car you have. Let me give you an example. I did a trackday at Brands Indy some years ago in June in my HPC - MB rims, CR500s, 18psi all round (later dropped to 16) all temps cold. The thing understeered at Clearways after a couple of laps...dropping pressures didn't help...down to the tyres or the heavier engine or the fact it was a bloody hot day?
Fast forward to March 18th 2009 - Track and Racecars DR400 test. Drove that car on CR500s and it was good as gold - I must've put in over 20 straight laps and the car didn't understeer excessively anywhere on the circuit. Down to the car, the suspension (race settings), the fact that it was dry but not baking hot?
Oh I ran my R500 on CR500s in the damp at Cadwell last year - better grip than the slicks (no s
t sherlock)...but more telling was when I ran it on them at Hethel last month - Lotus test track, mixture of surfaces and weird radius turns including a geometrically perfect 180 degree bend...perfect for understeer...and it did...but the tyres remained consistent in grip.I've not tried 888s or even 48Rs, so can't comment on them...
Not sure whether that helps or not?...Tango 7 - comments?...
Incidentally, I ran that HPC on ACB10s. No understeer, gripped like s
t on a blanket and consistent - nearest thing to slicks...but a bh on the road - dragged me into every cat I tried to overtake...How about Yoko 32Rs?....like driving on ice when cold, good consistent grip (almost as good as ACB10s) but again, do have a tendency to follow cambers on the road
Rubystone Many thanks for taking the time to reply. You have left me a little http/www.cunfused.com though.lol
rubystone said:
I see that you have an DR500 - I have yet to drive one of those...I'd recommend you buy yourself a decent set of radial slicks for it on a spare set of wheels (obviously...) and use its performance to the full. Slicks take the car to another dimension
rubystone, where do you get your slicks from? I am wanting to try them, but the source I have is permanently out of stock...cheers
JakeR
JakeR said:
rubystone said:
I see that you have an DR500 - I have yet to drive one of those...I'd recommend you buy yourself a decent set of radial slicks for it on a spare set of wheels (obviously...) and use its performance to the full. Slicks take the car to another dimension
rubystone, where do you get your slicks from? I am wanting to try them, but the source I have is permanently out of stock...cheers
JakeR
Ive raced on 888 Toyos in a bike engined 7 and they are very good, Kumho V70s were fantastic on my 300bhp Caterham and would lap quicker than 888s and Ao48s and suprisingly close to a full michelin slick!
Ive just bought a Csr260 which is running cr500s, Ive never been on track with them yet but from what bit of research and questions ive asked on other forums they are supposedly no where near as good as the likes of a Toyo888 or Ao48s,unless its raining or damp. Im considering switching myself and would be interested in hearing comments.
Ive just bought a Csr260 which is running cr500s, Ive never been on track with them yet but from what bit of research and questions ive asked on other forums they are supposedly no where near as good as the likes of a Toyo888 or Ao48s,unless its raining or damp. Im considering switching myself and would be interested in hearing comments.
Edited by JeffC on Sunday 5th July 21:27
I have got CR500's on both my current Blackbird and SLR and whilst I didn't like them too much on other cars at first, I have found them to be ideal on both these cars for road and track conditions esp if its moist out there. For sure, ACB10's or slicks are a much better tyre in the dry but as an all-rounder I find CR500's very hard to beat now. We have just got back from the Alps and Ring trip with the Blackbird and with soaking, cold & wet conditions in the Alps or baking dry temps at the Ring, the CR500's performed excellently - and we were pushing on quite a bit in both places!
I had new 48's on my old Blackbird and it tramlined quite a bit on the road but I was stunned by the wear rates. Less than 900 miles in total with a damp visit to Croix maybe accounting for 70-80 miles, and the tyres were more than 75% gone. Not tried 888's myself but have witnessed a few close moments with friends using these tyres in wet conditions.... ACB10's are a superb track tyre but I always found them quite demanding in normal road use as they tramline and tend to snatch a lot - but put the car on the track and they completely transform their feel and how enjoyable the car is to drive with masses of grip (in the dry)
As Ruby says, get some radial slicks and a spare set of track wheels and have a real ball on a trackday with loads of progressive grip. A place that comes highly recommended is called Sticky Slicks in the West Mids area. The CR500's will be excellent for wet weather use then or you could go the whole hog and get some wets and become a driving god when everyone else is tiptoeing round in the rain
I had new 48's on my old Blackbird and it tramlined quite a bit on the road but I was stunned by the wear rates. Less than 900 miles in total with a damp visit to Croix maybe accounting for 70-80 miles, and the tyres were more than 75% gone. Not tried 888's myself but have witnessed a few close moments with friends using these tyres in wet conditions.... ACB10's are a superb track tyre but I always found them quite demanding in normal road use as they tramline and tend to snatch a lot - but put the car on the track and they completely transform their feel and how enjoyable the car is to drive with masses of grip (in the dry)
As Ruby says, get some radial slicks and a spare set of track wheels and have a real ball on a trackday with loads of progressive grip. A place that comes highly recommended is called Sticky Slicks in the West Mids area. The CR500's will be excellent for wet weather use then or you could go the whole hog and get some wets and become a driving god when everyone else is tiptoeing round in the rain
Bought some used Michelin Radial slicks, run 13 x 6 on the front and 13 x 7 on the rear, they are great, although as they are used, would be no good for racing, but for trackdays they are a cheap option. Also managed to get some wets last year, 13 x 7 both front and back. Had to wait over a year to get those, as they are like rocking horse sh*t to get a used set.
