How does a Caterham Superlight compare with R400 & JPE ?
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm tempted to spoil myself by buying another Caterham. The best that I've had a go in are an original Superlight and a Cosworth Turbo engined car - both of which were different beasts altogether, and fantastic for different reasons. The superlight was felt "pure", the Cosworth was just silly and great with it.
Now, I'm tempted to go for an R400 (either a K-series version, or save some more and go Duratec).
A left wall option is to go for a JPE version (e.g. the one for sale in the classifieds). Main usage will be road driving with some high speed continental usage and the odd track day.
I'm interested in your opinions (all count) about the choice of R400 (K-series and Duratec) v JPE. Which would you go for and why ?
Cheers,
Mark
I'm tempted to spoil myself by buying another Caterham. The best that I've had a go in are an original Superlight and a Cosworth Turbo engined car - both of which were different beasts altogether, and fantastic for different reasons. The superlight was felt "pure", the Cosworth was just silly and great with it.
Now, I'm tempted to go for an R400 (either a K-series version, or save some more and go Duratec).
A left wall option is to go for a JPE version (e.g. the one for sale in the classifieds). Main usage will be road driving with some high speed continental usage and the odd track day.
I'm interested in your opinions (all count) about the choice of R400 (K-series and Duratec) v JPE. Which would you go for and why ?
Cheers,
Mark
For mainly road with a little track I'd go for the SL. The more power you have on the road the more frustrating it can be given you'll spend all day queuing behind cars to overtake with very short (but very quick blats) inbetween until you come across another queue of cars. The lower powered cars just suit roads better. Also, other than the medium to big circuits, they have plenty of power to be fun. There is a trap that a lot of people fall into that they must have the faster Caterfield out there which works to a degree but eventually starts becoming detrimental as your average track speed will increase way beyond the average of everything else on the circuit (talent allowing) and you start playing the queue and overtake frustration game again rather than enjoying the good bits inbetween. Sure if the tracks were empty or populated by similarly powerful cars that would be no problem, but tracks like roads, are not.
IMO for the majority of circumstances an SL will be plenty quick enough. It has all the right bits on it to make it fun pretty much everywhere and I only find them a bit lacking in power at places like Oulton Park and bigger where the chassis is so capable you feel it should have a more power to be a bit more of a challenge.
IMO for the majority of circumstances an SL will be plenty quick enough. It has all the right bits on it to make it fun pretty much everywhere and I only find them a bit lacking in power at places like Oulton Park and bigger where the chassis is so capable you feel it should have a more power to be a bit more of a challenge.
I have a K series R300 engined car. I use it mainly on the track, and find the power fine. I only wish for more power on circuits like Oulton. So I tend to do the twisty ones more. The JPE in the classifieds, is a fantastic car, having tried to keep up with it at one circuit we were both at 
The only word of caution, is be mindful of the noise limits at circuits, my car has a 7" race silencer and I struggle at Goodwood and Bedford and probably Donnington. A JPE is very loud, but the noise is so addictive.
If I was getting a new car, I would go for a R400, either a K or Duratec.
The only word of caution, is be mindful of the noise limits at circuits, my car has a 7" race silencer and I struggle at Goodwood and Bedford and probably Donnington. A JPE is very loud, but the noise is so addictive.
If I was getting a new car, I would go for a R400, either a K or Duratec.
Good as the JPE was, and as much as people tell you they can be made to handle well, why bother when the lighter engined cars handle much better with much less effort? Unless you buy one to "collect".
Duratech's a torquier unit so you can be lazier. Also easier to extract more power later if need be. But should a 7's engine promote laziness? And I'm not sure about having the exhaust exit on my side.
Kind of agree with the comments on the SL above. But the extra poke can come in handy on the road an particularly on tracks with longer straights.
Would definitely not suggest an R500 for road use. Bit too "in your face", higher maintenance than the others and not sure its characteristics are well suited for a predominantly road based car.
Tidy SLR would make a nice buy I reckon, or a properly spec'd R400.
Duratech's a torquier unit so you can be lazier. Also easier to extract more power later if need be. But should a 7's engine promote laziness? And I'm not sure about having the exhaust exit on my side.
Kind of agree with the comments on the SL above. But the extra poke can come in handy on the road an particularly on tracks with longer straights.
Would definitely not suggest an R500 for road use. Bit too "in your face", higher maintenance than the others and not sure its characteristics are well suited for a predominantly road based car.
Tidy SLR would make a nice buy I reckon, or a properly spec'd R400.
Thanks for sparing time to reply and fuelling my dilemna !
My experience of the Superlight stacks up with what you suggest and many of the press reports - amongst the best and most fun Sevens.
When I had a go in the Cosworth turbo engined car, I found the performance to be accessible and so fast; requiring practically zero effort to reach amazing speeds and overtakes were but a thought away. I was very surprised at how good the throttle response was on this car. It also felt immensly stable (which also means less agile). In contrast the Superlight was sweeter around corners (the Cosworth needed more effort and it's response was not so immediate yet it was way better than any tin-top I have driven); I found myself caressing the Superlight around corners whereas the Cosworth worked better by throwing it around.
I guess that what I really want is a car that changes character depending on my mood !
More realistically, I suspect that I am after a car that has a wide spread of torque (for when I want to be lazy), combined with an explosive power delivery when "on cam" (when I am out for a blast).
I have ruled out the 2.3 Duratec, even though it sounds appealing on paper; reasons for not choosing a 2.3 Duratec: 1. I suspect that if developed to give an "on cam feel" that it will have too much power, and 2. being realistic, my budget cannot stetch that far.
