Discussion
Gents,
Can anyone shed any light on the 21. Am I right in thinking it's basically a bone fide 7 with a full body?
Quite tempted by this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
There's gotta be a catch?
Can anyone shed any light on the 21. Am I right in thinking it's basically a bone fide 7 with a full body?
Quite tempted by this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
There's gotta be a catch?
All that glisters is not gold - or primrose apparently.
In all seriousness it will need work although it looks together - whether it is worth its current price plus the cost of anything afterwards is entirely up to the individual and these things are not always (ever?) fiscally based.
Go and see but look underneath.
In all seriousness it will need work although it looks together - whether it is worth its current price plus the cost of anything afterwards is entirely up to the individual and these things are not always (ever?) fiscally based.
Go and see but look underneath.
was 1997 still in the bad years for powder coating? Where each chassis was liberally greased beforehand to make sure it stayed on for as little time as possible?
If it's the car it's commonly thought to be, was it not standing out in the weather for a long time? Does that count as being "in storage"?
"Built to compete with the Elise" indeed. More truthfully it was built and then the elise came out and the boys at Caterham said "oh dear" or words to that effect! Shame really. It had opening doors you know!
Bert
If it's the car it's commonly thought to be, was it not standing out in the weather for a long time? Does that count as being "in storage"?
"Built to compete with the Elise" indeed. More truthfully it was built and then the elise came out and the boys at Caterham said "oh dear" or words to that effect! Shame really. It had opening doors you know!
Bert
I have a decent ammount of information regarding this car and it was viewed by a former 21 owner when in came up on Ebay in October 2008.
It was bought by the chap who is now selling it after the ad was pulled from Ebay.
BertBert, yes, it was outside for some and quite possibly all of the 9 years it was on SORN. In the previous Ebay listing it was described as having several inches of water in the footwells. You can read what the current vendor has told me on the Blatchat thread listed by 7 Sevens. There is a link through to earlier discussion from Oct 2008
It was bought by the chap who is now selling it after the ad was pulled from Ebay.
BertBert, yes, it was outside for some and quite possibly all of the 9 years it was on SORN. In the previous Ebay listing it was described as having several inches of water in the footwells. You can read what the current vendor has told me on the Blatchat thread listed by 7 Sevens. There is a link through to earlier discussion from Oct 2008
No fury. As the owner of a 21 and working with Caterham21.com, my interest is in the cars themselves. I want to see this example in the ownership of someone who loves the car and ideally someone who wants to use it, occasionally or regularly. I am certainly concerned that the next owner doesn't end up with something that is shot underneath the nice new Hammerite, I would expect most petrolheads would feel the same way.
Another owner looked at the car in October and said:
"The car certainly looks good in the pictures. The body and interior probably
wasn't too difficult to clean up and polish, but that metalwork does worry me.
It was really badly rusted, especially at the rear, most of the powder coating
had peeled off and the metal had been exposed to the elements for several
years whilst it was stored outside, with 6" of water slopping around in it.
Things like the brake calipers and discs are a bit worrying too. In reality,
there was nothing that couldn't have been covered up, but the integrity of the metal must have been weakened by the amount of rust."
I think it is fair that potential owners know that it was left outside for about 9 yeras with no more than partial cover with a tarpaulin.
If you feel that it is unfair of me to inform people of the known history of the car then that is up to you.
Another owner looked at the car in October and said:
"The car certainly looks good in the pictures. The body and interior probably
wasn't too difficult to clean up and polish, but that metalwork does worry me.
It was really badly rusted, especially at the rear, most of the powder coating
had peeled off and the metal had been exposed to the elements for several
years whilst it was stored outside, with 6" of water slopping around in it.
Things like the brake calipers and discs are a bit worrying too. In reality,
there was nothing that couldn't have been covered up, but the integrity of the metal must have been weakened by the amount of rust."
I think it is fair that potential owners know that it was left outside for about 9 yeras with no more than partial cover with a tarpaulin.
If you feel that it is unfair of me to inform people of the known history of the car then that is up to you.
And Chris (original poster). Yes, geniune Caterham 21. Yes, Genuine mileage.
There will be nothing wrong with the bodywork and the engine is the original. Leatherwork has come up a treat.
If you are serious about this go to www.caterham21.com and make contact with the informal owners group. Both David (who owns one of the oringinal press cars or I (who owns the other) can help.
There will be nothing wrong with the bodywork and the engine is the original. Leatherwork has come up a treat.
If you are serious about this go to www.caterham21.com and make contact with the informal owners group. Both David (who owns one of the oringinal press cars or I (who owns the other) can help.
Edited by Golf Juliet Tang on Tuesday 24th March 13:19
Someone is going to end up paying a lot of money for this 21 because of the low mileage and the way it has been marketed as a collectors item, so whilst the mileage is undoubtedly correct, it is better to find out now that it was in less than pristine condition for many years, whilst outside exposed to all the elements, than be taken in thinking it is a pristine and pampered unused gem. Photos of the before condition can be available to serious bidders.
The vendor is making a good profit [and there is nothing wrong with that], out of this sale, lets hope it's not at the expense of an ignorant buyer, the Caterham world is a small one after all.
The vendor is making a good profit [and there is nothing wrong with that], out of this sale, lets hope it's not at the expense of an ignorant buyer, the Caterham world is a small one after all.
More on the chassis
[quote]Frankly though, the chassis was so bad in places, especially around the back, that I cannot see how it has been repaired with no welding. I do indeed haver pictures taken last autumn, and there is clearly at least one tube with large rust holes in it, and many more with deep pitted, rusty areas.
[/quote]
The result of spending along time ignored in the Tiverton weather.
[quote]Frankly though, the chassis was so bad in places, especially around the back, that I cannot see how it has been repaired with no welding. I do indeed haver pictures taken last autumn, and there is clearly at least one tube with large rust holes in it, and many more with deep pitted, rusty areas.
[/quote]
The result of spending along time ignored in the Tiverton weather.
No, it's not that the car is either suspect or incorrectly described. But it did have a very rusty chassis, possibly not as bad as I posted earlier, with holes in the rear part of the chassis tubes, but very badly pitted in several places, with powder coating falling off in sheets. The vendor has wire brushed these numerous areas back yo metal and painted them with an anti rust paint and a thin coat of black paint, the pitting is still visible through the paint. In my opinion, he has done nothing that many people would not do, in other words tidied the car up and presented it in its' best light, it is just that although there is no doubt it has done a genuine 1,200 miles, it is not in the condition that many would assume a car with this mileage would be in, due to neglect by a previous owner.
It shows the importance of viewing the car to ascertain the condition and not making any assumptions. It is, in my opinion worth the reserve now disclosed, but I certainly wouldn't think of paying more for it - others may and that is their prerogative, but they must not be too disappointed when they see what they have bought. I think the vendor is being honest but he is selling it, and it is up to the buyer to ask the right questions, or to use the legal jargon - 'let the buyer beware'.
It shows the importance of viewing the car to ascertain the condition and not making any assumptions. It is, in my opinion worth the reserve now disclosed, but I certainly wouldn't think of paying more for it - others may and that is their prerogative, but they must not be too disappointed when they see what they have bought. I think the vendor is being honest but he is selling it, and it is up to the buyer to ask the right questions, or to use the legal jargon - 'let the buyer beware'.
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