Got mine from Protyre, who support the formula Renault series. My car is R300 power, so for 400 and 500, you may want larger profiles on the rear, but it works fine for me.
Got mine from Protyre, who support the formula Renault series. My car is R300 power, so for 400 and 500, you may want larger profiles on the rear, but it works fine for me.
BertBert said:
what about Avon radial slicks direct from Avon? Looks like you can't get ACB10's wide enough any more. Or on the slicks front, what about cast-off radical dunlop raace slicks?
Bert
Haven't pursued the Avon route yet, the Michelins are meant to be good. As to ex race slicks, as long as you have some idea of how many heat cycles they've been through, they are fine...but unless you know that for a fact, ex race slicks can be useless.Bert
Kumho Esta V70A's have proved to be pretty good on my CSR in race conditions. Available in soft,medium & hard compounds - soft really only for sprinting. Would recommend hard for track days - takes a few laps to get them hot but then they grip just as well as the mediums but won't wear out so quickly. Mediums are better for (up to 40min 'ish) races as the come up to temp quickly.
Some points to ponder...
what do you want to do, what are your priorities? Be the fastest person on the track? Have lots of fun sliding the car around hanging the tail out? Have fun at the lowest cost? How much time, effort and money are you prepared to spend on set up, spare sets of wheels, etc?
With slicks you'll be as quick as possible but they don't last long, won't work in the wet and if you do have a moment, it'll be happening more quickly and may be harder to control. But they are amazing!
R500 has a lot of power, you'll need something fairly wide on the rear - 205's would be fun for powersliding out of corners, but inadequate for ultimate performance which would require 235,245 or similar. Fronts probabaly need to be at least 205 and 215 could be interesting.
Check what rim width particular tyres require - not everything will fit on your wheels. Check the effect diammeter of the tyres - easy to get a significant change in gearing and ride height - the latter will materially effect handling unless the suspension set up is changed. Also check that the width and height of the tyrs will fit without fouling front/rear arches and bodywork.
Avoid mixing construction types between track and road - crossply v radial require significantly different camber to get the best performance and you don't want to be mucking around with that on a daily basis.
I'm sure there are some other things to consider that other will comment on....in the meantime, have fun and enjoy a stunning car!
Some points to ponder...
what do you want to do, what are your priorities? Be the fastest person on the track? Have lots of fun sliding the car around hanging the tail out? Have fun at the lowest cost? How much time, effort and money are you prepared to spend on set up, spare sets of wheels, etc?
With slicks you'll be as quick as possible but they don't last long, won't work in the wet and if you do have a moment, it'll be happening more quickly and may be harder to control. But they are amazing!
R500 has a lot of power, you'll need something fairly wide on the rear - 205's would be fun for powersliding out of corners, but inadequate for ultimate performance which would require 235,245 or similar. Fronts probabaly need to be at least 205 and 215 could be interesting.
Check what rim width particular tyres require - not everything will fit on your wheels. Check the effect diammeter of the tyres - easy to get a significant change in gearing and ride height - the latter will materially effect handling unless the suspension set up is changed. Also check that the width and height of the tyrs will fit without fouling front/rear arches and bodywork.
Avoid mixing construction types between track and road - crossply v radial require significantly different camber to get the best performance and you don't want to be mucking around with that on a daily basis.
I'm sure there are some other things to consider that other will comment on....in the meantime, have fun and enjoy a stunning car!
Slicks are totally pointless unless you are racing!!
They take a considerable time to get warm and they cool down a lot faster than you may think, for an average driver it would be too much to adapt to the differing grip levels due to the temperature differences experienced with slicks.
CR500, The new CR500 replacement, Kumho VL71??, Yoko A048 are probably the best options that you have and would work well in most conditions and also last!
They take a considerable time to get warm and they cool down a lot faster than you may think, for an average driver it would be too much to adapt to the differing grip levels due to the temperature differences experienced with slicks.
CR500, The new CR500 replacement, Kumho VL71??, Yoko A048 are probably the best options that you have and would work well in most conditions and also last!
Finchy172 said:
Slicks are totally pointless unless you are racing!!
