420 Cup Specification Advice
Discussion
I had a 1.4 K series some years ago.
After a test drive, I put a deposit down for a 420 Cup on Saturday. Spec cut off not until June 23, and I know what I'm going for in terms of colour & body / chassis options + roll cage, but I thought I'd ask for some advice on a few items I'm undecided on, as I don't want to waste money by "ticking all the options".
Aero wishbone - obviously looks a bit nicer, but the non-aero are fitted to the race cars so presumably more than strong enough. Would I get most of the £400 extra back come resale? My gut feel is not to bother, but should I?
Heater - I'm unlikely to drive much in the winter & I know the cars can get quite warm through heat sink - Again I'm minded not to specify, but should I?
Heated Carbon Seats - I'm going for the carbon seats as they fit me nicely. Not sure about the heat pads - might be nice with no heater on those occasional crisp winters day drives. I think they are a £400 option. If you have them are they worth they extra?
LED lights - A very expensive upgrade at £800. I don't envisage driving very much at night. I have seen a thread on aftermarket options. How terrible are the standard lights?
Thanks in anticipation.
After a test drive, I put a deposit down for a 420 Cup on Saturday. Spec cut off not until June 23, and I know what I'm going for in terms of colour & body / chassis options + roll cage, but I thought I'd ask for some advice on a few items I'm undecided on, as I don't want to waste money by "ticking all the options".
Aero wishbone - obviously looks a bit nicer, but the non-aero are fitted to the race cars so presumably more than strong enough. Would I get most of the £400 extra back come resale? My gut feel is not to bother, but should I?
Heater - I'm unlikely to drive much in the winter & I know the cars can get quite warm through heat sink - Again I'm minded not to specify, but should I?
Heated Carbon Seats - I'm going for the carbon seats as they fit me nicely. Not sure about the heat pads - might be nice with no heater on those occasional crisp winters day drives. I think they are a £400 option. If you have them are they worth they extra?
LED lights - A very expensive upgrade at £800. I don't envisage driving very much at night. I have seen a thread on aftermarket options. How terrible are the standard lights?
Thanks in anticipation.
Congratulations, sounds like a great car you'll be getting!
Speccing a Caterham is a very personal thing so opinions will differ, but that said here's my take (as an ex K Series Supersport R and current R300D owner)
Aero wish bones - don't bother, spend the money elsewhere.
Heater - My K series was sans heater, my Duratec has one fitted so I've seen both sides. Despite the heat generated by the Duratec and the fact I don't drive in winter either, I like it. Even early summer mornings can start chilly so I would have it. Doesn't really weigh much or get in the way.
Heated Seats - Definitely! As above for keeping warm
LED Lights - If you're not driving at night then I wouldn't bother with the fronts, I just changed the bulbs in my front lights and they're good enough for the odd time I drive in the dark. What I did do was change the rear bulbs for LED ones from Just Add Lightness for about £300 and fit a high level LED centre brake light. I'm paranoid about being rear ended by someone not seeing me braking so felt that was a worthwhile upgrade (they're very bright!). If you really fancy fitting front LED lights it can be done a lot cheaper than £800 from CC.
Picture of the rear lights here if you are interested.
Speccing a Caterham is a very personal thing so opinions will differ, but that said here's my take (as an ex K Series Supersport R and current R300D owner)
Aero wish bones - don't bother, spend the money elsewhere.
Heater - My K series was sans heater, my Duratec has one fitted so I've seen both sides. Despite the heat generated by the Duratec and the fact I don't drive in winter either, I like it. Even early summer mornings can start chilly so I would have it. Doesn't really weigh much or get in the way.
Heated Seats - Definitely! As above for keeping warm
LED Lights - If you're not driving at night then I wouldn't bother with the fronts, I just changed the bulbs in my front lights and they're good enough for the odd time I drive in the dark. What I did do was change the rear bulbs for LED ones from Just Add Lightness for about £300 and fit a high level LED centre brake light. I'm paranoid about being rear ended by someone not seeing me braking so felt that was a worthwhile upgrade (they're very bright!). If you really fancy fitting front LED lights it can be done a lot cheaper than £800 from CC.
