Older Caterhams and the engines in them......
Discussion
Guys - Have been thinking about buying an older type of caterham (ie v late 80's, early 90's) and this has got me thinking about weights of various cars and specifically weights of engines against the performance they offer.
Am I right in thinking these thoughts I've written below? For some reason I've come to accept what I've written below is correct. I want people to tell me whether I'm right/wrong/insane/factually incorrect etc, etc.
X Flow engines are v heavy and need a fair amount of constant tinkering/fettling to keep in best of health but reward with crackling exhaust on the over-run and generally a very characterful engine to live with - very old technology, oily, maximum output of about 135-140bhp on webbers.
VX Engines are slightly lighter than Cross flows and give excellent performance for very little tinkering with some very competitive outputs (when compared to a K series) at the expense of some weight in the nose. A tall engine if I'm right. 200bhp plus is easily achieved but a fairly unstressed engine will deliver 150-175bhp all day long.
Zetecs - for some reason they seem to suffer a bad reputation. Modern engine but maybe not seen as Caterham blessed and therefore residuals suffer. a tall engine (is this right) they offer hefty power but the car itself suffers a 'non-caterham' engine affliction. 185bhp is easily achieved apparently.
K Series - very light, need little tinkering as long as you make sure the cooling side of things is in tip top shape. To get the best out it you ideally need the 6 speed (thus expensive) gearbox. 1.4's offer 125bhp (if you get the right ecu - supersport). rev to hell and back, and sound quite characterful. If you get some ofthe more stressed (ie 190bhp and above) they tend to go bang if you thrash the crap out of it repeatedly or don't look after them. seen as a fragile engine.
Bike engines; no torque but revving to 10,000+ revs is extremely addictive plus the bang, bang, bang gearbox has appeal. clutches last about 2 and half minutes. tend to be all or nothing engines. Living with them is frenetic as to drive quickly you've gott to rev the bejesus out of them. don't get caught in the wrong gear or way down the rev range if you want to overtake. residuals suffer. mightbe better to just go ahead and buy a Westfield instead with a bike engine and thus not suffer a residual issue.
Are any of my opinions/accepted thoughts correct? Help!
Any thoughts gratefully received!
Am I right in thinking these thoughts I've written below? For some reason I've come to accept what I've written below is correct. I want people to tell me whether I'm right/wrong/insane/factually incorrect etc, etc.
X Flow engines are v heavy and need a fair amount of constant tinkering/fettling to keep in best of health but reward with crackling exhaust on the over-run and generally a very characterful engine to live with - very old technology, oily, maximum output of about 135-140bhp on webbers.
VX Engines are slightly lighter than Cross flows and give excellent performance for very little tinkering with some very competitive outputs (when compared to a K series) at the expense of some weight in the nose. A tall engine if I'm right. 200bhp plus is easily achieved but a fairly unstressed engine will deliver 150-175bhp all day long.
Zetecs - for some reason they seem to suffer a bad reputation. Modern engine but maybe not seen as Caterham blessed and therefore residuals suffer. a tall engine (is this right) they offer hefty power but the car itself suffers a 'non-caterham' engine affliction. 185bhp is easily achieved apparently.
K Series - very light, need little tinkering as long as you make sure the cooling side of things is in tip top shape. To get the best out it you ideally need the 6 speed (thus expensive) gearbox. 1.4's offer 125bhp (if you get the right ecu - supersport). rev to hell and back, and sound quite characterful. If you get some ofthe more stressed (ie 190bhp and above) they tend to go bang if you thrash the crap out of it repeatedly or don't look after them. seen as a fragile engine.
Bike engines; no torque but revving to 10,000+ revs is extremely addictive plus the bang, bang, bang gearbox has appeal. clutches last about 2 and half minutes. tend to be all or nothing engines. Living with them is frenetic as to drive quickly you've gott to rev the bejesus out of them. don't get caught in the wrong gear or way down the rev range if you want to overtake. residuals suffer. mightbe better to just go ahead and buy a Westfield instead with a bike engine and thus not suffer a residual issue.
Are any of my opinions/accepted thoughts correct? Help!
Any thoughts gratefully received!
short reply to a long question, as I can only comment on a couple of things. First a question back - what do you want to use the car for, as that may change what you go for. second a note on the Kseries, I'm not sure a 6spd is a prerequisit for a 1.6 at least, it may help a lot on the road, but not sure you would need it for track. Second, whilst my 1.6k dedion car is great on a track compared to the 1700supersprint, live axle crossflow I had. The crossflow was so much more of an event on the road.
Had a xflow first, great engine, not as heavy as a VX. Also having a live axle saves a lot of weight in the whole package. Xflows can be made very reliable for quite cheap money, if you can spanner it yourself. I had 3D mapped ignition on mine, and it drove like a modern engine.
Now have a R300 K series, bought it for the track. I rev the nuts off it all day on the track and upto now its been rock solid. Mine is dry sumped though. Its done 25k now. IMHO 6 speed box is ideal for the track, not so good for touring.
Whichever you go for, you need to look after the engine to some extent, any engine will have its own characteristics and be great. Never heard a bad word about Zetec's although they are heavier than the xflow, it replaces the xflow well in the live axle cars.
The only down side of the Zetec, is Caterham never sold this engine as standard, so the purists won't like it.
Now have a R300 K series, bought it for the track. I rev the nuts off it all day on the track and upto now its been rock solid. Mine is dry sumped though. Its done 25k now. IMHO 6 speed box is ideal for the track, not so good for touring.
Whichever you go for, you need to look after the engine to some extent, any engine will have its own characteristics and be great. Never heard a bad word about Zetec's although they are heavier than the xflow, it replaces the xflow well in the live axle cars.
The only down side of the Zetec, is Caterham never sold this engine as standard, so the purists won't like it.
I run a 1600 cc Crossflow in mine. It only delivers 100 bhp which may not be powerful enough for a lot of people but the aural aspect of using one of these older engines cannot really be matched.
The 135 bhp 1700 cc Crossflow was a popular in the mid 80s to early 90s but they tend to be a bit more troublesome than the basic 1600cc.
One thing to watch out for if buying a Crossflow powered car is whether the cylinder head has been modified to run on unleaded petrol.
The 135 bhp 1700 cc Crossflow was a popular in the mid 80s to early 90s but they tend to be a bit more troublesome than the basic 1600cc.
One thing to watch out for if buying a Crossflow powered car is whether the cylinder head has been modified to run on unleaded petrol.
oi_oi_savaloy said:
X Flow engines are v heavy and need a fair amount of constant tinkering/fettling to keep in best of health but reward with crackling exhaust on the over-run and generally a very characterful engine to live with - very old technology, oily, maximum output of about 135-140bhp on webbers.
They really aren't that heavy. I had to lift my engine of a bench onto the floor of my workshop by myself and didn't struggle too much (though it didn't have a flywheel fitted). They are probably lighter than a Zetec or 20XE to be honest.
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