Self build kits - your opinions / experiences
Discussion
I'm looking into second cars, and a Caterham is pretty much top of the list at the moment. Was wondering what people's experiences have been like with their self assembly kits? It is a considerable saving on a complete factory car - but are there hidden costs or challenges. The remaining winter and spring months would provide a perfect window for garage based tinkering, creating the car for the summer...
Any views or opinions would be gratefully received.
Any views or opinions would be gratefully received.
Never built one myself but the general consensus is you get more enjoyment out of the whole ownership thing when you self build
as to moneywise there isn't much in it overall once you take into account the higher resale of a factory built car
But it is very much down to yourself so go selfbuild if you want to not because its cheaper
as to moneywise there isn't much in it overall once you take into account the higher resale of a factory built car
But it is very much down to yourself so go selfbuild if you want to not because its cheaper
thinfourth2 said:
the higher resale of a factory built car
Hadn't really noticed that meself. I haven't seen a specific differential in resale price betw home and factory built. The factory built might have a slight added appeal for a buyer, but I am not sure how much that translates into sale price.When I sold my home built R500 it never entered the conversation.
ETA: Definitely build one if you have the chance, great fun and you will know your car inside out.
Bert
Edited by BertBert on Monday 12th January 12:39
Easy to build for anyone with a reasonable amount of care and attention to their work. I reckon every Caterham owner should build one if they have the chance and funds. If you buy a CKD kit or whatever they are called nowadays (when you can get a current prefix on the new build), everything is supplied by CC and its like a big meccano or airfix kit.
The only specialist bit of kit you might need is the 41mm socket and torque wrench to do up the big nuts on the rear driveshats and an engine hoist for around half a day. Join the Lotus 7 club though and you can bet your bottom dollar that someone will willingly lend you this stuff for free or a small charity donation.
The only specialist bit of kit you might need is the 41mm socket and torque wrench to do up the big nuts on the rear driveshats and an engine hoist for around half a day. Join the Lotus 7 club though and you can bet your bottom dollar that someone will willingly lend you this stuff for free or a small charity donation.
I'm building one at the moment and, as others have said, fairly straight forward. With respect to the advantages of a factory build over a home build I doubt you could spot the difference in most cases. As it is pretty much just assembly rather than fabrication you have either done it correcty (in which case it works) or you haven't and Caterham fix it in the post build check.
I like being able to make small changes to things as I go along which I couldn't do with a factory build. For example I lined the transmission tunnel and footwells with heat reflective sheeting to reduce footwell temperatures, added a bleed valve/filler to the coolant system by the heater, glued rather than drilled and bolted the front wings and generally just took my time and really enjoyed the whole thing.
Inevitably you come across parts of the build that will have you scratching your head although probably less so if you are doing a popular and fairly standard model where the manual is pretty comprehensive. Blatchat or these forums seem to solve most issues pretty quickly though.
I like being able to make small changes to things as I go along which I couldn't do with a factory build. For example I lined the transmission tunnel and footwells with heat reflective sheeting to reduce footwell temperatures, added a bleed valve/filler to the coolant system by the heater, glued rather than drilled and bolted the front wings and generally just took my time and really enjoyed the whole thing.
Inevitably you come across parts of the build that will have you scratching your head although probably less so if you are doing a popular and fairly standard model where the manual is pretty comprehensive. Blatchat or these forums seem to solve most issues pretty quickly though.
If you've got the time and the space then you should definitely build one yourself. I found it to be very educational, enjoyable, frustrating at times but overall extremely satisfying.
The team at Caterham are very supportive at resolving any issues (and yes you'll have some) and as a previous poster has said the Lotus 7 Club is a hugely valuable resource. You only need mention that you're building a kit in your garage and you'll have more offers of help than you can shake a stick at.
The only special tools you need are the 41mm socket for the rear hubs, torque wrench rated to 200+lbs and the cut off allen key for the gearbox filler plug.
I know every single inch of my car from having built it. You don't really save much against the purchase price of a factory built one and there is little if any difference in resale values.
At the end of the day the level of satisfaction from driving something you've built yourself is priceless.
The team at Caterham are very supportive at resolving any issues (and yes you'll have some) and as a previous poster has said the Lotus 7 Club is a hugely valuable resource. You only need mention that you're building a kit in your garage and you'll have more offers of help than you can shake a stick at.
