Mad to consider an ex-race car?
Discussion
Hello
I've currently got a TVR Chimaera which I am considering replacing with a Caterham. I've done a couple of auto-tests and would like to have a go at track days too.
The best value cars seem to be ex-competition, especially the Graduates and similar. Are these a decent punt, or will they be all but destroyed by their life on track? I do need a road-legal car.
Cheers in advance.
I've currently got a TVR Chimaera which I am considering replacing with a Caterham. I've done a couple of auto-tests and would like to have a go at track days too.
The best value cars seem to be ex-competition, especially the Graduates and similar. Are these a decent punt, or will they be all but destroyed by their life on track? I do need a road-legal car.
Cheers in advance.
IMHO ex Grad cars are great value. If your not too bothered about polishing then I think they are a great way to get into Caterham ownership.
If there are any issues with the engine etc, the money you save should cover the costs of repairs, as you won't need to go to Minister or Caterham to get them fixed, as I believe the guys that are racing have too.
I would think if a car has just completed a race series it would be pretty up together.
Others will be along to offer more knowledgable advice
If there are any issues with the engine etc, the money you save should cover the costs of repairs, as you won't need to go to Minister or Caterham to get them fixed, as I believe the guys that are racing have too.
I would think if a car has just completed a race series it would be pretty up together.
Others will be along to offer more knowledgable advice
There will be quite a few around at the moment as the season has just finished and there is always a few that will drop out due to family commitments, costs, etc. In the main a race car will have been very well maintained mechanically but is quite likely to be a bit rough around the edges cosmetically. This might include a few panel dents and maybe a cracked wing or two and probably a few stone chips on the windscreen but these can be replaced cheaply if you are bothered (although body work might be a bit more expensive).
As a track car they are ideal with all the safety kit such as a full roll cage, electrical cut off switch, fire extinguisher, harnesses and, depending on which series it last ran in maybe wide track front suspension, brake bias valve, rear anti-roll bar and uprated engine internals (at least valve caps, maybe forged pistons and rods). If you are lucky it may even have two seats!
For ex Academy and Roadsports cars the engine will be in a standard state of tune (circa 120 bhp) and most will have the stickier Avon CR500 tyres - which are good for both road and track. Ex Graduate cars may have a marginally upgraded engine - not sure what, maybe cam shaft and/or ECU but, to be honest, 120 BHP is more than enough to get these cars round a track faster than most other road going vehicles. As a second year racer who also does track days I don't get passed by much, even exotic stuff and I can assure you I am no driving god!
In summary as a "mostly track" car an ex-racer is perfect. If you are looking for a "mostly road" car for occasional track days I would be a little more cautious. The full roll cage is a great safety feature but a bit of a pain otherwise as you cant use the hood very easily (it goes on but it's a bit of a bodge), it's more difficult to get in and out and fiddling around with 6 point harnesses every time you pop down to the shops might be a bore after a while. Also the race cars have shorter passenger cockpits as the battery is lower in the engine compartment and knocks 6 or 8 inches off the footwell. this makes it quite uncomfortable for a taller passenger.
So if you love track days - go for a racer and save yourself a tidy sum. If you want to do a 2,000 mile trip round France maybe you'd be better off with a more road orientated car.
As a track car they are ideal with all the safety kit such as a full roll cage, electrical cut off switch, fire extinguisher, harnesses and, depending on which series it last ran in maybe wide track front suspension, brake bias valve, rear anti-roll bar and uprated engine internals (at least valve caps, maybe forged pistons and rods). If you are lucky it may even have two seats!
For ex Academy and Roadsports cars the engine will be in a standard state of tune (circa 120 bhp) and most will have the stickier Avon CR500 tyres - which are good for both road and track. Ex Graduate cars may have a marginally upgraded engine - not sure what, maybe cam shaft and/or ECU but, to be honest, 120 BHP is more than enough to get these cars round a track faster than most other road going vehicles. As a second year racer who also does track days I don't get passed by much, even exotic stuff and I can assure you I am no driving god!