They take a considerable time to get warm and they cool down a lot faster than you may think, for an average driver it would be too much to adapt to the differing grip levels due to the temperature differences experienced with slicks.
CR500, The new CR500 replacement, Kumho VL71??, Yoko A048 are probably the best options that you have and would work well in most conditions and also last!
Brad, I disagree - yes they take no more than a couple of laps to get up to temperature and you do need to take it easy until they do, but once warm I find them progressive and the car totally predicatable on them - in the dry.They take a considerable time to get warm and they cool down a lot faster than you may think, for an average driver it would be too much to adapt to the differing grip levels due to the temperature differences experienced with slicks.
CR500, The new CR500 replacement, Kumho VL71??, Yoko A048 are probably the best options that you have and would work well in most conditions and also last!
I am looking to go radial simply because I cannot be arsed to change my de dion ears from road to track and radials are less fussy about the effect the camber has on them than crossplies.
rubystone said:
Brad, I disagree - yes they take no more than a couple of laps to get up to temperature and you do need to take it easy until they do, but once warm I find them progressive and the car totally predicatable on them - in the dry.
Astonishing, we actually agree on something!Mind you we disagree on the heat-cycles thing. I have run some ancient slicks on my Radical. At trackdays at Dony and Snett, my trackday times were within a couple of seconds of the racers running there the previous summer. I think used slicks work very well as track day tyres even if they are well used. They can be got pretty cheaply and give more grip than treaded tyres even if they are away off the pace of "slicks at their peak". They are of course a complete pain in the arse if it rains.
Bert
on the used slick subject I used to get them from Sticky slicks an for track days are good value for money .....
but......
Over a few track sessions I tested 888 toyos, Kumho V70s (medium) , and used Michelin Slicks. Kumhos outperformed the Toyos by around 1/2 second , the biggest gain was exiting corners as they have a much smaller sidewall the car was more planted and I found you could get on the power earlier out of tighter corners, interstingly Kumhos were only 1/2 sec behind the used slicks, Im sure new slicks would have been a different story as im sure the formula renault/bmw drivers only throw them in the skip for one reason!!
P.s Also I found slicks quite grippy by the end of lap one and progresive and no worse than a road tyre..
so ito answer the o/p"s question and I think ive answered my own, Kumho V70 in medium compound to replace the Cr500s when they are shot
but......
Over a few track sessions I tested 888 toyos, Kumho V70s (medium) , and used Michelin Slicks. Kumhos outperformed the Toyos by around 1/2 second , the biggest gain was exiting corners as they have a much smaller sidewall the car was more planted and I found you could get on the power earlier out of tighter corners, interstingly Kumhos were only 1/2 sec behind the used slicks, Im sure new slicks would have been a different story as im sure the formula renault/bmw drivers only throw them in the skip for one reason!!
P.s Also I found slicks quite grippy by the end of lap one and progresive and no worse than a road tyre..
so ito answer the o/p"s question and I think ive answered my own, Kumho V70 in medium compound to replace the Cr500s when they are shot
Edited by JeffC on Monday 6th July 18:18
Hi Martin, the tyres we talked about are Yoko AO48s.
I find them great VFM compared to the cr500 and they work well in the wet compared to the Toyo 888.
Of course slicks on spare wheels would be the way to go on track but i have enough trouble getting time in the car to learn the set up i've got!
Good to meet you at the Castle and your car looks awesome.
How can you bring yourself to sell it so soon!
Cheers Mark.
I find them great VFM compared to the cr500 and they work well in the wet compared to the Toyo 888.
Of course slicks on spare wheels would be the way to go on track but i have enough trouble getting time in the car to learn the set up i've got!
Good to meet you at the Castle and your car looks awesome.
How can you bring yourself to sell it so soon!
Cheers Mark.
Hi Mark
What size do you run with the a048? Was good to chat at the castle also. The car won't be for sale for a couple of months yet, I only bought it for some summer fun on track. I must say it is stunningly quick and when it's gone i'm going to miss that kick in the back. I'm doing a day at silverstone on the 14th so am really looking forward to that. To be honest after my day at castlecombe the tyres hardly show any sign of wear so hopefuly i should get a few trackdays out of them yet.
ps thanks also to everyone else who have taken the time to reply.
Martin
What size do you run with the a048? Was good to chat at the castle also. The car won't be for sale for a couple of months yet, I only bought it for some summer fun on track. I must say it is stunningly quick and when it's gone i'm going to miss that kick in the back. I'm doing a day at silverstone on the 14th so am really looking forward to that. To be honest after my day at castlecombe the tyres hardly show any sign of wear so hopefuly i should get a few trackdays out of them yet.
ps thanks also to everyone else who have taken the time to reply.
Martin
Edited by martin thomas on Monday 6th July 19:36
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