The only special tools you need are the 41mm socket for the rear hubs, torque wrench rated to 200+lbs and the cut off allen key for the gearbox filler plug.
I know every single inch of my car from having built it. You don't really save much against the purchase price of a factory built one and there is little if any difference in resale values.
At the end of the day the level of satisfaction from driving something you've built yourself is priceless.
@ MarchHare - is the post build inspection included in the price? I wasn't aware of one (but was wondering how the vehicle was checked over before hitting the road).
I'm going to go down and spend some time chatting to them in a fortnight, but figure I'd get input from people who've done it already.
Am thinking of a Classic with the 1.6 K series engine upgrade and 6 speed box and leather seats. Given it is a kit, are there any recommended upgrades that can be done while building (other than those already mentioned)
I'm going to go down and spend some time chatting to them in a fortnight, but figure I'd get input from people who've done it already.
Am thinking of a Classic with the 1.6 K series engine upgrade and 6 speed box and leather seats. Given it is a kit, are there any recommended upgrades that can be done while building (other than those already mentioned)
When I built mine last year I got the following options added:
Very useful:
Leather seats, less vulnerable to light rain.
Momo steering wheel (but not quick release).
4 point 'road' harnesses.
Track day roll bar, needed if you want to go on track with the Lotus 7 Club.
Paint.
Nice to have:
Superlight suspension, because handling is worth more than power. (I couldn't stretch to the 13" wheels, but they would be desirable)
Side screen arm rests, which keep spray from coming under the doors.
Push button start, to make it like a racing car.
I wish I'd got:
The spare wheel, mainly for somewhere to add touring luggage and not practicable to add later.
Possibly the tonneau for easier protection when parking up.
For blatting and touring I've found this a good set of options, I only plan to go on track for fun and may get some 13" wheels and sticky tyres for those days.
ETA: Why not QR wheel? Because (some say) they wear with time and introduce play into the steering.
Very useful:
Leather seats, less vulnerable to light rain.
Momo steering wheel (but not quick release).
4 point 'road' harnesses.
Track day roll bar, needed if you want to go on track with the Lotus 7 Club.
Paint.
Nice to have:
Superlight suspension, because handling is worth more than power. (I couldn't stretch to the 13" wheels, but they would be desirable)
Side screen arm rests, which keep spray from coming under the doors.
Push button start, to make it like a racing car.
I wish I'd got:
The spare wheel, mainly for somewhere to add touring luggage and not practicable to add later.
Possibly the tonneau for easier protection when parking up.
For blatting and touring I've found this a good set of options, I only plan to go on track for fun and may get some 13" wheels and sticky tyres for those days.
ETA: Why not QR wheel? Because (some say) they wear with time and introduce play into the steering.
Edited by BadBob on Wednesday 14th January 23:25
Depending on how tall you are you might want to go for a lowered floor on the drivers side.
Big red starter button is a must ( just because!), quick release steering wheel( great anti theft device) and an LSD (you'll want one at some point at the future so may as well get one now). FIA roll bar.
If you intend to use yours for touring then you might want to spec the spare wheel carrier if only so that you can cut it off and adapt it to become easily removable.
Then when you've built yours you can become afflicted with upgradeitus and start down the slippery slope that is carbon fibre.
Big red starter button is a must ( just because!), quick release steering wheel( great anti theft device) and an LSD (you'll want one at some point at the future so may as well get one now). FIA roll bar.
If you intend to use yours for touring then you might want to spec the spare wheel carrier if only so that you can cut it off and adapt it to become easily removable.
Then when you've built yours you can become afflicted with upgradeitus and start down the slippery slope that is carbon fibre.
Post build inspection is included. I think you get 3 hour labour thrown in, technically they could charge if it took longer than that but I haven't heard of anyone being charged to rectify problems. You can Caterham to put it through the SVA test to but they will charge for this (circa £350 I think).
If you are looking for a 1.6 K series it might be worth seeing if they have any CDX kits left (that's what I'm building). They throw in about £2,000 of extras free (paint, leather seats, track day kit such as roll bar, harnesses and a limited slip dif.)
If you are looking for a 1.6 K series it might be worth seeing if they have any CDX kits left (that's what I'm building). They throw in about £2,000 of extras free (paint, leather seats, track day kit such as roll bar, harnesses and a limited slip dif.)
one of the great specs is the 1.6k supersport, 6 speed box, widetrack, LSD, apollo, 13" wheels, fast rack, big brakes.