In summary as a "mostly track" car an ex-racer is perfect. If you are looking for a "mostly road" car for occasional track days I would be a little more cautious. The full roll cage is a great safety feature but a bit of a pain otherwise as you cant use the hood very easily (it goes on but it's a bit of a bodge), it's more difficult to get in and out and fiddling around with 6 point harnesses every time you pop down to the shops might be a bore after a while. Also the race cars have shorter passenger cockpits as the battery is lower in the engine compartment and knocks 6 or 8 inches off the footwell. this makes it quite uncomfortable for a taller passenger.
So if you love track days - go for a racer and save yourself a tidy sum. If you want to do a 2,000 mile trip round France maybe you'd be better off with a more road orientated car.
That's brilliant - thank you all for your advice! The idea of replacing the TVR is to have one very practical car and one very impractical car, so the lack of road kit isn't a major issue.
I didn't know about the shorter footwell - thanks for pointing that out. Luckily, the other half is only 5'3".
If anyone is selling a decent one, feel free to PM me...
I didn't know about the shorter footwell - thanks for pointing that out. Luckily, the other half is only 5'3".
If anyone is selling a decent one, feel free to PM me...
Just to confirm a couple of points in the posts above. Grads, have 3 classes.
Classics: older live axle cars (vx or ford engines 100hp).
Supers: K series cars (ex-academy), exactly like RSB from a road car perspective. 120hp.
Megas: K series cars, upgraded engine, but no windscreen, headlights.
If you are after a road car then a supers or academy or RSB would be a good choice, personally I wouldnt bother with a Mega.
An ex racecar is great if you intend to do track work, or want a bit of a project. Buying one of last years academy cars means you probably will get a very clean pretty car for the money, some of the older cars (supers and RSB) can be a bit more "worn". So it pays to look around. Note a car with good finishes will sell for more, but doesnt buy you anything for a road car. So one from further back on the grid is a great idea.
for example, I think these are good value for money as a road/track car.
http://www.graduates.org.uk/forsale/default.asp?it...
http://www.graduates.org.uk/forsale/default.asp?it...
http://www.graduates.org.uk/forsale/default.asp?it...
Classics: older live axle cars (vx or ford engines 100hp).
Supers: K series cars (ex-academy), exactly like RSB from a road car perspective. 120hp.
Megas: K series cars, upgraded engine, but no windscreen, headlights.
If you are after a road car then a supers or academy or RSB would be a good choice, personally I wouldnt bother with a Mega.
An ex racecar is great if you intend to do track work, or want a bit of a project. Buying one of last years academy cars means you probably will get a very clean pretty car for the money, some of the older cars (supers and RSB) can be a bit more "worn". So it pays to look around. Note a car with good finishes will sell for more, but doesnt buy you anything for a road car. So one from further back on the grid is a great idea.
for example, I think these are good value for money as a road/track car.
http://www.graduates.org.uk/forsale/default.asp?it...
http://www.graduates.org.uk/forsale/default.asp?it...
http://www.graduates.org.uk/forsale/default.asp?it...
Just a two penneth .....
As has been mentioned make sure the chassis is straight
Arch can replace sections of the ally individually so don't get put off by dented rear panels side skins etc
Replacing a rear panel costs ~ £450 or £800 including the basket (the steel bit the ally folds round) a lot of racers won't replace a bent basket as long as the suspension pick up points are all in the right place (and it's safe obviously) so have a good look under the back around the fuel tank
Side skins are around £200 each (fitted, depending on how much of it's replaced)
Other bodywork (wings nosecone) I get from freestyle, very good quality and slightly cheaper than Caterham
Screens are flat, so you can get a glazier to cut one and it works out very reasonably priced, I supply them for £50 fitted (Caterham price is £68 just for the glass, more for heated)
HTH
As has been mentioned make sure the chassis is straight
Arch can replace sections of the ally individually so don't get put off by dented rear panels side skins etc
Replacing a rear panel costs ~ £450 or £800 including the basket (the steel bit the ally folds round) a lot of racers won't replace a bent basket as long as the suspension pick up points are all in the right place (and it's safe obviously) so have a good look under the back around the fuel tank
Side skins are around £200 each (fitted, depending on how much of it's replaced)
Other bodywork (wings nosecone) I get from freestyle, very good quality and slightly cheaper than Caterham
Screens are flat, so you can get a glazier to cut one and it works out very reasonably priced, I supply them for £50 fitted (Caterham price is £68 just for the glass, more for heated)
HTH
Weve just purchased an ex race car. R400, engine freshly rebuilt and had a massive rebuild of the car in 2004 before it won both the rounds at snetterton. Ive ran the car in the past so couldnt miss the opportunity to purchase it.
Great value for money and would cost around 25k+ to build to the same specifications.
Just check whose run the car, what damage etc and if you google the driver im sure you can find out if it had many serious crashes.
Great value for money and would cost around 25k+ to build to the same specifications.
Just check whose run the car, what damage etc and if you google the driver im sure you can find out if it had many serious crashes.
I've got an ex Classic Grad. As others have said it's a bit rough around the edges but its been a great reliable car.
I spent last winter stripping it down, cleaning it, put two new rear wings on it (£160, changed all the fluids and its saved me quite a bit.
I wouldn't even be put off cars that have had short or long fronts replaced by Arch. It's simply new shiney bits.
I spent last winter stripping it down, cleaning it, put two new rear wings on it (£160, changed all the fluids and its saved me quite a bit.
I wouldn't even be put off cars that have had short or long fronts replaced by Arch. It's simply new shiney bits.
As long as the repairs have been done at ARCH then thats fine as they will be jigged anyway.
Skins arent really that expensive to replace so dont worry if its got gravel rash or wings need replacing.
Try looking at higher spec roadsports or R400 etc as will save you some money and have the power desired for track use.
Skins arent really that expensive to replace so dont worry if its got gravel rash or wings need replacing.
Try looking at higher spec roadsports or R400 etc as will save you some money and have the power desired for track use.
Sorry for the delay in replying - broke my computer...
Thanks to one and all for their advice - I think I will be looking for a Graduate car as a starter Caterham and to learn to drive properly in, then perhaps unleash myself on the track in a year or so's time.
Cheers again - what a decent bunch Caterham owners seem to be.
Thanks to one and all for their advice - I think I will be looking for a Graduate car as a starter Caterham and to learn to drive properly in, then perhaps unleash myself on the track in a year or so's time.
Cheers again - what a decent bunch Caterham owners seem to be.
Have a look at this one 03 plate Roadsport : http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/227872.htm
which has just been reduced to sell before Christmas.
T
which has just been reduced to sell before Christmas.
T
Carnage.
This is exactly the route i intend going down and was the recommendation made to a friend who ultimately bought an ex roadsport B car that had been converted to road use.
As it was relatively new and had been raced in a Caterham recognised series by the seller it was a lot easier to check out the history of the car by reading up on old race reports. Also a quick call to Caterham Midlands confirmed that the car had never been in a serious race accident requiring chassis work etc.
Imagine it would be difficult getting that level of information on any road going Seven that could well have been ragged senseless on track days.
As stated in other posts the ex race cars are normally mechanically very strong and well maintained.
My friends car was only about 18 months old when purchased and was approx 4 to 5K cheaper than the equivalent road going car. As it is predominantly used for Sunday morning blasts the race seats, harnesses and full cage only add to the overall enjoyment imho.
In three years of ownership i think the only problem has been the battery going flat over the winter. Hardly an issue.
If all you want is a bit of occassional fun out of a Seven then i can't think of a better and safer way to buy tbh.
This is exactly the route i intend going down and was the recommendation made to a friend who ultimately bought an ex roadsport B car that had been converted to road use.
As it was relatively new and had been raced in a Caterham recognised series by the seller it was a lot easier to check out the history of the car by reading up on old race reports. Also a quick call to Caterham Midlands confirmed that the car had never been in a serious race accident requiring chassis work etc.
Imagine it would be difficult getting that level of information on any road going Seven that could well have been ragged senseless on track days.
As stated in other posts the ex race cars are normally mechanically very strong and well maintained.
My friends car was only about 18 months old when purchased and was approx 4 to 5K cheaper than the equivalent road going car. As it is predominantly used for Sunday morning blasts the race seats, harnesses and full cage only add to the overall enjoyment imho.
In three years of ownership i think the only problem has been the battery going flat over the winter. Hardly an issue.
If all you want is a bit of occassional fun out of a Seven then i can't think of a better and safer way to buy tbh.
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