is this a stupid purchase??? help
Discussion
I believe this is a well know car, ex-Fatcat? It has seen some action but plenty of TLC also I believe. Is it not one of a kind as an Evo SV?
Suffice to say it's over 230hp from 1.9l (is that right for an evo rather than 1.8 standard?) so is hard worked and needs the maintenance that goes with this. It will be balistically quick and will knock your GT3 into the weeds. I speak as a Caterham and RS owner.
Maintenance costs will be not insubstantial. It's not the brakes and tyres, but perhaps a refresh of the engine now and then. If you run your Porsche and have it looked at a couple of times a year given you track it, then the costs will not be out of that ball park.
Suffice to say it's over 230hp from 1.9l (is that right for an evo rather than 1.8 standard?) so is hard worked and needs the maintenance that goes with this. It will be balistically quick and will knock your GT3 into the weeds. I speak as a Caterham and RS owner.
Maintenance costs will be not insubstantial. It's not the brakes and tyres, but perhaps a refresh of the engine now and then. If you run your Porsche and have it looked at a couple of times a year given you track it, then the costs will not be out of that ball park.
jimmyslr said:
I believe this is a well know car, ex-Fatcat? It has seen some action but plenty of TLC also I believe. Is it not one of a kind as an Evo SV?
Suffice to say it's over 230hp from 1.9l (is that right for an evo rather than 1.8 standard?) so is hard worked and needs the maintenance that goes with this. It will be balistically quick and will knock your GT3 into the weeds. I speak as a Caterham and RS owner.
Maintenance costs will be not insubstantial. It's not the brakes and tyres, but perhaps a refresh of the engine now and then. If you run your Porsche and have it looked at a couple of times a year given you track it, then the costs will not be out of that ball park.
Suffice to say it's over 230hp from 1.9l (is that right for an evo rather than 1.8 standard?) so is hard worked and needs the maintenance that goes with this. It will be balistically quick and will knock your GT3 into the weeds. I speak as a Caterham and RS owner.
Maintenance costs will be not insubstantial. It's not the brakes and tyres, but perhaps a refresh of the engine now and then. If you run your Porsche and have it looked at a couple of times a year given you track it, then the costs will not be out of that ball park.
It's Nigel Bent's old car - it has had some damage in the course of its career, but hasn't had as many corners as his current car
Whilst Nigel used it virtually exclusively as a race car - he did the JCC and SEMSEC races mostly at Lydden IIRC, it was created from a road car - he specified it to R500 level as an SV chassis and then later had the engine upgraded to Evo spec (250bhp) by Minister. So I'd not put it in the category that the R500 Evo is in - i.e. it isn't a "factory" R500 Evo SV....they didn't ever make those.
So don't buy it as an investment is my advice, but buy it if you're a little "tubby" and want a very quick trackday car - it isn't quite as quick as Nigel's current steed, by all accounts, but that's subjective!!!!
R500 engine is very solid as long as it is looked after with very regular oil changes, it is a race motor and must be treated like that with refreshes as part of the running cost.
The comment about it not being a factory built car is a little bogus, I understand it was with the evo modificaion to the engine comming later. If you say thats not a factory car then neither are the R500 with the 101 conversion, basically it isnt a negative.
I wouldnt bother that its an ex race car either. The prime concern is the price, it is way too expensive, along with the majority of R500's which come up for sale periodically all for too much. If it is going on the track buy an ex race R400 which will be as quick round a circuit and save yourself £10k
If you want to spend that sort of money look at buying an 400 or 500 SV chassis form Caterham and put in a Racetech duratech. Yours for not a lot more, cheaper to run and none of the history
my2p
James
PS, larger frames can fit in a std body car aswell. You may need a "poured foam" seat. Miles better than tillets and better fit. I am 5.11 and 17 stone and race a standard chassis.
James.S said:
R500 engine is very solid as long as it is looked after with very regular oil changes, it is a race motor and must be treated like that with refreshes as part of the running cost.
The comment about it not being a factory built car is a little bogus, I understand it was with the evo modificaion to the engine comming later. If you say thats not a factory car then neither are the R500 with the 101 conversion, basically it isnt a negative.