Also - tillet seats change the driving experience hugely along with harnesses (dont even think of inertia belts)
- big red starter button (for knobs obviously)
- FIA roll bar for track days and safety
- spare wheel rack or not according to choice
- full screen or aeroscreen according to choice
- stack instruments (for poseurs obviously)
Regarding mods during build, they are good (like the stick on wings), but quite a few of the mods I tried (as I knew better than Caterham surely) weren't an improvement and went back to standard! Depends how clever you are. So for example I used flexi brake hoses at the back to make bleeding easier. What a bleeding pain they were to get right! Not really sure it was an improvement. I put in a gel battery which was ok apart from it melted from the heat of the exhaust and didn't have enough cranking volts to reliably start the car. That soon came out!
Bert
Also - tillet seats change the driving experience hugely along with harnesses (dont even think of inertia belts)
- big red starter button (for knobs obviously)
- FIA roll bar for track days and safety
- spare wheel rack or not according to choice
- full screen or aeroscreen according to choice
- stack instruments (for poseurs obviously)
Regarding mods during build, they are good (like the stick on wings), but quite a few of the mods I tried (as I knew better than Caterham surely) weren't an improvement and went back to standard! Depends how clever you are. So for example I used flexi brake hoses at the back to make bleeding easier. What a bleeding pain they were to get right! Not really sure it was an improvement. I put in a gel battery which was ok apart from it melted from the heat of the exhaust and didn't have enough cranking volts to reliably start the car. That soon came out!
Bert
When I built mine it was £2500 cheaper to build it yourself.
I'd have paid an *additional* £2500 to build it myself, if that was the requirement.
I probably bought a thousand quids-worth of tools for the build and the jobs I did on the car thereafter... but that's my OCD requiring I have the right tool for every job.
I'd have paid an *additional* £2500 to build it myself, if that was the requirement.
I probably bought a thousand quids-worth of tools for the build and the jobs I did on the car thereafter... but that's my OCD requiring I have the right tool for every job.
Mars said:
When I built mine it was £2500 cheaper to build it yourself.
I'd have paid an *additional* £2500 to build it myself, if that was the requirement.
I probably bought a thousand quids-worth of tools for the build and the jobs I did on the car thereafter... but that's my OCD requiring I have the right tool for every job.
Good point Mars, not sure I'd pay, but it was a brilliant experience Don't think I bought any tools at all for the build though. Had to borrow the fat boy socket along with a fat boy to stand on the bar for the hubs!I'd have paid an *additional* £2500 to build it myself, if that was the requirement.
I probably bought a thousand quids-worth of tools for the build and the jobs I did on the car thereafter... but that's my OCD requiring I have the right tool for every job.
BErt
Hi MArk,
Just do it, there's not too many people can say they built their own car. As others have said it's just an assembly job and if you join the club (and possibly if you don't)there are lots of people willing to help out with advice. There may be the 'odd' hicup during the build but in my experience its nothing to get excited about. All of the people that I came across at Caterham are enthusiasts and they want you to end up with a car you'll be proud of. Not even pushy in sales, Caterham Midlands were excellent with backup throughout from Dartford.
Quick overview here
Andy
Just do it, there's not too many people can say they built their own car. As others have said it's just an assembly job and if you join the club (and possibly if you don't)there are lots of people willing to help out with advice. There may be the 'odd' hicup during the build but in my experience its nothing to get excited about. All of the people that I came across at Caterham are enthusiasts and they want you to end up with a car you'll be proud of. Not even pushy in sales, Caterham Midlands were excellent with backup throughout from Dartford.
Quick overview here
Andy
"If you buy a CKD kit or whatever they are called nowadays (when you can get a current prefix on the new build), everything is supplied by CC and its like a big meccano or airfix kit."
You can get a current number plate regardless of what items or kit you buy from Caterham - The requirement is for the items to be new I think one part can be refurbed to "as new" to gain a current reg.
I built a starter kit last year and got lots of items including the engine (210 duratec from raceline), gearbox(5 speed BGH), Carbon bits (RIF) and LSD from other suppliers all new and the same as Caterham offer just cheaper.
Lots of good advice in the posts above it is very simple to build the kits and if it breaks you should be able fix it.
Andrew
You can get a current number plate regardless of what items or kit you buy from Caterham - The requirement is for the items to be new I think one part can be refurbed to "as new" to gain a current reg.
