new R400? shall i wait
Discussion
considering a R500, as posted, but also considering waiting for the new R400. Caterham say april delivery therefore ready for the summer.
does anyone have any more news on this, would probably be more reliable than a R500 too clearly.
looks like 30k all up with a few tasty bits, carbon, stack etc etc
any insight v welcome
does anyone have any more news on this, would probably be more reliable than a R500 too clearly.
looks like 30k all up with a few tasty bits, carbon, stack etc etc
any insight v welcome
Don't know if you after a specific factory built car, but if your going to spanner it yourself, I would buy a starter kit from CC and then get the engine and gearbox from one of the well known Duratec builders/installers. Reason for my comments, are, the CC fit of the Duratec and mating to the six speed box, is done to a budget, so for instance the ratios in the box could be a bit better, as the box was for the K series.
The C400 is a little delayed but I am pretty sure they are sat on quite a few orders so you may want to confirm a delivery for order placed now.
The car itself is a stonker, on mine I had heater, big master cylinder, areoscreen, 1/2 doors, carbon wings ad cone, silicone hoses and trackday bar. I then had Freestyle adjustable shocks on allround which was a real bonus for road use. (Mine was a Kseries R400 by the way)
That sort of spec and paint it in a shockingly bright colour and you will have tons of fun and be able to sell it quickly for a good price.
I lways thought the SLR cage looked awesome on roadcars but does put some people off.
PS, Dont know where you are located but Caterham Midlands are far better on this car than the factory IMHO.
The car itself is a stonker, on mine I had heater, big master cylinder, areoscreen, 1/2 doors, carbon wings ad cone, silicone hoses and trackday bar. I then had Freestyle adjustable shocks on allround which was a real bonus for road use. (Mine was a Kseries R400 by the way)
That sort of spec and paint it in a shockingly bright colour and you will have tons of fun and be able to sell it quickly for a good price.
I lways thought the SLR cage looked awesome on roadcars but does put some people off.
PS, Dont know where you are located but Caterham Midlands are far better on this car than the factory IMHO.
Edited by James.S on Monday 18th December 10:08
Edited by James.S on Monday 18th December 14:14
Not going to get into the 6 speed box ratios too deeply, it does work ok in the CC fit, but if you speak to the guys that do the aftermarket fits, of the Duratec, they pretty much all tell you to sell on the CC 6 speed and get something like a BGH 5 speed which has slightly better ratios to suit the more torque engine.
But everyone who has a CSR with the 6 speed I'm sure are very happy and will probably be very pleased with the gearbox etc. Having researched either swapping my K for a Duratec or going for a CC version, then I have decided to go for the best possible solution of either swapping out the K or buying a starter kit and fitting an aftermarket Duratec.
Also, having had a few Caterhams, customers do tend to go through the guinea pig phase before everything gets sorted, so if I was buying the C400, I think I would wait to let others iron out the glitches first. Whearas the aftermarket engine fits, seem to be pretty much tied down now.
But if you ever wanted to trade back to Caterham, then there is only the one option
But everyone who has a CSR with the 6 speed I'm sure are very happy and will probably be very pleased with the gearbox etc. Having researched either swapping my K for a Duratec or going for a CC version, then I have decided to go for the best possible solution of either swapping out the K or buying a starter kit and fitting an aftermarket Duratec.
Also, having had a few Caterhams, customers do tend to go through the guinea pig phase before everything gets sorted, so if I was buying the C400, I think I would wait to let others iron out the glitches first. Whearas the aftermarket engine fits, seem to be pretty much tied down now.
But if you ever wanted to trade back to Caterham, then there is only the one option
Casbar, you seem to me assuming there is only one spec of duratec available and it's a low-revving truck engine with a torque curve you could play snooker on. While you'd do well to convince one to produce less torque than a similar specced K, I feel it's a bit blinkered to automatically rule out the 6 speed box without any knowledge of the engine spec it's been mated to.
The C400 (which is a race only car) revs to 8,200 rpm, and I can't think of *any* advantage to using a 5 speed with one. As far as I'm aware the spec of the R400 engine isn't public knowledge yet, so I think it's a bit early to be assuming it would benefit from less gears.
And FWIW, I can't beleive anyone who's ever bought Titan parts thinks the Caterham Duratec installation is done to a 'budget' - the dry sump system is quite a piece of work, and is considerably easier to install than any of the aftermarket ones I've done.
The C400 (which is a race only car) revs to 8,200 rpm, and I can't think of *any* advantage to using a 5 speed with one. As far as I'm aware the spec of the R400 engine isn't public knowledge yet, so I think it's a bit early to be assuming it would benefit from less gears.
