CrossFlow / Vauxhall / K-Serie / What else?...Confused !!!
Discussion
Hi all,
I am looking at used Caterhams, sub £10k and my search got me a bit confused. I am not highly technical so I am going to rely on to you guide me through the different engines and their specs, if you please!
Right, here goes then:
I saw this, www.pistonheads.com/sales/157178.htm , but I don't know much about the engine in it. Is it reliable, is it easy to service (I'm happy to do that myself if it doesn't require the skills of a Renault F1 mechanic).
Actually thisone brings another question: Live axle / De Dion / or other?
This one seems interesting, www.pistonheads.com/sales/162107.htm , but, again, how easy is it to service on your own? Is the 4 speed gearbox an issue or are they well suited to this engine. Is it reliable?
There's also the K-Serie's engined ones, now bearing in mind I used to have an MGF 1.8 and had numerous problems with the motor (probably was a bad one!), would recommend that one also? (1.4, 1.6 0r 1.8)
Basically the real question is: for a newbie, what's the best starting combination to go for?
I know, longish post but I really don't know much about these... I'll be happy to learn though.
Thanks
I am looking at used Caterhams, sub £10k and my search got me a bit confused. I am not highly technical so I am going to rely on to you guide me through the different engines and their specs, if you please!
Right, here goes then:
I saw this, www.pistonheads.com/sales/157178.htm , but I don't know much about the engine in it. Is it reliable, is it easy to service (I'm happy to do that myself if it doesn't require the skills of a Renault F1 mechanic).
Actually thisone brings another question: Live axle / De Dion / or other?
This one seems interesting, www.pistonheads.com/sales/162107.htm , but, again, how easy is it to service on your own? Is the 4 speed gearbox an issue or are they well suited to this engine. Is it reliable?
There's also the K-Serie's engined ones, now bearing in mind I used to have an MGF 1.8 and had numerous problems with the motor (probably was a bad one!), would recommend that one also? (1.4, 1.6 0r 1.8)
Basically the real question is: for a newbie, what's the best starting combination to go for?
I know, longish post but I really don't know much about these... I'll be happy to learn though.
Thanks
All are straightforward to look after (especially if you just give it to a specialist to sort when getting hands dirty seems inevitable! 
).
X-flow started in the 7 decades ago. They go quite well, and sound nice, but unless you like smelling of petrol, putting sand on your driveway, constantly having dirt under your finger nails and all those other things involved in "classic" ownership, it may be best to look at the others.
I'm no expert on the Vauxhall engines, but am not sure the one in the car you link to is the best bet (generically - not specifically that car). I believe they're heavy, and that tuning potential may not be there (if such things matter), but you should get more expert opinion on that one to be sure.
At the budget you're looking at, a K is probably the best bet.
The weakness is the same as for the MGF (head gasket), but there are easy and relatively cheap ways to prevent issues. First is to keep a very careful eye on the cooling system and not to ignore issues (thermostat not cutting in, slightly elevated temps, fan not coming on etc). Also to make sure you look after the cooling system by only putting the proper fluid in it.
Next up, you can fit massively improved head gaskets.
For a low spec K (all you'll get for 10k), these measures should be enough to see it running reliably.
On the plus side, the engine's light, cheap (in low spec form) and easy to upgrade in stages as and when you want more poke. It also revs very nicely. It's an old design now really, but this should not detract - it suits the 7 very well. Particularly if accompanied by the 6spd box...
For your 10k, you may also find a Zetec car, and possibly even a bigger engined VX or bike engined car, but the latter are likely to be not as clean. Leaving the K as a good bet for you IMO.
). X-flow started in the 7 decades ago. They go quite well, and sound nice, but unless you like smelling of petrol, putting sand on your driveway, constantly having dirt under your finger nails and all those other things involved in "classic" ownership, it may be best to look at the others.
I'm no expert on the Vauxhall engines, but am not sure the one in the car you link to is the best bet (generically - not specifically that car). I believe they're heavy, and that tuning potential may not be there (if such things matter), but you should get more expert opinion on that one to be sure.
At the budget you're looking at, a K is probably the best bet.
The weakness is the same as for the MGF (head gasket), but there are easy and relatively cheap ways to prevent issues. First is to keep a very careful eye on the cooling system and not to ignore issues (thermostat not cutting in, slightly elevated temps, fan not coming on etc). Also to make sure you look after the cooling system by only putting the proper fluid in it.