I wouldnt bother that its an ex race car either. The prime concern is the price, it is way too expensive, along with the majority of R500's which come up for sale periodically all for too much. If it is going on the track buy an ex race R400 which will be as quick round a circuit and save yourself £10k
If you want to spend that sort of money look at buying an 400 or 500 SV chassis form Caterham and put in a Racetech duratech. Yours for not a lot more, cheaper to run and none of the history
my2p
James
PS, larger frames can fit in a std body car aswell. You may need a "poured foam" seat. Miles better than tillets and better fit. I am 5.11 and 17 stone and race a standard chassis.
My point was that this car is not a factory recognised model...there is no such Caterham model as an R500 SV. Sure, any R500 with the 101 mod (I elected not to have this done to mine when Minister rebuilt the engine in March this year) is not a factory Evo - point taken....but an R500 with 101 is still an R500 - Fact!....
I don't think Caterham produced many Evos as it happens - far too pricey for what you got.
I'd contend too that not all R500s are expensive - mine wasn't, but then I did buy it for under £10,000, needing an engine rebuild. But even at the true retail price of £20k, an R500 looks good value for rarity and cachet value alone.
I'd agree that if you want a pure track car, an ex race R400 is a good route, but don't think you can SVA one of these with ease - so dfon't buy a race car thiking that it's a cheap way to get a powerful road car - it isn't.
James.S said:
R500 engine is very solid as long as it is looked after with very regular oil changes, it is a race motor and must be treated like that with refreshes as part of the running cost.
The comment about it not being a factory built car is a little bogus, I understand it was with the evo modificaion to the engine comming later. If you say thats not a factory car then neither are the R500 with the 101 conversion, basically it isnt a negative.
I wouldnt bother that its an ex race car either. The prime concern is the price, it is way too expensive, along with the majority of R500's which come up for sale periodically all for too much. If it is going on the track buy an ex race R400 which will be as quick round a circuit and save yourself £10k
If you want to spend that sort of money look at buying an 400 or 500 SV chassis form Caterham and put in a Racetech duratech. Yours for not a lot more, cheaper to run and none of the history
my2p
James
PS, larger frames can fit in a std body car aswell. You may need a "poured foam" seat. Miles better than tillets and better fit. I am 5.11 and 17 stone and race a standard chassis.
R500 overpriced??? 85 built, virtually the fastest car ever built for the road, for around £25K.......massively underpriced in my book.
Matt - we're both Ferrari and Porsche fans right? I had a conversation with a mate recently on the lines of..."to get the ultimate Porsche I've got to spend £315,000. The ultimate Ferrari costs £600,000 plus (assuming you can still get an Enzo)...but the ultimate Caterham - yours for £25k max....and it's every bit as quick as those other cars...up to 100 mph at least!!!!!"
'nuff said?
And no, I don't believe the CSR is the ultimate Caterham - but am willnig to accept that the JPE runs it close...
'nuff said?
And no, I don't believe the CSR is the ultimate Caterham - but am willnig to accept that the JPE runs it close...
Oh dear.
The R500SV is a recognised model, ring them. The evo is a recognised upgrade from the official engine builder. Stop talking crap.
If you have the itch scratch it, just be careful. The r500 is not particularly nice on the road, the r300 is much better balanced and certainly as quick on the road.
Round a track the R400 is quicker than the R500, although the Evo may be. The engine will go off every 800 track miles, it will require very frequebt oil changes, it will eat tyres and constanly throw up little niggles. Remember it is virtually a race car that has been SVA'd.
What you cant overlook is that R5's are overpriced, thats why that car has been for sale for over a year.
James.S said:
Oh dear.
The R500SV is a recognised model, ring them. The evo is a recognised upgrade from the official engine builder. Stop talking crap.
If you have the itch scratch it, just be careful. The r500 is not particularly nice on the road, the r300 is much better balanced and certainly as quick on the road.
Round a track the R400 is quicker than the R500, although the Evo may be. The engine will go off every 800 track miles, it will require very frequebt oil changes, it will eat tyres and constanly throw up little niggles. Remember it is virtually a race car that has been SVA'd.