Casbar, I do like your comment about choosing circuits that suit the car. Interesting way of looking at it - I'm most interested in twisty circuits such as Cadwell Park - I suspect an ideal stomping ground for a Superlight.
Juansolo (pardon me, I think you have such a wicked name), I kind of agree with you about suitability of the Superlight on the road; I recognize that I get a little frustrated by drivers who travel everywhere at 47mph (motorways, A-roads and 30 limits and even in 20 mph limits). I sometimes think to myself why do I bother overtaking them as no sooner have I overtaken then I get consumed by another bugger sticking to the magical 47 mph. Perhaps 47 mph is only applicable to the Midlands - I certainly don't experience this problem when I go for a drive to Wales, Scotland or some other parts of England.
Apologies for the long post; it is important for me to aim for the right product, and it helps me gather my thoughts when I put "pen to paper".
P.S. I've always been led to believe that an R500 is a highly strung and awesome machine most suited to maniacs (or should that be drivers that are much more talented than I?). I've spoken to 2 or 3 Lotus 7 club members that reckoned that an R500 is over the top for the road, more so than a JPE. But then again, I suspect that driver skill, the roads involved, the driver's mood and the prevailing conditions (weather and traffic) have a bigger impact on the correct choice of vehicle.
All said, I am talking (or more correctly typing) myself around to the need to get my bum in a 7 soon. And based on the helpful comments from you all ( and thanks to each and everyone of you who have posted ) I will keep an eye out for an R400 / SLR; although if the right Superlight / R500 turns up I could be tempted.
I am now looking forward to the day when I can join you in having fun in a 7.
Bye for now,
Mark
My experience of the Superlight stacks up with what you suggest and many of the press reports - amongst the best and most fun Sevens.
When I had a go in the Cosworth turbo engined car, I found the performance to be accessible and so fast; requiring practically zero effort to reach amazing speeds and overtakes were but a thought away. I was very surprised at how good the throttle response was on this car. It also felt immensly stable (which also means less agile). In contrast the Superlight was sweeter around corners (the Cosworth needed more effort and it's response was not so immediate yet it was way better than any tin-top I have driven); I found myself caressing the Superlight around corners whereas the Cosworth worked better by throwing it around.
I guess that what I really want is a car that changes character depending on my mood !
More realistically, I suspect that I am after a car that has a wide spread of torque (for when I want to be lazy), combined with an explosive power delivery when "on cam" (when I am out for a blast).
I have ruled out the 2.3 Duratec, even though it sounds appealing on paper; reasons for not choosing a 2.3 Duratec: 1. I suspect that if developed to give an "on cam feel" that it will have too much power, and 2. being realistic, my budget cannot stetch that far.
Casbar, I do like your comment about choosing circuits that suit the car. Interesting way of looking at it - I'm most interested in twisty circuits such as Cadwell Park - I suspect an ideal stomping ground for a Superlight.
Juansolo (pardon me, I think you have such a wicked name), I kind of agree with you about suitability of the Superlight on the road; I recognize that I get a little frustrated by drivers who travel everywhere at 47mph (motorways, A-roads and 30 limits and even in 20 mph limits). I sometimes think to myself why do I bother overtaking them as no sooner have I overtaken then I get consumed by another bugger sticking to the magical 47 mph. Perhaps 47 mph is only applicable to the Midlands - I certainly don't experience this problem when I go for a drive to Wales, Scotland or some other parts of England.
Apologies for the long post; it is important for me to aim for the right product, and it helps me gather my thoughts when I put "pen to paper".
P.S. I've always been led to believe that an R500 is a highly strung and awesome machine most suited to maniacs (or should that be drivers that are much more talented than I?). I've spoken to 2 or 3 Lotus 7 club members that reckoned that an R500 is over the top for the road, more so than a JPE. But then again, I suspect that driver skill, the roads involved, the driver's mood and the prevailing conditions (weather and traffic) have a bigger impact on the correct choice of vehicle.
All said, I am talking (or more correctly typing) myself around to the need to get my bum in a 7 soon. And based on the helpful comments from you all ( and thanks to each and everyone of you who have posted ) I will keep an eye out for an R400 / SLR; although if the right Superlight / R500 turns up I could be tempted.
I am now looking forward to the day when I can join you in having fun in a 7.
Bye for now,
Mark
marksimon said:
I guess that what I really want is a car that changes character depending on my mood !
Which is exactly what I have now... I had a Cosworth powered Westfield in the past that I pretty much converted into a track only car as it was too fast and unpleasant as a road car. It was torquey and a blast to drive but required a lot of commitment and had to be brutalised around a circuit. A very fast car. However I sold up last year as it was very high maintenance and I simply didn't have the time to look after it and couldn't be bothered with all the hassle that comes with a highly strung pure track car. So what I do now is hire a Superlight for most track days as they are one of the sweetest things you can drive around a twisty circuit. I have also bought myself another Westfield with a 2.0 Zetec in it which is kindof a halfy-half track/road car. Powerful enough, decent torque, reliable, semi-comfortable (I fit in a wide bodied Westy perfectly, a regular Caterham is snug and a SV is mahooosive). Great fun on the road with plenty of power to zip past everything but not so much it's frustrating. Should be good on bigger circuits also where the SL lacks the legs, though I haven't tried this yet. It may seem an odd way to do it, but it works for me.
Edited by juansolo on Thursday 10th May 08:32
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