Caterham Purchase - which one
Discussion
New or used?
Think the best starter car is an original Superlight. The R300's much the same if you want something newer.
Coming from a 911, you may quickly get used to the performance of the std SL (or even feel underwhelmed in straight line terms), so a Superlight R/R400 might be a better bet. Though having said that, the real key with Caterhams is the way they handle, and learning how to handle one with less power is easier (this isn't being patronising - a 100bhp Caterham peddled by someone who knows the car is likely to be quicker than a 200bhp Caterham peddled by a novice)...
The CSRs etc are similar only more so, and allegedly have more robust engines (though if looked after properly, a K needn't be unreliable). Much newer with various "refinements" (being the stick in the mud that I am, I'm far from convinced about things like the new wings, nose, optional dashboard favbrication etc etc), but to me they're getting too expensive for what they are.
If you fit in them, I'd strongly recommend a standard chassis. The whole experience is that bit more intimate, and even at 6'4" and up to 18st, I found the SV a bit too big! The car's all about compromise to me, and squeezing into the car it is part of it. You should feel part of it like a comfy old shoe, not sit in it like a bathtub.
Have a good look at a number of cars as build quality varies enormously (and the factory isn't necessarily best in this respect) and get involved with the club - there are lots of knowledgable people in there who will potentially save you fortunes and you may well get people prepared to look at cars with you.
Think the best starter car is an original Superlight. The R300's much the same if you want something newer.
Coming from a 911, you may quickly get used to the performance of the std SL (or even feel underwhelmed in straight line terms), so a Superlight R/R400 might be a better bet. Though having said that, the real key with Caterhams is the way they handle, and learning how to handle one with less power is easier (this isn't being patronising - a 100bhp Caterham peddled by someone who knows the car is likely to be quicker than a 200bhp Caterham peddled by a novice)...
The CSRs etc are similar only more so, and allegedly have more robust engines (though if looked after properly, a K needn't be unreliable). Much newer with various "refinements" (being the stick in the mud that I am, I'm far from convinced about things like the new wings, nose, optional dashboard favbrication etc etc), but to me they're getting too expensive for what they are.
If you fit in them, I'd strongly recommend a standard chassis. The whole experience is that bit more intimate, and even at 6'4" and up to 18st, I found the SV a bit too big! The car's all about compromise to me, and squeezing into the car it is part of it. You should feel part of it like a comfy old shoe, not sit in it like a bathtub.
Have a good look at a number of cars as build quality varies enormously (and the factory isn't necessarily best in this respect) and get involved with the club - there are lots of knowledgable people in there who will potentially save you fortunes and you may well get people prepared to look at cars with you.
yep wholly agree....get involved with your local area club.....most owners won't need a second chance to share their cars experience's pro's and con's and I'm far from the best behind the wheel but my little 100bhp Vauxhall powered car has embarrassed much more "exotic" machinery on circuit.....
Might want to think about the Widetrack suspension set up as well. It is thought to be less nervy on the road, I have an SV and it comes as standard. I took another sevener out on track in it and he was impressed by how planted it felt.
Agree with the comments about hte club, there is never a problem being taken out in a 7!!
Agree with the comments about hte club, there is never a problem being taken out in a 7!!
Another suggestion - if you are to use the car mainly on track, perhaps consider buying one which has had several performance oriented modificiations already done, dry sump and LSD being two of the key upgrades available. Also think about whether you'd like a 5 or 6 speed gearbox - but to a degree this is a function of the engine choice you plump for and the torque available from that unit (& where in the rev range it's delivered). In my SLR you need to keep it between 6500 and 8000 all the time to get the thing to shift, so a 6 speed is essential.
Lots of cars also have 'shiny' upgrades, i.e. carbon this or carbon that, but other than saving the combined weight of a large tub of flora, they don't *do* very much. Don't pay too much for a pretty looking car. Personally I would go for a car that has a sound mechanical history over one which has been cleaned and polished to within an inch of it's life. Clean cars aren't necesserily mechanically perfrect.... caveat emptor! Although most things are cheap to fix/rectify.
For cars that have already been used hard, perhaps check for evidence of g/box or LSD rebuilds, or see if they've had their engines refreshed.
I'd suggest joining Blatchat, the L7 club forum, although there is a real mixture of knowledge and personalities on there, which is sometimes interesting when discussing more technical topics!
PS I'm almost 6'6 and nearly 19st and have a narrow bodied car with full cage, so try both before you buy. They are supposed to be snug. The car is a lot easier to throw around than my old RS 911.
Lots of cars also have 'shiny' upgrades, i.e. carbon this or carbon that, but other than saving the combined weight of a large tub of flora, they don't *do* very much. Don't pay too much for a pretty looking car. Personally I would go for a car that has a sound mechanical history over one which has been cleaned and polished to within an inch of it's life. Clean cars aren't necesserily mechanically perfrect.... caveat emptor! Although most things are cheap to fix/rectify.
