Caterham or Ultima?

[robinm]

Am thinking of selling the 911 and buying an ordinary motor for daily use and another car for mainly track work.

I've been reading the posts here and seem to have narrowed my requirements down to something like an R300 or R400, with wide track and if possible Ford Zetec or Duratech engine. I am looking for a car that dosn't understeer (like the 911), and that is reasonably reliable, and fun to drive.

I would be interested to hear comments on spending a bit more money and going for an Ultima with around 400 - 450 bhp?

[jackal]

ultimas


sadly consigned to that quite large body of cars known as "ultimate trackdays weapons that you never see at trackdays"

if you really must run one as even an occasional trackday car, then I would go into it with deep pockets and expecting something far short of porsche reliability

[rubystone]

robinm said:

something like an R300 or R400, with wide track and if possible Ford Zetec or Duratech engine.

The R300 & 400 come with a K series and widetrack as standard. Most Zetec engined 7s either started life as crossflows or were purpose built with that engine as a kit. Caterham didn't ever supply the Zetec as a factory fit option.

Aside from a nearly new CSR, the Duratecs out there won't be factory built cars either - that's not to say there's anything wrong with them though.

[jackal]

robinm said:

something like an R300 or R400, with wide track and if possible Ford Zetec or Duratech engine.

a bit like this then:

[racecardoctor]

thats really nice Jackal, but that green is terrible, mango would look so much better - shame you never see them for sale

PS when did you become the forum moderator?

[robinm]

Thanks for the above so far.

Your car looks the ticket, Jackal. Very nice - I did have a look at it on your profile earlier. Given the rarity of Duratech-engined models, do I continue to look for something similar or is it better to convert from an existing base model? And if so what's the best starting platform? Lastly, if anyone is still with me, is a budget of £20,000 enough?

Apologies if this subject has been done to death in the past.

[jackal]

racecardoctor said:

thats really nice Jackal, but that green is terrible, mango would look so much better - shame you never see them for sale

PS when did you become the forum moderator?

IRTA: "hold on Mrs Smith, Ive just got to type this into your medical notes"

[jackal]

robinm said:

Given the rarity of Duratech-engined models, do I continue to look for something similar or is it better to convert from an existing base model? And if so what's the best starting platform? Lastly, if anyone is still with me, is a budget of £20,000 enough?

mine will be for sale very very soon but likely to be just north of your budget

raceline sold their Duratec car recently for ~20k but whilst it had the engine it was spartan and basic and certainly not an R spec in terms of trim and options.

You are right... used duratec cars just dont really exist (unless you want an SV CSR variant then think 35k++). There are only a few custom series 3 duratec cars that have been made and many by longstanding owners who won't be selling in the near future ( i am thinking Mike Edge, Rob Grigsby etc.. here)

Going the DIY route you could start off from a widetrack supersport or a superlight at around 13-15k (anything less and it hardly seems worth it IMO). This would give you a good base of starting options (carbon, adjustable platforms, widetrack etc..) but never underestimate the mounting costs of say a 2.0 or 2.3 duratec install. IIRC you are looking at 10k+ including everything so you really are looking at a minimum of 25k and thats in a car thats pretty old. Taking resale into account it doesn't make a lot of sense seeing as a new C400 would cost around 6 or 7k more than that brand new.

Good luck though and give us a shout if you need any other info. The duratec in a regular sized chassis is just an awesome foolproof combination and well worth fighting for.

Edited by jackal on Thursday 20th July 16:09

[dino ferrana]

New R400 is coming out at some point, i think the price is around £27k in kit form

210 bhp Duratec under bonnet

[jackal]

£29,495 for a built car.... and once you add the mandatory options like paint, stack dash, 13" rims, rollcage etc.. as per the old R400 pricing, you are looking at more like 31-33k

Edited by jackal on Thursday 20th July 16:40

[robinm]

Thanks again for the above, and Jackal for your informed opinions and advice. Must sell the Porsche first before progressing with this.

[dannylt]

jackal said:

ultimas

sadly consigned to that quite large body of cars known as "ultimate trackdays weapons that you never see at trackdays"

Well, on occasion you see them. Generally going slow, spinning or dumping oil!

[jackal]

dannylt said:

Well, on occasion you see them. Generally going slow, spinning or dumping oil!

or literally going straight on at Riches trying to follow a caterham !:

www.jackals-forge.com/lotus/movies/snet_2005_ultima.wmv

[jaker]

Hi robinm,

you could do as I have done (waiting for delivery of car...) and try these blokes:

www.freestylemotorsport.co.uk

They do s3 chassis cars with Duratec engines and supa wide track inboard suspension.

Gary is an ex-Caterham engineer and knows his 7s big time.

cant wait till mine is ready!!

cheers

jaker

[jaker]

jackal said:

dannylt said:

Well, on occasion you see them. Generally going slow, spinning or dumping oil!

or literally going straight on at Riches trying to follow a caterham !:

www.jackals-forge.com/lotus/movies/snet_2005_ultima.wmv

a wee bit harsh chaps,

I've been on a few trackdays where lone Ultimas were snorting round at a belting rate, thundering v8 soundtrack and looking cool.

I like 'em!!

[jackal]

jaker said:

a wee bit harsh chaps,

I've been on a few trackdays where lone Ultimas were snorting round at a belting rate, thundering v8 soundtrack and looking cool.

yep, harmless fun though and nothing nasty intended. The owner of the red car in teh video is a real nice chap and he was around quite a lot last year. Respect to him for running an ultima for successive trackdays and giving it some.

BUT, ive still never seen a quick Ultima on track. Take a look here at this race prepared Ultima, in a competitive event yet qualifying at approx 160bhp R300 pace:

www.amoc.org/images/stories/documents//competitions/2006/2006%20Snetterton%20Results.pdf

[robinm]

jaker said:

Hi robinm,

you could do as I have done (waiting for delivery of car...) and try these blokes:

www.freestylemotorsport.co.uk

They do s3 chassis cars with Duratec engines and supa wide track inboard suspension.

Gary is an ex-Caterham engineer and knows his 7s big time.

cant wait till mine is ready!!

cheers

jaker

Thanks Jaker. I'll take a look

[POORCARDEALER]

jaker said:

Hi robinm,

you could do as I have done (waiting for delivery of car...) and try these blokes:

www.freestylemotorsport.co.uk

They do s3 chassis cars with Duratec engines and supa wide track inboard suspension.

Gary is an ex-Caterham engineer and knows his 7s big time.

cant wait till mine is ready!!

cheers

jaker

[POORCARDEALER]

jaker said:

Hi robinm,

you could do as I have done (waiting for delivery of car...) and try these blokes:

www.freestylemotorsport.co.uk

They do s3 chassis cars with Duratec engines and supa wide track inboard suspension.

Gary is an ex-Caterham engineer and knows his 7s big time.

cant wait till mine is ready!!

cheers

jaker

[POORCARDEALER]

jaker said:

Hi robinm,

you could do as I have done (waiting for delivery of car...) and try these blokes:

www.freestylemotorsport.co.uk

They do s3 chassis cars with Duratec engines and supa wide track inboard suspension.

Gary is an ex-Caterham engineer and knows his 7s big time.

cant wait till mine is ready!!

cheers

jaker