Radical or Caterham
Discussion
Can't answer your question, but have you considered racing ??
I'm doing the accademy, bloody ace
Here is a pretty good place for the Caterham/Radical debate there are a fair few people here who have had both
(or experience of both)
I quite fancy a Radical because they look cool. I understand this isn't the most constuctive of arguments
I'm doing the accademy, bloody ace
Here is a pretty good place for the Caterham/Radical debate there are a fair few people here who have had both
(or experience of both) I quite fancy a Radical because they look cool. I understand this isn't the most constuctive of arguments
purchase/running costs,
seen some good deals of late for radicals, used caterham equivalents would only be in R300/R400 territory
running costs.... yearly refreshes, i'm no expert but budget 2k a year at least. caterham bound to be cheaper
aggravation levels,
radical just gets the nod IMO, less to go wrong apart from anything else and the 1500 seems very reliable transverse mounted
fun/driving value
speed and smoothness go for the radical and also to learn dwnforce
if you like more movemenet under you and more options then caterham every time
quality, resale
both horrendous, think of all the niggles on a caterhm that they still havent designed out and then think of AVO dampers on a 45k racing car.
both good for resale though IMO
they are quite level IMO, main deciding factor is what sort of driving style you want because they are both totally different
seen some good deals of late for radicals, used caterham equivalents would only be in R300/R400 territory
running costs.... yearly refreshes, i'm no expert but budget 2k a year at least. caterham bound to be cheaper
aggravation levels,
radical just gets the nod IMO, less to go wrong apart from anything else and the 1500 seems very reliable transverse mounted
fun/driving value
speed and smoothness go for the radical and also to learn dwnforce
if you like more movemenet under you and more options then caterham every time
quality, resale
both horrendous, think of all the niggles on a caterhm that they still havent designed out and then think of AVO dampers on a 45k racing car.
both good for resale though IMO
they are quite level IMO, main deciding factor is what sort of driving style you want because they are both totally different
hmmm, a mate who runs Global Lights tells me that Radicals are not that reliable - perhaps he's talking about the earlier ones though?
I guess you really need to speak to Richard Ince - a search on Blatchat might reveal his e-mail address (search under "For Sale" for R500 within the last year) - he now runs an SR8 having peviously run an R500 as a racecar for some years.
I guess you really need to speak to Richard Ince - a search on Blatchat might reveal his e-mail address (search under "For Sale" for R500 within the last year) - he now runs an SR8 having peviously run an R500 as a racecar for some years.
Incorrigible said:
but I thought the quality of my Caterham was pretty bloody good
30 years on, and they still havent managed to iron out the fuel filler cap p1ssing out fuel on left handers, having to push the skin around to get the dampers off, rivnuts which rip out the bodywork when your wing comes off, a race cage thats all but impossible to fit etc.. etc...
i think the quality of components is generally pretty good but there are design issues which IMO could be improved quite easily with little investment or R&D
Every radical owner I've ever spoken to on a track day has said they've had more reliability issues than they expected. One guy at Oulton a few weeks ago spent practically the whole day in the garage on the phone to the factory with a problem car which was only some 4 weeks old.
Still quite fancy one though
Still quite fancy one though
Incorrigible said:
Can't answer your question, but have you considered racing ??
I'm doing the accademy, bloody ace
I quite fancy a Radical because they look cool. I understand this isn't the most constuctive of arguments
Hi Ben
You may remember we enjoyed a few fast laps in close proximity to one another at Silverstone in those dreadful conditions on 27 July. When are you out again ? I'm planning Oulton on the 6th & I guess you'll be at Cadwell on the 9th (in prep for the racing) but that's now fully booked for me.
55jnj said:I know either car will give me the fun I am looking for. However, if one comes with MUCH more trouble than the other the decision is easily made.
Every radical owner I've ever spoken to on a track day has said they've had more reliability issues than they expected. One guy at Oulton a few weeks ago spent practically the whole day in the garage on the phone to the factory with a problem car which was only some 4 weeks old.
Still quite fancy one though
jackal said:
i think the quality of components is generally pretty good but there are design issues which IMO could be improved quite easily with little investment or R&D
Totally agree with that, and wish the new owners would do just that rather than the other stuff they seem to be messing with.
gra001 said:
I know either car will give me the fun I am looking for.
surely you have a preference for driving style though... wouldn't that be the main pointer ???
i would have thought that you were firmly either in one camp or the other. I mean, ones pretty darn planted, mega fast in high speed bends, mid engined with proper downforce ....the other is generally on a lazy setup by comparison, quite a bit more playable and progressive, front engined and with you sitting right over the back axle with a sh1tload of movement underneath you. Chalk and cheese n'est-ce pas ?
jackal said:
I know either car will give me the fun I am looking for.
surely you have a preference for driving style though... wouldn't that be the main pointer ???
i would have thought that you were firmly either in one camp or the other. I mean, ones pretty darn planted, mega fast in high speed bends, mid engined with proper downforce ....the other is generally on a lazy setup by comparison, quite a bit more playable and progressive, front engined and with you sitting right over the back axle with a sh1tload of movement underneath you. Chalk and cheese n'est-ce pas ?
jackal said:
gra001 said:
I know either car will give me the fun I am looking for.
surely you have a preference for driving style though... wouldn't that be the main pointer ???
i would have thought that you were firmly either in one camp or the other. I mean, ones pretty darn planted, mega fast in high speed bends, mid engined with proper downforce ....the other is generally on a lazy setup by comparison, quite a bit more playable and progressive, front engined and with you sitting right over the back axle with a sh1tload of movement underneath you. Chalk and cheese n'est-ce pas ?