For cars that have already been used hard, perhaps check for evidence of g/box or LSD rebuilds, or see if they've had their engines refreshed.
I'd suggest joining Blatchat, the L7 club forum, although there is a real mixture of knowledge and personalities on there, which is sometimes interesting when discussing more technical topics!
PS I'm almost 6'6 and nearly 19st and have a narrow bodied car with full cage, so try both before you buy. They are supposed to be snug. The car is a lot easier to throw around than my old RS 911.
Edited by fergus on Thursday 29th June 09:44
More important than widetrack is getting the suspension of the car set up for you, with you in the car.
Take it to a decent specialist, tell them how you like your cars to handle and let them adjust away.
I'm probably in the Luddite minority who doesn't have widetrack on his 7, but it's plenty quick enough. I also think the narrow track looks better
The reason for suggesting the original SLs and SLRs is that they came with most of the nice bits on. R300 left more to the options list, going for big fancy wheels rather than LSDs etc. R400 was better equipped mind.
No matter what anyone says to you about Apollo tanks, the K-series really needs a dry sump if it's getting lots of enthusiastic track work. The Caterham option isn't the onky choice any more, so shop around.
And any K-series needs a 6 speed box OR a modified 5 speed with ratios to suit the car. But 6 speeds is best (cue Ruby telling me it ain't so. Just don't listen to him - he's a salesman and his first 7 was BRG with red wings and RAF roundels).
If you have any concern about resale (I don't as it's not getting sold) you're better off with a recognised production variant (e.g. SL, R300 etc) and only fitting Caterham mods to it. If not, there are some great modified cars out there that won't cost as much as inferior recognised versions...you pay your money etc.
PS I once weighed the fibreglass bits on my car versus the carbon bits I put on (aesthetics mostly), and there is actually a noticeable differnce (couple of kilos IIRC). Granted, for the amount they cost it isn't much, but it's more than some people would have you believe. Maybe I just had ultra thick fibreglass panels.
Take it to a decent specialist, tell them how you like your cars to handle and let them adjust away.
I'm probably in the Luddite minority who doesn't have widetrack on his 7, but it's plenty quick enough. I also think the narrow track looks better
The reason for suggesting the original SLs and SLRs is that they came with most of the nice bits on. R300 left more to the options list, going for big fancy wheels rather than LSDs etc. R400 was better equipped mind.
No matter what anyone says to you about Apollo tanks, the K-series really needs a dry sump if it's getting lots of enthusiastic track work. The Caterham option isn't the onky choice any more, so shop around.
And any K-series needs a 6 speed box OR a modified 5 speed with ratios to suit the car. But 6 speeds is best (cue Ruby telling me it ain't so. Just don't listen to him - he's a salesman and his first 7 was BRG with red wings and RAF roundels).
If you have any concern about resale (I don't as it's not getting sold) you're better off with a recognised production variant (e.g. SL, R300 etc) and only fitting Caterham mods to it. If not, there are some great modified cars out there that won't cost as much as inferior recognised versions...you pay your money etc.
PS I once weighed the fibreglass bits on my car versus the carbon bits I put on (aesthetics mostly), and there is actually a noticeable differnce (couple of kilos IIRC). Granted, for the amount they cost it isn't much, but it's more than some people would have you believe. Maybe I just had ultra thick fibreglass panels.
murph7355 said:
PS I once weighed the fibreglass bits on my car versus the carbon bits I put on (aesthetics mostly), and there is actually a noticeable differnce (couple of kilos IIRC). Granted, for the amount they cost it isn't much, but it's more than some people would have you believe. Maybe I just had ultra thick fibreglass panels.
Murph, however, if you work that out in £/kg, I think you'll agree there are better mods to make?! Agree with your point re the suspension setup. The full cage made a massive difference to mine, as it adds a lot of strength along the beam moment of the car and also torsionally - where an uncaged caterham is typically fairly weak.
murph7355 said:
And any K-series needs a 6 speed box OR a modified 5 speed with ratios to suit the car. But 6 speeds is best (cue Ruby telling me it ain't so. Just don't listen to him - he's a salesman and his first 7 was BRG with red wings and RAF roundels).
But in my defence, I did remove the roundels as soon as I got it home.
...and as you well know, I am a huge fan of the 6 speed - all but one of my Caterhams has had a 6 speeder.
I'd echo all the sound advice here - I came from a 280 bhp 964 RS to a 138 bhp Caterham. Initially that Caterham felt very odd to drive, but after a year I had learnt how to drive it and bought a Superlight R.
In your position, I'd buy a Superlight - the best balanced Caterham and one that is easy to sell on in the future.
rubystone said:
...I'd echo all the sound advice here - I came from a 280 bhp 964 RS to a 138 bhp Caterham. Initially that Caterham felt very odd to drive, but after a year I had learnt how to drive it and bought a Superlight R....