What you cant overlook is that R5's are overpriced, thats why that car has been for sale for over a year.
James
With a remap the R500 is transformed on the road .........for some people they will want the ultimate of a certain model..the R500 is that (or Evo).........this R400 v R500 round a track has been done to death and most people acknowledge the R500 to be the quicker car.......I agree with your comments on the engine, its a very highly stressed unit, indeed a 400 probably makes more sense for longevity, BUT for some a 500 is the way to go and there is a premium in price over a 400........its a very specialist bit of kit, not everybody will want engine refreshes thus they take time to sell....BUT as stated above the R3/4/500 represent massive value for money.
Matt
I disagree with your track comparison. I consitanlty lapped oulton quicker in my 400 than in my 500, although I believe the evo will have the edge on a longer track.
I thought the origional post was for a track car not a road car so why remap a race engine to give you road manners?!
I am not bagging that car in particular, at the right money i would have it in a heart beat, but that is the key point.....the right price..
James.S said:
If it is going on the track buy an ex race R400 which will be as quick round a circuit and save yourself £10k
ex R400 racers never seem to be as cheap as people make out. Once you've spent a bit on a few obligatory odds & ends you are invariably looking at 20k minimum... maybe a lot more. Ask Mark Collins what his final bill was !
I think you must be referring to the real bargain basement 15k cheap racers which are not the proper powertrain R400 series cars but rather shockingly ugly make-shift abominations that people declare as being "R400s" simply because they have some rotting 180bhp K series in them. Not the same !
POORCARDEALER said:
for some people they will want the ultimate of a certain model..the R500 is that (or Evo)
Without wishing to offend, the people who recognise the R500 as the "ultimate" can only be the kind who construct their performance car knowledge base solely by the involutary unconcious ingestion of glossy magazine reports, press release balderdash and periodic infantile soundbytes over the years from the likes of Clarkson, Needell, Barker, Frankl et al. .... journalists incidentally, who probably don't even properly own cars let alone know anything real about them.
No, you needed to have been around at the time... in amongst the real R500 owners, the beta testers as it were... the likes of Higgs, Ince, Martin, Richens, Gridgeway. ONLY THEN YOU WOULD REALLY KNOW !
long live the ZETEC !
OK, I've mailed Nigel Bent and asked him to post here. He'll either post direct if he's a PH forum member (I'm not sure he is) or through me.
James, had you ever thought that the relative speed of R400 or R500 on track might have something to do with the ability of the driver?...I note that your comments are based around your own experiences in driving both cars....
Rich, I turned down the SLR that Mark eventually bought...it now belongs to Simon Scott as it happens...and you're right, Mark spent a lot of money on that car, or to be precise, on the engines for that car....!
Rich,
You can get an ex racer for way under 20k, R4's running this year in good nick have changed hands for 16-18k, C400's from 24-28k.
I was trying to point out that there are many ways to acheive 500 preformcance, and surpass it, without paying the silly 500 money.
You will see from my earlier post that if you really wanna spend 25kplus there are better ways to do it, such as a 500 chassis nad a racetech duratech........now I wonder who else has done that
....of which incedently I know of a very nice used mango one
rubystone, please lets not get into I am a better driver than you crap. I am just saying that my400 was quicker than my500, I think that is valid, how much quicker do you think a 500 should be??
You can get an ex racer for way under 20k, R4's running this year in good nick have changed hands for 16-18k, C400's from 24-28k.
I was trying to point out that there are many ways to acheive 500 preformcance, and surpass it, without paying the silly 500 money.
You will see from my earlier post that if you really wanna spend 25kplus there are better ways to do it, such as a 500 chassis nad a racetech duratech........now I wonder who else has done that
....of which incedently I know of a very nice used mango one rubystone, please lets not get into I am a better driver than you crap. I am just saying that my400 was quicker than my500, I think that is valid, how much quicker do you think a 500 should be??
James.S said:
rubystone, please lets not get into I am a better driver than you crap. I am just saying that my400 was quicker than my500, I think that is valid, how much quicker do you think a 500 should be??
I didn't say I was a better driver than you did I?...better re-read my post...
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