Picture of the rear lights here if you are interested.
These are very personal choices and I expect you will get a lot of different answers.
For me, the best thing I did to my car was remove the heater. I could never turn mine completely off so in summer always got hot footwells.
I have had cars with both types of wishbone and I would always spec the aero ones as they look so much better IMHO
I would get the heated seats, especially if you are not taking the heater but I have not tried them in a Caterham myself.
The standard lights are abysmal in my experience and it's definitely worth spending money on better ones if you are going to do any night driving. You will inevitably end up driving it home from somewhere in the dark.
These cars are not really budget vehicles so better to spend the money and get a thing of absolute beauty from the outset.
For me, the best thing I did to my car was remove the heater. I could never turn mine completely off so in summer always got hot footwells.
I have had cars with both types of wishbone and I would always spec the aero ones as they look so much better IMHO
I would get the heated seats, especially if you are not taking the heater but I have not tried them in a Caterham myself.
The standard lights are abysmal in my experience and it's definitely worth spending money on better ones if you are going to do any night driving. You will inevitably end up driving it home from somewhere in the dark.
These cars are not really budget vehicles so better to spend the money and get a thing of absolute beauty from the outset.
Took my car out 2 days ago, leaving at 9.30. Fleece, beanie, heater on and heated seats on! By 10:30 didn’t need beanie, heater or heated seats. Would have been miserable/cold for the first hour without them. Personal choice at the end of the day but I won’t want to be cold if I don’t need too!
I ticked aero wishbones on my 420R kit when i ordered it, only because I really like the look of them, no other reason. As people have said it is all very personal. I didn't spec heater or heated seat pads, but I don't really feel the cold anyway. The only time I wished i had a heater was a February a few years back coming home from Cadwell when it was so cold the water in the footwell froze!
I have all those options on my 420R.
I would say LED lights and heated seats are musts for me, I love both, the aero wishbones I do like because they make the the car look a bit more special overall, but obviously not essential. The Heater I never use, the seats are much more effective, I wouldn’t bother with it.
I would say LED lights and heated seats are musts for me, I love both, the aero wishbones I do like because they make the the car look a bit more special overall, but obviously not essential. The Heater I never use, the seats are much more effective, I wouldn’t bother with it.
Aero wishbones look cool, but that's about it...adding aero to something with the aero of a barn door is a bit of a waste of time.
LED lights...yes, but I'd be buying aftermarket at a fraction of the price.
Heater...for me it's a definite yes. My old ex-Academy Roadsport had one, as does my R400, and that's fairly unusual for those specs of cars. IMHO it makes a huge difference on those mornings/evenings like we are getting now, and can also make a crisp winter blat an altogether much more pleasant prospect. That said, you are buying a totally focussed track car, so only you will know what the real usage will be an whether it's worth the negligible weight penalty!
Heated seats...can't comment as I've never had them, but might be a good thing!
LED lights...yes, but I'd be buying aftermarket at a fraction of the price.
Heater...for me it's a definite yes. My old ex-Academy Roadsport had one, as does my R400, and that's fairly unusual for those specs of cars. IMHO it makes a huge difference on those mornings/evenings like we are getting now, and can also make a crisp winter blat an altogether much more pleasant prospect. That said, you are buying a totally focussed track car, so only you will know what the real usage will be an whether it's worth the negligible weight penalty!
Heated seats...can't comment as I've never had them, but might be a good thing!
BryanC said:
An interesting road test in this month's Motor Sport.
Suggested that usability of high power 7s is limited on today's roads and proposed something with lower power was better for using the engine revs more effectively.
I'd be inclined to agree in many ways. My old car had 125bhp and I could give it a decent amount of welly a lot of the time on road. My new car has 200bhp+ and driving the same route and I'll only be able to give it full beans for a lot less of the time. One thing I've learned from group blats is unless you are driving like a complete lunatic, the cars all go a fairly similar speed on the average A/B road, my last run had a 620R, an R400K and a 170S and there's actually not much in it. Suggested that usability of high power 7s is limited on today's roads and proposed something with lower power was better for using the engine revs more effectively.