Yep, know what you mean. All track work been on bikes for the past few years so both Cat and Radical will be new experience.
>> Edited by gra001 on Wednesday 24th August 10:26
55jnj said:Really? Mine only let me down once in two years of track days - an electric water pump failure. Also, the parts service is fantastic - almost everything is in stock and arrives the next day. On a couple of occasions I took it to the factory with very little notice and they sorted my problems out straight away - impressive, but I guess not cheap.
Every radical owner I've ever spoken to on a track day has said they've had more reliability issues than they expected.
: :
gra001 said:I'd say pretty much equal trouble at track days, though certainly much cheaper running costs with the Caterham, and less overall hassle.
I know either car will give me the fun I am looking for. However, if one comes with MUCH more trouble than the other the decision is easily made.
Rumours in racing paddocks are that Radicals are expensive to run. I can't back that up with any hard evidence though.
Caterhams have a fantastic owners club, which is worth a huge amount for me. You also have a big enough boot for a weekend away and genuine road useability.
I can second the comment about the car moving under you with a Caterham - they are fantastic fun on track days - a piece of cake to dance around on the limit at any speed or in any corner. There aren't many cars I feel as confident pratting about at high speed it! I never spun despite this...
The other question is is a Radical too fast for a track day? With my modest VVC Caterham I was overtaking about 5 or 6 cars per lap on track days - god knows what it would be like in a Radical - could you ever get the clear track to enjoy it?
It is certainly worth considering racing. Maybe look into Sports 2000 racing or something? Similar performance to a Radical but a lot cheaper to maintain. With the right racing championship you will have a lot more fun than on track days, you will also become a better driver faster because you push yourself constantly, and you will also make lots of great friends. I only race a Metro, and have got more out of that than I did owning a Caterham - though I confess the actual driving of the Caterham was faster, more fun and more absorbing.
When I have the money to own a fast car again, I plan to go Sports 2000 racing :-)
Caterhams have a fantastic owners club, which is worth a huge amount for me. You also have a big enough boot for a weekend away and genuine road useability.
I can second the comment about the car moving under you with a Caterham - they are fantastic fun on track days - a piece of cake to dance around on the limit at any speed or in any corner. There aren't many cars I feel as confident pratting about at high speed it! I never spun despite this...
The other question is is a Radical too fast for a track day? With my modest VVC Caterham I was overtaking about 5 or 6 cars per lap on track days - god knows what it would be like in a Radical - could you ever get the clear track to enjoy it?
It is certainly worth considering racing. Maybe look into Sports 2000 racing or something? Similar performance to a Radical but a lot cheaper to maintain. With the right racing championship you will have a lot more fun than on track days, you will also become a better driver faster because you push yourself constantly, and you will also make lots of great friends. I only race a Metro, and have got more out of that than I did owning a Caterham - though I confess the actual driving of the Caterham was faster, more fun and more absorbing.
When I have the money to own a fast car again, I plan to go Sports 2000 racing :-)
jackal said:
but I thought the quality of my Caterham was pretty bloody good
30 years on, and they still havent managed to iron out the fuel filler cap p1ssing out fuel on left handers, having to push the skin around to get the dampers off, rivnuts which rip out the bodywork when your wing comes off, a race cage thats all but impossible to fit etc.. etc...
i think the quality of components is generally pretty good but there are design issues which IMO could be improved quite easily with little investment or R&D
The cars from 2003 onwards have a valve in the fuel breather and shouldn't piss fuel, mine certainly doesn't. Yes you do have to push the skin in to get the top front damper bolt out, but it's not something you do every day exactly. Everyone I know fixes the rear arches with plastic bolts so they shear off before the rivnuts rip out if you clout a rear wing.
But I agree they ar differnt drives, the Radical is very impressive and chuffing fast but I too have heard storeys of big bills and I find the Caterhams more hooligan style more to my liking.
Also you can use a Caterham on the road, Radicals are a bit marginal as road cars.
bertie said:
The cars from 2003 onwards have a valve in the fuel breather and shouldn't piss fuel, mine certainly doesn't.
the second CSR ever built was pissing out fuel on me the other day ..... and it had the fuel vent valve fitted. There's a video on my site of it with me changing line erratically and twitching around and stuff.
bertie said:
Yes you do have to push the skin in to get the top front damper bolt out, but it's not something you do every day exactly.
its still poor design and accurately symbolic of my overall sentiment
bertie said:
Everyone I know fixes the rear arches with plastic bolts so they shear off before the rivnuts rip out if you clout a rear wing.
everyone i know does that too.... but WHY SHOULD THEY HAVE TO - do it at the factory or the homebuild from the start ???? and whats more, most people do it only after they have ripped and damaged their skin for the first time.
i sympathise with your urge to defend the marque which you love but the bottom line is, there are plenty of areas for improvement (these were only 3 off the cuff examples) and 30 years is a long time to get these things right.
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