anyone know this R500?
Discussion
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/867259.htm
seems v low mileage?
going to see it hopefully this week
thanks so much for any info
seems v low mileage?
going to see it hopefully this week
thanks so much for any info
You'll want to check whether it has had the R500 "reliability mods" done to the engine of that era. From memory, they weren't established until late summer 2001. I think the complete pack was - uprated bearings, diddy apollo tank, oil cooler, ecu controlled fan. I think the bearings was the key one.
I would guess that the selling garage know diddly about caterhams from their ad, so I would verify anything they say from an independent source (the prev owner, caterham cars, minister).
Nice looking car though, but probably too expensive (by 2-4k).
HTH
BErt
I would guess that the selling garage know diddly about caterhams from their ad, so I would verify anything they say from an independent source (the prev owner, caterham cars, minister).
Nice looking car though, but probably too expensive (by 2-4k).
HTH
BErt
I didn't say it had a hard life - I said it was much loved and in great condition but was USED hard. Isn't that what an R500 is for anyway? Nothing wrong with that.
I chatted to the original owner some time ago and was led to believe the car was trailered to the track, used properly then trailered home. Would be worth sending the ECU to Graham at Minister before purchase just to be sure - you dont want a con-rod making a rare public appearence shortly after you drive it away.
I chatted to the original owner some time ago and was led to believe the car was trailered to the track, used properly then trailered home. Would be worth sending the ECU to Graham at Minister before purchase just to be sure - you dont want a con-rod making a rare public appearence shortly after you drive it away.
Edited by Vladimir on Monday 9th February 14:44
Vladimir said:
Would be worth sending the ECU to Graham at Minister before purchase just to be sure - you dont want a con-rod making a rare public appearence shortly after you drive it away.
Very sound advice indeed Vladimir. Edited by Vladimir on Monday 9th February 14:44
The bearing mods are the key ones - also some others such as the bigger lower pulley. I don't have an Apollo tank though. They also adjusted the ECU rev limit to 8600.
Minister will have the full details on the engine in that car.
The hard life will result in fatigue more than anything which will be difficult to detect. Ie pins, bearings, springs, rod bolts may have been weakend especially if selecting too low a gear whilst on the track. Oil pressure and leakdown test would be a good start but will certainly not indicate whether anything might fail. I would negotiate a reduction to cover the cost of the engine being rebuilt by Dave Andrew at DVA power.
I'm sorry but i'm just not getting this. If you look at the car and it seems good then just buy it. You pays your money and take your chances, Just the same as any 2nd hand car. You can't chip the price saying SOMETHING MIGHT GO WRONG IN THE FUTURE. You'll be laughed out of the building.
Martin
Martin
martin thomas said:
I'm sorry but i'm just not getting this. If you look at the car and it seems good then just buy it. You pays your money and take your chances, Just the same as any 2nd hand car. You can't chip the price saying SOMETHING MIGHT GO WRONG IN THE FUTURE. You'll be laughed out of the building.
Martin
I think that this is questionable advice. A replacement R500 engine is £11k and it is therefore a large gamble given that evidence suggests it has been on the track. Of course you can chip a price in this market (or even a normal market) as most R500 are sold with engine refreshes. R500's are selling for sub £20k with recent engine rebuilds so there is a fairly large margin strapped across this one! Martin
The above is not a pessamistic view. It is a realistic view from someone owning an R500 who is aware of the issues with the engine.
Hedgetrimmer said:
martin thomas said:
I'm sorry but i'm just not getting this. If you look at the car and it seems good then just buy it. You pays your money and take your chances, Just the same as any 2nd hand car. You can't chip the price saying SOMETHING MIGHT GO WRONG IN THE FUTURE. You'll be laughed out of the building.
Martin
I think that this is questionable advice. A replacement R500 engine is £11k and it is therefore a large gamble given that evidence suggests it has been on the track. Of course you can chip a price in this market (or even a normal market) as most R500 are sold with engine refreshes. R500's are selling for sub £20k with recent engine rebuilds so there is a fairly large margin strapped across this one! Martin
The above is not a pessamistic view. It is a realistic view from someone owning an R500 who is aware of the issues with the engine.
As a recent convert to Caterhams Martin can be excused for not being aware of the grenade spec nature of the very highly tuned K series engines!
Any buyer would want a water tight guarantee, or evidence of a pretty recent rebuild of the engine before paying top dollar for a R500 in my opinion.
Any buyer would want a water tight guarantee, or evidence of a pretty recent rebuild of the engine before paying top dollar for a R500 in my opinion.
Granted all this caterham stuff is new to me. So being diplomatic about things if you managed to chip 3-4k off of the asking price of said car that would maybe pay for a good refresh of the engine, would you consider the car in question as being a good buy? It is ultra low miles after all.Even so If that discount was asked for i still wouldn't say it was because i thought something might go wrong in the future lol. More about being over valued in the 1st place.
Martin.
Martin.
martin thomas said:
Granted all this caterham stuff is new to me. So being diplomatic about things if you managed to chip 3-4k off of the asking price of said car that would maybe pay for a good refresh of the engine, would you consider the car in question as being a good buy? It is ultra low miles after all.Even so If that discount was asked for i still wouldn't say it was because i thought something might go wrong in the future lol. More about being over valued in the 1st place.
Martin.
The specific problem with the R500 is that as with any highly tuned engine it has a relatively short life. There was a recommendation from Caterham about how many track day miles to do before a rebuild. Thus if the engine is near its track day life and hasn't been refreshed, then you'd need to take that into account when buying. It's a bit like the tread on the tyres (although that's much more measurable of course!). It's easily negotiable with the seller however you want to. At the asking price, in my view it'd need to be in tip-top condition with a demonstrably recent refresh if the majority of its miles had been on track. At 4k off to do a refresh if it hasn't had one and needs one (which means you'd really have to do it), it's probably a good buy, but not outstanding.Martin.
Of course this is all speculation as we don't actually know its historyor condition in any detail!
Bert
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