And FWIW, I can't beleive anyone who's ever bought Titan parts thinks the Caterham Duratec installation is done to a 'budget' - the dry sump system is quite a piece of work, and is considerably easier to install than any of the aftermarket ones I've done.
See, I knew after I'd posted my first comment that a die in the mud Caterham fan would get upset. I apologise, S if I upset you.
Just to put the record straight a little, I think the Duratec engine is superb, and I am considering swapping my K out for one, or doing a new build from a starter kit and fitting an aftermarket engine.
Just to add, if the Duratec had less torque than a K, then the 6 speed box would be ok, but as the Duratec has great torque, then surely that proves my point, that you need a box that doesn't have such close ratios
Or you will be forever needing to change gears.
I can only pass on what "other" engine builders and gearbox specialists have told me about the different engine specs and best gearbox choices are for the car. After all how else does one make an informed decision, or does one just hand over a large wodge of cash to CC and assume that everything is great! Every car CC produced has had some issues, which eventually get sorted. That is what you buy into, when buying from a specialist manufacturer.
I know you read Blatchat and browse Tech Talk, so you know every new model has niggles, of course the car is built to a budget, just look at the R300 engine, CC didn't fit verniers so the timing wasn't as good as it should have been. The same engine had verniers fitted in the Elise, why didn't Caterham bother, it was purley down to cost. But if you had built the engine yourself, the cams would sure as hell have been timed correctly and the engine would have been mapped for optimum fueling etc.
Anyway, everything Caterham builds is great, all the engines are fantastic, hope you enjoy spending all your money, god help anyone who dares to make a comment that doesn't follow the party line
Just to put the record straight a little, I think the Duratec engine is superb, and I am considering swapping my K out for one, or doing a new build from a starter kit and fitting an aftermarket engine.
Just to add, if the Duratec had less torque than a K, then the 6 speed box would be ok, but as the Duratec has great torque, then surely that proves my point, that you need a box that doesn't have such close ratios
Or you will be forever needing to change gears. I can only pass on what "other" engine builders and gearbox specialists have told me about the different engine specs and best gearbox choices are for the car. After all how else does one make an informed decision, or does one just hand over a large wodge of cash to CC and assume that everything is great! Every car CC produced has had some issues, which eventually get sorted. That is what you buy into, when buying from a specialist manufacturer.
I know you read Blatchat and browse Tech Talk, so you know every new model has niggles, of course the car is built to a budget, just look at the R300 engine, CC didn't fit verniers so the timing wasn't as good as it should have been. The same engine had verniers fitted in the Elise, why didn't Caterham bother, it was purley down to cost. But if you had built the engine yourself, the cams would sure as hell have been timed correctly and the engine would have been mapped for optimum fueling etc.
Anyway, everything Caterham builds is great, all the engines are fantastic, hope you enjoy spending all your money, god help anyone who dares to make a comment that doesn't follow the party line
Edited by casbar on Monday 18th December 12:00
Edited by casbar on Monday 18th December 12:01
Edited by casbar on Monday 18th December 12:10
What the hell was that all about? Party line? All my money (
)? R300 verniers? I'm stunned by that response!The verniers thing confused me, mainly because I wasn't aware that either of the R300 engines had ever been fitted to an Elise (the EU2 version having Caterham roller barrels, and the EU3 being the VVC unit). If you meant the Sport 160 engine, then it's a very different beast from either of the R300 units.
You seem to have mistaken me for some kind of pro-caterham zealot, where all I was trying to do was suggest that people should perhaps give a new car a chance to at least be launched before decrying it as a cobbled-together failure. I can assure you that making a living from working on Caterham's leaves my eyes wide open to all their flaws (as well as their delights).
As for thinking I believe everything that comes from Dartford is sacred, as well as a C400, K R400 and several more basic K models in the workshop, I currently have Danny LT's 300+bhp duratec car in and am in the middle of installing a Honda K20a into another S3 chassis - neither of which could be described as factory standard
To try and get this thread back on topic, I'd suggest the original poster waits until the R400 is available to drive before making a descision - but either way I think he'll end up with a fantastic car
You seem to have mistaken me for some kind of pro-caterham zealot, where all I was trying to do was suggest that people should perhaps give a new car a chance to at least be launched before decrying it as a cobbled-together failure. I can assure you that making a living from working on Caterham's leaves my eyes wide open to all their flaws (as well as their delights).
As for thinking I believe everything that comes from Dartford is sacred, as well as a C400, K R400 and several more basic K models in the workshop, I currently have Danny LT's 300+bhp duratec car in and am in the middle of installing a Honda K20a into another S3 chassis - neither of which could be described as factory standard
To try and get this thread back on topic, I'd suggest the original poster waits until the R400 is available to drive before making a descision - but either way I think he'll end up with a fantastic car
Stu, if you know the Duratec so well, then you must agree that the six speed box can be improved on, as the box was built for the 1400K.