Next up, you can fit massively improved head gaskets.
For a low spec K (all you'll get for 10k), these measures should be enough to see it running reliably.
On the plus side, the engine's light, cheap (in low spec form) and easy to upgrade in stages as and when you want more poke. It also revs very nicely. It's an old design now really, but this should not detract - it suits the 7 very well. Particularly if accompanied by the 6spd box...
For your 10k, you may also find a Zetec car, and possibly even a bigger engined VX or bike engined car, but the latter are likely to be not as clean. Leaving the K as a good bet for you IMO.
I have bough my first Caterham this year a 1600 k series and i'm sure it will be more than enough to handle for at least a few years to come.
I feel it's the perfect starter plenty of power for a newbie, low maintenance and cheap to run.
I hear that the problem with the MGF is that it doesn't get enough air flow around the engine/rad and that's why they over heat and also mainly on the 1800 engine. I heard all this when enquiring which to buy I'm no expert but I'm just passing info on.
tel777
I feel it's the perfect starter plenty of power for a newbie, low maintenance and cheap to run.
I hear that the problem with the MGF is that it doesn't get enough air flow around the engine/rad and that's why they over heat and also mainly on the 1800 engine. I heard all this when enquiring which to buy I'm no expert but I'm just passing info on.
tel777
Thank you all for your advices. K-serie it seems then. Why not, I've fiddled with my MG's one enough times to know my way around it anyway. I agree with the comment regarding the airflow... it was very tight in that bay. My HG went, twice... then I was losing the revs when pulling out of a junction 
so I upgraded the throttle body but I have to admit I never fell very confident in that car anymore after all this even though it was lovely when all was well, on a B-road and the burble of the induction kit.
Lightning won't strike twice... watch this space.
so I upgraded the throttle body but I have to admit I never fell very confident in that car anymore after all this even though it was lovely when all was well, on a B-road and the burble of the induction kit. Lightning won't strike twice... watch this space.
I was also worried about the reputation of the K-series, when I was looking for a Caterham. Having discussed this issue on Blatchat (Lotus 7 Owners Club Forum) and with Caterham Midlands the head gasket issue is not a problem with a properly maintained Seven. Two Years later I'm still enjoying the reliable motoring of a R300!
Also have a look at Lowflying (Owners Club Magazine) for cars for sale.
Good Luck
Insomniac
Also have a look at Lowflying (Owners Club Magazine) for cars for sale.
Good Luck
Insomniac
Insomniac said:
I was also worried about the reputation of the K-series, when I was looking for a Caterham. Having discussed this issue on Blatchat (Lotus 7 Owners Club Forum) and with Caterham Midlands the head gasket issue is not a problem with a properly maintained Seven. Two Years later I'm still enjoying the reliable motoring of a R300!
Also have a look at Lowflying (Owners Club Magazine) for cars for sale.
Good Luck
Insomniac
Also have a look at Lowflying (Owners Club Magazine) for cars for sale.
Good Luck
Insomniac
Cheers. Just went on blatchat to have a look at it. Where do you get that mag from ?
Good Topic by the way
I had a similar dilema to you almost two years ago when I was looking for a seven. I looked at all options and narrowed it down to either a 1.6vx or a 1.6 K series for the money (12k max - bear in mind 2 years ago!)
After speaking to Caterham Midlands they helped persuade me to opt for a K series. On two points really. De-Dion rear axle and Lightness.
Anyway I will keep it short. I purchased a 1.6 Roadsport (see my cars in profile) from Carterham Midlands - probably paid £500-700 too much but thought it was worth it as the car was mint and it came with 3 months warranty.
Got used to the car in the dry, and rarely drove it in the wet (wise as they can be a
handful to the inexperienced). Noticed a few things about the car. Firstly Speedo was erratic and top heater hose perished. All covered under warranty - new speedo and cable, new hose, complete coolant change - would say the extra £500 was worth it!
Since then I have done 7000 miles in it, Le Mans, Scottish Highlands and local blats. No problems untill last week. May be an oil pump, changed water pump and cambelt/tensioner first so going to cost £500!
Looking back at it I think I made the right choice but the K series is a fragile engine compared to the VX. If you want something reliable, and to be fair a novice driver would not be able to get 100% out of a live axle vx car let alone a DeDion K I would opt for a vx. You have experienced MGF problems - so had I before I got the seven....although the Caterham is better cooled you will still get problems, If you are prepared to deal eith these and have the finances say £300-£700 per year inc service then choose a K!
