why Caterham is blocking?
Discussion
Hello ,
(I use a translator, sorry ) The sale of Caterhams in France (and I think throughout the European Union) has been blocked for more than 6 months, because according to my mechanic, the engine must be approved, which must be less polluting. The English are less strict on it. So I've been waiting for 8 months since I placed my order :-( And it would be the same reason for the ban on normal road traffic (but ok if on a private circuit) of the Caterham 620 turbo ... They have been banned since years.
I don't understand why 90% of car models sold are now turbocharged, even bi-turbo! , and also electric hybrids, while the Caterham turbo is bad and failed. A turbo is added almost every time, because it reduces pollution, because it lowers consumption, and it reduces the tax category therefore the tax to be paid to the state, ..... AND in addition to all these many advantages, it greatly increases the weight / power ratio. Today many cars of "Mr Everyone" do the 0 to 100km / h "in 7 seconds", and the electric motor adds that power. Caterham seems to stay in the prehistory now and does not exploit at all what all the others do, the turbo. AND especially for a brand that has the (very good) obsession with the weight/power ratio!
Does anyone have any information on all these Caterham problems. With many thanks
(I use a translator, sorry ) The sale of Caterhams in France (and I think throughout the European Union) has been blocked for more than 6 months, because according to my mechanic, the engine must be approved, which must be less polluting. The English are less strict on it. So I've been waiting for 8 months since I placed my order :-( And it would be the same reason for the ban on normal road traffic (but ok if on a private circuit) of the Caterham 620 turbo ... They have been banned since years.
I don't understand why 90% of car models sold are now turbocharged, even bi-turbo! , and also electric hybrids, while the Caterham turbo is bad and failed. A turbo is added almost every time, because it reduces pollution, because it lowers consumption, and it reduces the tax category therefore the tax to be paid to the state, ..... AND in addition to all these many advantages, it greatly increases the weight / power ratio. Today many cars of "Mr Everyone" do the 0 to 100km / h "in 7 seconds", and the electric motor adds that power. Caterham seems to stay in the prehistory now and does not exploit at all what all the others do, the turbo. AND especially for a brand that has the (very good) obsession with the weight/power ratio!
Does anyone have any information on all these Caterham problems. With many thanks
hello Equus,
I had read a test of the 620 turbo, which said that the power was only available at the top of the engine revolutions, and appeared "brutally" and with a little delay... For me it corresponded to a real turbo taken from the exhaust gases, and not the old and outdated technology of the compressor, which takes its energy from the crankshaft from the first revolutions of the engine.... But you're right, it's a compressor and not a turbo (as I thought from the tests read).
"All" thermal cars are currently turbocharged, to pass euro6 pollution tests,... And Caterham fails with its 620 turbo, and also fails in the power-to-weight ratio which is its "obsession", because all cars are gaining enormously in power currently, unlike Caterham .
Failure in pollution, failure in weight/power currently, failure in CO2 rejection taxes: There is a penalty in France of €15,000 for the 485! due to this "prehistoric engine without turbo, or with the 620 not developed
We have to pay 15,000 € more, in taxes for this old 485 polluting engine, and the other Caterham, the 620 is even more polluting and completely prohibited on the road :-(((
All that is very difficult to understand from Caterham
I had read a test of the 620 turbo, which said that the power was only available at the top of the engine revolutions, and appeared "brutally" and with a little delay... For me it corresponded to a real turbo taken from the exhaust gases, and not the old and outdated technology of the compressor, which takes its energy from the crankshaft from the first revolutions of the engine.... But you're right, it's a compressor and not a turbo (as I thought from the tests read).
"All" thermal cars are currently turbocharged, to pass euro6 pollution tests,... And Caterham fails with its 620 turbo, and also fails in the power-to-weight ratio which is its "obsession", because all cars are gaining enormously in power currently, unlike Caterham .
Failure in pollution, failure in weight/power currently, failure in CO2 rejection taxes: There is a penalty in France of €15,000 for the 485! due to this "prehistoric engine without turbo, or with the 620 not developed
We have to pay 15,000 € more, in taxes for this old 485 polluting engine, and the other Caterham, the 620 is even more polluting and completely prohibited on the road :-(((
All that is very difficult to understand from Caterham
A french problem ? not sure at all ... it is a problem of all the European Union... and the pollution must be framed, and slowed down. It will surely be an English problem too soon. It's a pity and incomprehensible that a brand entirely focused on power and agility, lightness, still does not have a turbo .
(.... And becomes a car much less amazing for these engine characteristics, with the new turbo engine put on each brand of car," all over the world" , and more and more added to the power of the electric motor)
(.... And becomes a car much less amazing for these engine characteristics, with the new turbo engine put on each brand of car," all over the world" , and more and more added to the power of the electric motor)
OK, EU then. Personally I don't care for turbocharged engines (owned a couple cars with them), and I would never have bought/built a Caterham if turbo was the only option. If Caterham doesn't want to meet EU emissions regs with a modern, soulless turbo engine, then I can't say it bothers me.