See, he's doing it again. He still can't drive
Fergus - agree entirely on £/kg. But as the very best £/kg change is to stop eating for a week, we all know what we end up doing
And the carbon stuff does look good on the 7 Anyway, SLs and SLRs came with it, so it's "free" Cage is a good idea for a track car, and I can well imagine it stiffens it a lot (I'll find out soon as I intend to fit one to mine now I don't use it as often - i.e. as my only car). Just be careful on the road as your head hurts when it hits the bars!
Got a superlight for sale if your interested.
www.pistonheads.com/sales/85241.htm
www.pistonheads.com/sales/85241.htm
my car will be up for sale very soon if your inetrested
R500 performance but the ultimate combo of reliable duratec engine in an S3 chassis
track biased so includes full logging, billet centre rims, cage etc...
brand new paint job, brand new suspension components, very well known fast car
R500 performance but the ultimate combo of reliable duratec engine in an S3 chassis
track biased so includes full logging, billet centre rims, cage etc...
brand new paint job, brand new suspension components, very well known fast car
jackal said:
my car will be up for sale very soon if your inetrested
R500 performance but the ultimate combo of reliable duratec engine in an S3 chassis
track biased so includes full logging, billet centre rims, cage etc...
brand new paint job, brand new suspension components, very well known fast car
R500 performance but the ultimate combo of reliable duratec engine in an S3 chassis
track biased so includes full logging, billet centre rims, cage etc...
brand new paint job, brand new suspension components, very well known fast car
wanna trade with my Honda Exige?
Oh yea, I can agree with the low power thing. I am trimming my academy roadsport down to 500kg and being that light combined with a meagre 120bhp and 6" tyres means its a hoot to drive. Power aint everything!!
porschesteve said:
Chaps,
Thanks for all of your advice - after doing a bit of initial digging around, those R400's are looking a bit tasty. I think I may look at at a used track-modified version.
Will keep you all updated - thanks again.
S.
Thanks for all of your advice - after doing a bit of initial digging around, those R400's are looking a bit tasty. I think I may look at at a used track-modified version.
Will keep you all updated - thanks again.
S.
Steve just make sure that the car is a genune R400 - not all that are advertised are really R400s - they're ex SLR racecars (I know one that's for sale right now that is advertised as an R400 but is too old to be one).
Secondly, make sure that if you want to use the car on the road, it is already road registered - getting SVA approval for an ex racecar isn't straightforward
rubystone said:
porschesteve said:
Chaps,
Thanks for all of your advice - after doing a bit of initial digging around, those R400's are looking a bit tasty. I think I may look at at a used track-modified version.
Will keep you all updated - thanks again.
S.
Steve just make sure that the car is a genune R400 - not all that are advertised are really R400s - they're ex SLR racecars (I know one that's for sale right now that is advertised as an R400 but is too old to be one). Thanks for all of your advice - after doing a bit of initial digging around, those R400's are looking a bit tasty. I think I may look at at a used track-modified version.
Will keep you all updated - thanks again.
S.
Secondly, make sure that if you want to use the car on the road, it is already road registered - getting SVA approval for an ex racecar isn't straightforward
).jeremyc said:
[
Don't rule out SLRs either: they'll give the same experience as the R400 (unless of course you want a flashy dashboard ).[/quote] I agree - but relatively few SLRs were dry sumped and that is an absolute MUST if you want to track the car IMHO. All R400s come with d/s as standard IIRC
jeremyc said:
Don't rule out SLRs either: they'll give the same experience as the R400 (unless of course you want a flashy dashboard ).
).I agree - but relatively few SLRs were dry sumped and that is an absolute MUST if you want to track the car IMHO. All R400s come with d/s as standard IIRC...oh, and I liked the flashy dashboard so much I went out and bought an R500 Jeremy...and a set of slicks too...all done to ensure that you only lap me once on track days
Edited by rubystone on Friday 30th June 12:35
rubystone said:
jeremyc said:
Don't rule out SLRs either: they'll give the same experience as the R400 (unless of course you want a flashy dashboard ).
I agree - but relatively few SLRs were dry sumped and that is an absolute MUST if you want to track the car IMHO. All R400s come with d/s as standard IIRC...oh, and I liked the flashy dashboard so much I went out and bought an R500 Jeremy...and a set of slicks too...all done to ensure that you only lap me once on track days ).
Good work that man! You must let me know when you're next out and I'll try and come along. We should get that Murph fellow out with us as well. jeremyc said:
...We should get that Murph fellow out with us as well.
He's incapacitated at the moment with a screwed up back sadly.
But the car is being readied for use now that my house/garage is almost finished.
Will be good to get back in the 7 and henceforth it will not be left as long without getting a good thraping.
Mind you, too much time on track with you R500 mongers and I might have to start bank robbery officially to get my RST plans back on track!
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