If there is any doubt go for the vx!
I had a similar dilema to you almost two years ago when I was looking for a seven. I looked at all options and narrowed it down to either a 1.6vx or a 1.6 K series for the money (12k max - bear in mind 2 years ago!)
After speaking to Caterham Midlands they helped persuade me to opt for a K series. On two points really. De-Dion rear axle and Lightness.
Anyway I will keep it short. I purchased a 1.6 Roadsport (see my cars in profile) from Carterham Midlands - probably paid £500-700 too much but thought it was worth it as the car was mint and it came with 3 months warranty.
Got used to the car in the dry, and rarely drove it in the wet (wise as they can be a
handful to the inexperienced). Noticed a few things about the car. Firstly Speedo was erratic and top heater hose perished. All covered under warranty - new speedo and cable, new hose, complete coolant change - would say the extra £500 was worth it!
Since then I have done 7000 miles in it, Le Mans, Scottish Highlands and local blats. No problems untill last week. May be an oil pump, changed water pump and cambelt/tensioner first so going to cost £500!
Looking back at it I think I made the right choice but the K series is a fragile engine compared to the VX. If you want something reliable, and to be fair a novice driver would not be able to get 100% out of a live axle vx car let alone a DeDion K I would opt for a vx. You have experienced MGF problems - so had I before I got the seven....although the Caterham is better cooled you will still get problems, If you are prepared to deal eith these and have the finances say £300-£700 per year inc service then choose a K!
If there is any doubt go for the vx!
Edited by v6ter on Monday 14th May 09:39
Thanks for that all of you !
I was actually re-assessing my budget and I think that if I could wait 6 months or so ,and I can since I have been waiting 10 years (since passing the driving test), I could get into the new car ownership with a Roadsport 1.6 Sigma. I even saw some very good, non sigma, £12k on this website.
I guess the next step is going to be: get to a meeting, kick a few tyres, have a chat... then spend.
I was actually re-assessing my budget and I think that if I could wait 6 months or so ,and I can since I have been waiting 10 years (since passing the driving test), I could get into the new car ownership with a Roadsport 1.6 Sigma. I even saw some very good, non sigma, £12k on this website.
I guess the next step is going to be: get to a meeting, kick a few tyres, have a chat... then spend.
v6ter said:
Good Topic by the way
I had a similar dilema to you almost two years ago when I was looking for a seven. I looked at all options and narrowed it down to either a 1.6vx or a 1.6 K series for the money (12k max - bear in mind 2 years ago!)
After speaking to Caterham Midlands they helped persuade me to opt for a K series. On two points really. De-Dion rear axle and Lightness.
I had a similar dilema to you almost two years ago when I was looking for a seven. I looked at all options and narrowed it down to either a 1.6vx or a 1.6 K series for the money (12k max - bear in mind 2 years ago!)
After speaking to Caterham Midlands they helped persuade me to opt for a K series. On two points really. De-Dion rear axle and Lightness.
You made the right choice.
Back in 2000 I built a 1.6 VX Classic.
Apart from the snorty Webers it was an uninspiring lump that chuffed along, didn't have much oomph and had a farty exhaust note.
I had previously owned a Crossflow engined Westfield, which was a much more suitable engine and has a long history of use in Caterham and Lotus Sevens.
I have driven a K Series Seven and it was a lovely motor. But if the budget doesn't stretch to a K, then I'd forget the VX 1600 and look for a 135 BHP Supersprint Crossflow.
The only thing that the VX 1600 has going for it is ease of maintenance.
Getting at the dizzy under the twin 40s on a Crossflow is a bitch of a job, but otherwise it is a fine old motor and should't be overlooked.
Cheers,
Pat
I've got an ex race vx 1.6 and it is real fun to drive. Yes it does lack top end grunt compared to my old elise and more modern caterhams but then the sensation of speed is achieved much sooner.
I just completed an airfield day and with the combination of low grunt, hard tyres and a live axle I spent most of the time steering on the throttle. I'm not going to rubbish the more powerful cars with sticky tyres and trick difs but for lower purchase price I don't regret it.
I just completed an airfield day and with the combination of low grunt, hard tyres and a live axle I spent most of the time steering on the throttle. I'm not going to rubbish the more powerful cars with sticky tyres and trick difs but for lower purchase price I don't regret it.
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