It sounds like you don't really understand the whole point of a Caterham, which is a small, light, minimalist car with as few additions as possible. With the exception of the 170 (which is turbocharged as it's such a small engine in a physically smaller car originally for the Japanese market), and the 620 (mechanically supercharged to have enormous power for the fun of it, which many people say is actually far too much power), pretty much all other Caterhams have always been small capacity, four cylinder, naturally aspirated engines.
The whole point of an engine like that is that it's simple to work on, easy to tune, gives much better throttle response, makes a great noise, is light, and is small enough to fit in the limited space under the bonnet.
If you are looking for mild hybrids, multiple turbochargers or the latest emission regulations, perhaps a Caterham is not for you. However there are lots of other similar 7 style cars that might be more suitable for that type of engine, if that's what you like.
The whole point of an engine like that is that it's simple to work on, easy to tune, gives much better throttle response, makes a great noise, is light, and is small enough to fit in the limited space under the bonnet.
If you are looking for mild hybrids, multiple turbochargers or the latest emission regulations, perhaps a Caterham is not for you. However there are lots of other similar 7 style cars that might be more suitable for that type of engine, if that's what you like.
The Caterham club in Britain have organised a number of Zoom meetings with Caterham’s management over the past few years.
In those meetings the Caterham management suggested that their resources were being channeled into the development of an electric sports car that would ultimately replace the Seven.
They seemed to be implying that no further engine options would be developed. Perhaps that will change with the recent announcement that small companies will be exempt from the ban on internal combustion engines in the EU? I can’t say I’m optimistic though.
In those meetings the Caterham management suggested that their resources were being channeled into the development of an electric sports car that would ultimately replace the Seven.
They seemed to be implying that no further engine options would be developed. Perhaps that will change with the recent announcement that small companies will be exempt from the ban on internal combustion engines in the EU? I can’t say I’m optimistic though.
it's probably too expensive, finally, for Caterham, a "small" car company, to put a new turbo engine, like 90% of new cars that are currently sold, with thermal engines.
With the obligation in "2035" (for several (=? or all) EU countries, therefore Caterham customers) to prohibit the sale of new cars with combustion engines . Caterham therefore has the obligation to focus only, from now on, on the electric motor
With the obligation in "2035" (for several (=? or all) EU countries, therefore Caterham customers) to prohibit the sale of new cars with combustion engines . Caterham therefore has the obligation to focus only, from now on, on the electric motor
moivre said:
it's probably too expensive, finally, for Caterham, a "small" car company, to put a new turbo engine...
Westfield managed it with the Sport 250, which was specifically designed for the European market - they knew it wouldn't be a big seller in the UK, because the characteristics of turbo engines don't really suit Locaterfields very well.Caterham build 500 or so cars a year - there is a long waiting list for new orders - they don't 'need' to do anything for any market.
What they are focusing on right now will be how they go electric and how they keep their motorsport arm active with the sigma not being available any more.
What they are focusing on right now will be how they go electric and how they keep their motorsport arm active with the sigma not being available any more.
moivre said:
not the old and outdated technology of the compressor,
Lol.Ok, engine driven supercharging is about 145 years old compared to approx 118 years old for turbine driven supercharging but neither are spring chickens.
Maybe though, you need to understand what they are, how they work and why you might choose one over the other.
moivre said:
a Garry: ..... Compressor technology no longer exists! and has been advantageously replaced by the turbo, even better, the bi-turbo
Errr,A turbo has a compressor, its the bit driven by the turbine.
The reasons for using an engine driven supercharger are important and goes to the heart of the philosophy of a caterham.
Turbo's have major advantages but throttle response isn't one of them. As such Caterham uses this technology that 'no longer exists' in preference to a turbocharger giving similar power. Loosing out on efficiency and emissions to improved throttle response. Vitally important in a light, high powered car.
As to the 'lol', it wasn't personal but its interesting that anyone can think of engine driven supercharging as old fashioned compared to turbo supercharging.
Also ""All" thermal cars are currently turbocharged, to pass euro6 pollution tests", not true. Yes its a solution that many have chosen to meet the demand for performance and still meet emission targets, but certainly not "All" cars are turbocharged.
Its amusing to think that a number of years ago, people were prophesising the end of the turbocharger because its placement didn't allow catalytic converters to reach light off quick enough in the emissions test. How things change.
So the question remains, do you see the advantages and disadvantages of each solution ?
Edited by Gary C on Wednesday 8th March 12:48
All right .
But advantages and disadvantages... I see:
The blocking of the homologation of the 485 for 8 months
I see the ban on the sale of the 620
I see all the cars which increase their performance a lot in 10 to 15 years while Caterham is frozen when it is an essential parameter of his mind
But advantages and disadvantages... I see:
The blocking of the homologation of the 485 for 8 months
I see the ban on the sale of the 620
I see all the cars which increase their performance a lot in 10 to 15 years while Caterham is frozen when it is an essential parameter of his mind
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