I built a starter kit last year and got lots of items including the engine (210 duratec from raceline), gearbox(5 speed BGH), Carbon bits (RIF) and LSD from other suppliers all new and the same as Caterham offer just cheaper.
Lots of good advice in the posts above it is very simple to build the kits and if it breaks you should be able fix it.
Andrew
You may find that if you order a new Classic you will get the 1600 engine for the same price, all the 1400 I believe are gone !
I have owned 3, built the 1st 2 but decided it was a LOT cheaper to buy a nearly new one this time round.
Good time to buy at the moment, get 1 as new as possible for as little price as you can haggle.
As far as building one yourself.... you could always strip the ready built one down & re build it !!
I have owned 3, built the 1st 2 but decided it was a LOT cheaper to buy a nearly new one this time round.
Good time to buy at the moment, get 1 as new as possible for as little price as you can haggle.
As far as building one yourself.... you could always strip the ready built one down & re build it !!
Mkindy said:
I built a starter kit last year and got lots of items including the engine (210 duratec from raceline), gearbox(5 speed BGH), Carbon bits (RIF) and LSD from other suppliers all new and the same as Caterham offer just cheaper.
So just to be picky, they are NOT the same as Caterham offer. They might be functionally equivalent, superior or inferior, but not the same. You will find a different buying audience for a car with a not of non-caterham parts on.Quite a few buyers look for original stuff and a specific caterham designation which you won't have unless you use a recognisable caterham spec.
Not necessarily better or worse, but not a "standard Caterham" car if that matters to you.
Bert
BertBert said:
Mkindy said:
I built a starter kit last year and got lots of items including the engine (210 duratec from raceline), gearbox(5 speed BGH), Carbon bits (RIF) and LSD from other suppliers all new and the same as Caterham offer just cheaper.
So just to be picky, they are NOT the same as Caterham offer. They might be functionally equivalent, superior or inferior, but not the same. You will find a different buying audience for a car with a not of non-caterham parts on.Quite a few buyers look for original stuff and a specific caterham designation which you won't have unless you use a recognisable caterham spec.
Not necessarily better or worse, but not a "standard Caterham" car if that matters to you.
Bert
In terms of selling the car yes the audience may be different I will have to wait and see. The return will be relative to the build cost so less than a standard, anyway I built the car to drive not sell so it was not a consideration.
Murph, in terms of money saved its very difficult to say as I did not buy all items like for like and also when you buy bits from Caterham in packages you do get a better deal than just looking at the individual item price.
I did waste a lot of time and effort looking into it and found Caterham to be very competitive in lots of areas. As an example I priced the exhaust components up buying all the individual elements Cat, silencer etc.. and it was cheaper to buy the exhaust package (everything required to the last bolt) from Caterham.
I was very keen on the 2.0 duratec and within my budget (£25,000ish) this was not possible with the R400 starting at £28,000 in its basic form. At the time around 1 year ago very few 2nd hand Duratec cars came up for sale as this would have been my first choice.
But within my budget I have built a 210bhp duratec car with LSD, lots of Carbon bits, Big Brakes, wide track, 13in wheels, tilllets, map able ECU, track day suspension kit and roll bar, custom paint etc.etc….. This car will never be a R400 and I guess this would be problem for some people.
If I had the money for the R400 I would have bought the complete kit but I felt doing the above was a good compromise to getting a quick duratec Caterham within my price limits.
I did waste a lot of time and effort looking into it and found Caterham to be very competitive in lots of areas. As an example I priced the exhaust components up buying all the individual elements Cat, silencer etc.. and it was cheaper to buy the exhaust package (everything required to the last bolt) from Caterham.
I was very keen on the 2.0 duratec and within my budget (£25,000ish) this was not possible with the R400 starting at £28,000 in its basic form. At the time around 1 year ago very few 2nd hand Duratec cars came up for sale as this would have been my first choice.
But within my budget I have built a 210bhp duratec car with LSD, lots of Carbon bits, Big Brakes, wide track, 13in wheels, tilllets, map able ECU, track day suspension kit and roll bar, custom paint etc.etc….. This car will never be a R400 and I guess this would be problem for some people.
If I had the money for the R400 I would have bought the complete kit but I felt doing the above was a good compromise to getting a quick duratec Caterham within my price limits.
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