Problem is, obviously there's a big difference on track, the acclereration of a higher power car is addictive and intoxicating when you do get the opportunity to use it, the point and squirt overtaking ability is very useful, and very few people go "I love my current Caterham but my next one will probably have less power".
Hard-Drive said:
Problem is, obviously there's a big difference on track, the acclereration of a higher power car is addictive and intoxicating when you do get the opportunity to use it, the point and squirt overtaking ability is very useful, and very few people go "I love my current Caterham but my next one will probably have less power".
I am that person. I absolutely said my R500 is not as much fun on the road as I want, I'll get a 1600 k-series supersport I also found it actually more fun on track. Maybe I'm just strange!Personal choice but my opinion: yes to heater, even gets used in the summer for early morning or late drives. Dusk trips out for fish and chips with a friend in another sportscar are the best, and much nicer with some warmth. Heated seats- nice to have but I wouldn't for the cost, the heater is very effective. LED lights- will be cheaper to sort aftermarket if you find the originals not good enough.
Thanks all for the input so far.
BryanC said:
An interesting road test in this month's Motor Sport.
Suggested that usability of high power 7s is limited on today's roads and proposed something with lower power was better for using the engine revs more effectively.
I'm going for the 420 Cup having tried a 620 S which I felt would be too stiffly sprung to be much fun on anything but nice smooth roads and on track. Suggested that usability of high power 7s is limited on today's roads and proposed something with lower power was better for using the engine revs more effectively.
Edited by andy tims on Thursday 6th October 11:55
Re: Options for 420 Cup
Don't bother with any of that stuff... aero, heater, heated seats, LEDs, etc.
A 420 Cup is meant to be used on track, and any future buyer is unlikely to place the same value on that stuff as it will cost you. In fact, with all that "softie stuff" on it the car will very likely be less appealing, as it will be neither fish nor fowl... is it a track car, or is it a heated seat/warm/semi-exciting but with the raw edges softened weekend toy? You might as well spec a stereo and coffee cup holders. If you want plush, buy a Mercedes :-)
Re: Power on Road vs Track
I'm spoiled, as I have a 1600 K Series (approx 140bhp) which is an absolute blast on the road, as well as fun on track AND a mental/mind-bending - Hayabusa engined - dry sumped - 6 speed sequential gearboxed - monster that has slightly more power than a 420 Cup yet weighs almost 100kgs less. It has 460bhp per tonne.
While it IS drivable on the road, it's nothing like as much fun as my 1600 K Series. In the Hayabusa engined car, everything happens SO FAST you quite literally have to reprogram your brain. The next corner/obstacle approaches at mind-warp speed and you need the reactions of a fighter-pilot to drive it properly. It's so fast it's like being in a video game.
In sum:
- I much prefer the 'slow' K Series on the road
- I much prefer the stupidly fast Hayabusa on track
Don't bother with any of that stuff... aero, heater, heated seats, LEDs, etc.
A 420 Cup is meant to be used on track, and any future buyer is unlikely to place the same value on that stuff as it will cost you. In fact, with all that "softie stuff" on it the car will very likely be less appealing, as it will be neither fish nor fowl... is it a track car, or is it a heated seat/warm/semi-exciting but with the raw edges softened weekend toy? You might as well spec a stereo and coffee cup holders. If you want plush, buy a Mercedes :-)
Re: Power on Road vs Track
I'm spoiled, as I have a 1600 K Series (approx 140bhp) which is an absolute blast on the road, as well as fun on track AND a mental/mind-bending - Hayabusa engined - dry sumped - 6 speed sequential gearboxed - monster that has slightly more power than a 420 Cup yet weighs almost 100kgs less. It has 460bhp per tonne.
While it IS drivable on the road, it's nothing like as much fun as my 1600 K Series. In the Hayabusa engined car, everything happens SO FAST you quite literally have to reprogram your brain. The next corner/obstacle approaches at mind-warp speed and you need the reactions of a fighter-pilot to drive it properly. It's so fast it's like being in a video game.
In sum:
- I much prefer the 'slow' K Series on the road
- I much prefer the stupidly fast Hayabusa on track
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