I didn't mean to suggest that the specific R300 engine had ever been fitted to the Elise, but trying to make the point that the engine fitted to the Caterham, didn't have verniners and had a one size fits all map, yet the engine fitted to the Elise from Minister, did have verniers and was timed better. On speaking to Minister when I had issues with the mapping of my R300, I asked why the engine didn't have verniers fitted and they said it was a cost issue.
I've had a look through my previous posts and I didn't actually say that the new C400 was cobbled together, just that a 3rd party built engine (such as Danny's) would be a great solution, rather than a factory one size fits all build. But if someone wants a car that they can trade back to Caterham then I'm sure the C400 would be a good choice. Each to their own I suppose
I didn't want to get into who knows the most about Caterhams,
I didn't mean to suggest that the specific R300 engine had ever been fitted to the Elise, but trying to make the point that the engine fitted to the Caterham, didn't have verniners and had a one size fits all map, yet the engine fitted to the Elise from Minister, did have verniers and was timed better. On speaking to Minister when I had issues with the mapping of my R300, I asked why the engine didn't have verniers fitted and they said it was a cost issue.
I've had a look through my previous posts and I didn't actually say that the new C400 was cobbled together, just that a 3rd party built engine (such as Danny's) would be a great solution, rather than a factory one size fits all build. But if someone wants a car that they can trade back to Caterham then I'm sure the C400 would be a good choice. Each to their own I suppose
I didn't want to get into who knows the most about Caterhams,
Can anyone confirm the spec of the C400 engine ?.
I understand its 220 bhp ?
is it using uprated pistons and rods ?.
FWIW I'm building a 230 bhp 2L Duratec at the moment and mating this up to a 6 speed box with a 3.62 diff.
I think the biggest issue with the 6 speeder is its limit of torque it can handle reliably, many of the 2.3 L cars stress the box (?).
Whats wrong with 6 speeds - it means you have the correct gear for every situation , the ratios in the BGH are still a comprimise, and many of the 5 speed runners are only road cars .
I understand its 220 bhp ?
is it using uprated pistons and rods ?.
FWIW I'm building a 230 bhp 2L Duratec at the moment and mating this up to a 6 speed box with a 3.62 diff.
I think the biggest issue with the 6 speeder is its limit of torque it can handle reliably, many of the 2.3 L cars stress the box (?).
Whats wrong with 6 speeds - it means you have the correct gear for every situation , the ratios in the BGH are still a comprimise, and many of the 5 speed runners are only road cars .
There's nothing wrong with the 6-speeder - so what if it was designed for a 1400K? For a 200+bhp K series it's fantastic, and for the narrower torque band cars probably essential. And it still has the best shift feel of any gearbox I've tried - makes the car so much fun to drive.
The main reason (apart from strength) a 5 speed box makes sense on the high powered 2.3 duratecs is that a sixth ratio would be wasted - you already change gears very quickly while accelerating and the power band is much wider at 4000 to 7800. The is presuming you have a high first and decent ratios.
The main reason (apart from strength) a 5 speed box makes sense on the high powered 2.3 duratecs is that a sixth ratio would be wasted - you already change gears very quickly while accelerating and the power band is much wider at 4000 to 7800. The is presuming you have a high first and decent ratios.
Rathur,
If i was you, i'd buy a very good example R500 in the new year. I hear there is a Black one available in v good condition with a refreshed engine and clutch. It has all the usual R500 spec, Stack, Carbon etc etc.
I think its going to be in the region of £22,000.
Thats what i would do....
J
If i was you, i'd buy a very good example R500 in the new year. I hear there is a Black one available in v good condition with a refreshed engine and clutch. It has all the usual R500 spec, Stack, Carbon etc etc.
I think its going to be in the region of £22,000.
Thats what i would do....
J
JR500 said:
Rathur,
If i was you, i'd buy a very good example R500 in the new year. I hear there is a Black one available in v good condition with a refreshed engine and clutch. It has all the usual R500 spec, Stack, Carbon etc etc.
I think its going to be in the region of £22,000.
Thats what i would do....
J
If i was you, i'd buy a very good example R500 in the new year. I hear there is a Black one available in v good condition with a refreshed engine and clutch. It has all the usual R500 spec, Stack, Carbon etc etc.
I think its going to be in the region of £22,000.
Thats what i would do....
J
I've heard about that car too - bloke also has a rather natty mobile 'phone that he's trying to shift
...I've also mailed you Rathur about that car too offline - complete with the vendor's email address 
Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff