Can an Elise be made fun on the limit like a 7?
Discussion
I have a Caterham and love it. For years... In the dry.
I just don't use it for longer trips if I know I'm going to be stuck for 5 hours in the rain.
Obvious solution would seem to be adding an Elise to the garage for the mixed weather trips.
BUT what I love about the 7, is it's good nature on the limit. Push to hard and the front squeaks a bit. Boot full too early and the back steps out a bit. All easy to deal with.
Not what I hear about the Elise. I hear it's a great amazing car, but don't push it to the limit on the road. Well then, that's not what I'm looking for.
Looking for fun on the limit, not track times, so I though lighter weight on the back (NA not SC), and a LSD with relatively modest tyres might make things more playful.
Have any of you any experience?
I just don't use it for longer trips if I know I'm going to be stuck for 5 hours in the rain.
Obvious solution would seem to be adding an Elise to the garage for the mixed weather trips.
BUT what I love about the 7, is it's good nature on the limit. Push to hard and the front squeaks a bit. Boot full too early and the back steps out a bit. All easy to deal with.
Not what I hear about the Elise. I hear it's a great amazing car, but don't push it to the limit on the road. Well then, that's not what I'm looking for.
Looking for fun on the limit, not track times, so I though lighter weight on the back (NA not SC), and a LSD with relatively modest tyres might make things more playful.
Have any of you any experience?
An élise no matter the set-up will not do for you!
There is far too little rotational inertia in comparison to its grip levels.
I just doesnt want to swing out. It is not suited for being driven on the limit on the road whereas you can do this on a Caterham.
You can try low grip tires and LSD and parallel rear toe but again its fundamental dynamics do now favor drift mode and it has the tendency to always return back to its equilibrium point, unless you ask for a spin
]
There is far too little rotational inertia in comparison to its grip levels.
I just doesnt want to swing out. It is not suited for being driven on the limit on the road whereas you can do this on a Caterham.
You can try low grip tires and LSD and parallel rear toe but again its fundamental dynamics do now favor drift mode and it has the tendency to always return back to its equilibrium point, unless you ask for a spin
Edited by analog_me on Tuesday 1st February 21:39
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Edited by analog_me on Tuesday 1st February 21:42
I've had 2 Caterhams and an S1 Elise and also own a mid-engined Cayman.
The S1 was a fabulous car with wonderful handling, but it wasn't something that inspired me to explore the limits even though it was fitted with the better Bilstein S2 shocks. Being mid engined, I was always aware that lifting off the accelerator mid corner would cause a spin, so I only ever drove it at about 7/10ths or below, especially as it never felt very 'friendly' going more. The Caterham (as you know) isn't spiky like that, so can be driven in a totally different way (plus sitting over the back axle helps feel the car more than in the Elise where you're in the centre).
I know it's the biggest PH cliche going, but what about an MX-5? If you fit a BBR supercharger it should have the performance of a 7, but being front engined, it'll handle much more progressively on the limit.
The S1 was a fabulous car with wonderful handling, but it wasn't something that inspired me to explore the limits even though it was fitted with the better Bilstein S2 shocks. Being mid engined, I was always aware that lifting off the accelerator mid corner would cause a spin, so I only ever drove it at about 7/10ths or below, especially as it never felt very 'friendly' going more. The Caterham (as you know) isn't spiky like that, so can be driven in a totally different way (plus sitting over the back axle helps feel the car more than in the Elise where you're in the centre).
I know it's the biggest PH cliche going, but what about an MX-5? If you fit a BBR supercharger it should have the performance of a 7, but being front engined, it'll handle much more progressively on the limit.
Ever thought of a Ginetta G40?
Some were raced like this one
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/121560/g...
But others weren't, iirc one was on the classified ads for awhile. I thought it was a bargain and has since gone
Some were raced like this one
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/121560/g...
But others weren't, iirc one was on the classified ads for awhile. I thought it was a bargain and has since gone
Eric Mc said:
They are very rare - only about 40 built.
48. They are rare but you can usually find one or two that might be for sale. Except mine 
I wondered since they are effectively a SV chassis (actually the precursor to the SV) and they have a roof they might suit the OP.
I still wouldn't relish a long motorway journey mind, roof or no roof.
Caterham 21
- A beauty. I remember sitting in the polished Alu example at the NEC show soonish after launch. I guess the fixed side screens are more water proof. The hood?
MX 5
- Makes sense. Lotus went from 7, to Elan. Whenever I drive one they're fun. BUT somewhat lacking in the desire stakes. Does throw up the idea of a Chimaera, as also being front engine, rear where drive, and something with a sense of occasion.
Ginetta
- I love the top down when I get the chance, so a G40 wouldn't fit. An older G33 might, but I'm not sure they are so much more weather proof than a sorted 7.
- A beauty. I remember sitting in the polished Alu example at the NEC show soonish after launch. I guess the fixed side screens are more water proof. The hood?
MX 5
- Makes sense. Lotus went from 7, to Elan. Whenever I drive one they're fun. BUT somewhat lacking in the desire stakes. Does throw up the idea of a Chimaera, as also being front engine, rear where drive, and something with a sense of occasion.
Ginetta
- I love the top down when I get the chance, so a G40 wouldn't fit. An older G33 might, but I'm not sure they are so much more weather proof than a sorted 7.
Edited by James.Burton on Thursday 10th February 14:08
Edited by James.Burton on Thursday 10th February 14:11
James.Burton said:
Caterham 21
- A beauty. I remember sitting in the polished Alu example at the NEC show soonish after launch. I guess the fixed side screens are more water proof. The hood?
Roof is fine, quite waterproof. - A beauty. I remember sitting in the polished Alu example at the NEC show soonish after launch. I guess the fixed side screens are more water proof. The hood?
Some cars have eyeball vents on the dash which helpsas the windows are fixed (or removed completely) so sometimes ventilation is a bit of an issue.
I need a new roof as mine is the original and in places more hole than roof. There are none available from Caterham so I need to give the car to someone to have the roof copied. A zip out rear window would be a good idea too.
Good evening all.
This is also something of interest to myself. I've always wanted a elise but there on the limit handling seems to result in many cat n or cat s examples. I usually drive fairly spirited and recently drove my friends r400 caterham and was surprised at how quickly you gained confidence and could steer the car on the throttle etc,
Now I really like the elise but feel I would soon run out of talent whereas the 7 seems far more forgiving? Would other people's experience concour this?
This is also something of interest to myself. I've always wanted a elise but there on the limit handling seems to result in many cat n or cat s examples. I usually drive fairly spirited and recently drove my friends r400 caterham and was surprised at how quickly you gained confidence and could steer the car on the throttle etc,
Now I really like the elise but feel I would soon run out of talent whereas the 7 seems far more forgiving? Would other people's experience concour this?
IMO - lot of caterham experience, a little elise, and plenty of boxster (track and road), it's a layout thing. The caterham is extremely forgiving/easy to slide around, not saying you'll never loose it, but you've got to be a bit hamfisted or taking the p*ss. Mostly you'll oversteer on exits/on throttle, where the natural lift will help you.
I don't have that much elise experience to really know it, but it seemed very much like my old boxster.. which makes sense. Generally mid engine things - loads of exit traction, and IME a tendency to understeer more on power. Rare to get exit oversteer with the boxster, if it did that meant it was a bit of a surprise. More generally you'd get it rotating on entry, off throttle, which means getting back on power to settle it, which is more challenging, especially if you're not on track with miles of runoff. Also with the engine position, there's obviously more weight moving around back there, so more demanding.
None of which is an issue if you're not attempting to have it move around, but the question is/was 'limit'..
I don't have that much elise experience to really know it, but it seemed very much like my old boxster.. which makes sense. Generally mid engine things - loads of exit traction, and IME a tendency to understeer more on power. Rare to get exit oversteer with the boxster, if it did that meant it was a bit of a surprise. More generally you'd get it rotating on entry, off throttle, which means getting back on power to settle it, which is more challenging, especially if you're not on track with miles of runoff. Also with the engine position, there's obviously more weight moving around back there, so more demanding.
None of which is an issue if you're not attempting to have it move around, but the question is/was 'limit'..
AndrewGP said:
I've had 2 Caterhams and an S1 Elise and also own a mid-engined Cayman.
The S1 was a fabulous car with wonderful handling, but it wasn't something that inspired me to explore the limits even though it was fitted with the better Bilstein S2 shocks. Being mid engined, I was always aware that lifting off the accelerator mid corner would cause a spin, so I only ever drove it at about 7/10ths or below, especially as it never felt very 'friendly' going more. The Caterham (as you know) isn't spiky like that, so can be driven in a totally different way (plus sitting over the back axle helps feel the car more than in the Elise where you're in the centre).
I know it's the biggest PH cliche going, but what about an MX-5? If you fit a BBR supercharger it should have the performance of a 7, but being front engined, it'll handle much more progressively on the limit.
Very similar here. A Westfield, S1 Elise with Nitrons and a Cayman. The S1 was definitely the most challenging towards the limit. Superb car, but there is a reason you don’t see them doing sideways stuff on YouTube The S1 was a fabulous car with wonderful handling, but it wasn't something that inspired me to explore the limits even though it was fitted with the better Bilstein S2 shocks. Being mid engined, I was always aware that lifting off the accelerator mid corner would cause a spin, so I only ever drove it at about 7/10ths or below, especially as it never felt very 'friendly' going more. The Caterham (as you know) isn't spiky like that, so can be driven in a totally different way (plus sitting over the back axle helps feel the car more than in the Elise where you're in the centre).
I know it's the biggest PH cliche going, but what about an MX-5? If you fit a BBR supercharger it should have the performance of a 7, but being front engined, it'll handle much more progressively on the limit.
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