Purchase the right Caterham model
Discussion
Hi chaps
I have been thinking about getting a Caterham for about a year now and I keep going round and round in circles as to which one to get. This itch to have a Caterham is not going away! Originally I was going to get a 620R or one of the Superlights like the R500 or R400. That said I decided against these now because I want to experience the build part of it plus after watching many videos and reading loads of reviews people say the 310 or 360 is the best but this is very subjective of course. This would be a fun winter project assuming there is not a long wait for the kit to be delivered. So, this leaves me with probably the 360R or the new 660cc 170R. I want to stick to around a £30k max budget as well. This entry model is quite interesting partly because it's really cheap, light and also because I want to teach my son to drive in it (he is 13) so the lower power would be better.
But then I think would 84bhp bore me because I will take the Caterham on track mostly when it's wet with the full weather gear. I have an Ariel Atom 4 as well for track days and rare street driving but it never goes out in the wet.
The Caterham also would be better on the road than the Atom and just give a bit of variety on what to drive on any given day.
If anyone else has been in this position please share your decision process or any pointers I may not be considering.
Cheers
WR
I have been thinking about getting a Caterham for about a year now and I keep going round and round in circles as to which one to get. This itch to have a Caterham is not going away! Originally I was going to get a 620R or one of the Superlights like the R500 or R400. That said I decided against these now because I want to experience the build part of it plus after watching many videos and reading loads of reviews people say the 310 or 360 is the best but this is very subjective of course. This would be a fun winter project assuming there is not a long wait for the kit to be delivered. So, this leaves me with probably the 360R or the new 660cc 170R. I want to stick to around a £30k max budget as well. This entry model is quite interesting partly because it's really cheap, light and also because I want to teach my son to drive in it (he is 13) so the lower power would be better.
But then I think would 84bhp bore me because I will take the Caterham on track mostly when it's wet with the full weather gear. I have an Ariel Atom 4 as well for track days and rare street driving but it never goes out in the wet.
The Caterham also would be better on the road than the Atom and just give a bit of variety on what to drive on any given day.
If anyone else has been in this position please share your decision process or any pointers I may not be considering.
Cheers
WR
Dear WR, you are really confused and I'm not sure we can help. In the same breath, you have mentioned the highest and lowest powered Caterhams going and a desire to build a kit over the winter.
As that's going to be very hard, get on the phone to Caterham and see if they have anything new at all available for you to build in the next 6-12 months and buy it.
It'll be fabulous!
Bert
As that's going to be very hard, get on the phone to Caterham and see if they have anything new at all available for you to build in the next 6-12 months and buy it.
It'll be fabulous!
Bert
jimPH said:
Get one ready built. It doesn't matter, you'll have it in bits and rebuilt anyway, you just get more for your money 2nd hand.
I could get engine in and out on the road in one day by the time I sold it.
They should be sold with an engine crane.
The cars I have been looking at second hand seem to go for more than new price, at least the cars with next to no miles on them. I hear what you are saying and I will consider buying used, I just feel like I want to build it from bits brand new. I can then ppf it right before it gets built and make it my own with decals while it's in bits, add heat management etc. I am also quite fussy on the colour. Buying new also allows me to add finance should I choose to do this, not sure yet. What happened to the 310R? I could not see that on their website? Do people tend to add more power to these 310's or 360's? how easy is it to tune using a 3rd party?I could get engine in and out on the road in one day by the time I sold it.
They should be sold with an engine crane.
tx
BertBert said:
Dear WR, you are really confused and I'm not sure we can help. In the same breath, you have mentioned the highest and lowest powered Caterhams going and a desire to build a kit over the winter.
As that's going to be very hard, get on the phone to Caterham and see if they have anything new at all available for you to build in the next 6-12 months and buy it.
It'll be fabulous!
Bert
I am confused hence why I am asking the questions.As that's going to be very hard, get on the phone to Caterham and see if they have anything new at all available for you to build in the next 6-12 months and buy it.
It'll be fabulous!
Bert
wannabe-racer said:
The cars I have been looking at second hand seem to go for more than new price, at least the cars with next to no miles on them. I hear what you are saying and I will consider buying used, I just feel like I want to build it from bits brand new. I can then ppf it right before it gets built and make it my own with decals while it's in bits, add heat management etc. I am also quite fussy on the colour. Buying new also allows me to add finance should I choose to do this, not sure yet. What happened to the 310R? I could not see that on their website? Do people tend to add more power to these 310's or 360's? how easy is it to tune using a 3rd party?
tx
I'm afraid you've missed the boat on the 310R (or 270R) as they're no longer available to order.tx
It's 170 or 360/420/620. Quite the jump!
Waiting time for a kit to be delivered will be a stopper for this winter, the waiting list has always been long but with increased demand this year, I'm pretty sure it's up to about 9 months right now (hence used values are very strong).
I think the only way for you to answer the question of which one to get is go and test drive them. Start with one in the middle ie a 310 or 360 and go from there.
I think the only way for you to answer the question of which one to get is go and test drive them. Start with one in the middle ie a 310 or 360 and go from there.
AndrewGP said:
Waiting time for a kit to be delivered will be a stopper for this winter, the waiting list has always been long but with increased demand this year, I'm pretty sure it's up to about 9 months right now (hence used values are very strong).
I think the only way for you to answer the question of which one to get is go and test drive them. Start with one in the middle ie a 310 or 360 and go from there.
Thanks. For some stupid reason I had in my head ordering a Caterham is a short (timewise) affair but appreciate the lead times. Then this may scupper my plans, I may to look for a Caterham copy like GBS zero or Westfield etc.I think the only way for you to answer the question of which one to get is go and test drive them. Start with one in the middle ie a 310 or 360 and go from there.
How tuneable are Caterhams? are the ECU's easily mappable? or are they locked down.
I will for sure, go hire one from Caterham Silverstone and see how I get on ideally in terrible weather conditions as this is when I would use it most.
wannabe-racer said:
How tuneable are Caterhams? are the ECU's easily mappable? or are they locked down.
I think Caterham like to try to lock down the ECUs but I believe there are ways and means to get in to them, there certainly was on my first 1.8 K Series Caterham which had a ‘locked’ ECU. The map was crap, so I had it remapped by Troy at Northampton Motorsport with no issues and it was a joy to drive afterwards. That said, all 7s have NA engines, so tuning is expensive. To get any worthwhile gains out of all the different engine variants you need to change the cams and have an associated remap. For instance, I could get my 180bhp R300 Duratec up to a 210bhp R400 level with those two things but it’s over £2k to do it at any of the specialists. Add on the roller barrel throttle bodies for 220bhp (with the wonderful induction noise) and it’s up to £5k.
Hence why I think you’ve got to test drive the different cars and get the right power level from the outset. Anything else on the car is easy and relatively cheap to change though, so the rest of the spec is less critical.
wannabe-racer said:
I will for sure, go hire one from Caterham Silverstone and see how I get on ideally in terrible weather conditions as this is when I would use it most.
Righty ho. I think you'd be better off with the highest powered Caterham, as they are specifically designed for the worst weather possible.AndrewGP said:
I think Caterham like to try to lock down the ECUs but I believe there are ways and means to get in to them, there certainly was on my first 1.8 K Series Caterham which had a ‘locked’ ECU. The map was crap, so I had it remapped by Troy at Northampton Motorsport with no issues and it was a joy to drive afterwards.
That said, all 7s have NA engines, so tuning is expensive. To get any worthwhile gains out of all the different engine variants you need to change the cams and have an associated remap. For instance, I could get my 180bhp R300 Duratec up to a 210bhp R400 level with those two things but it’s over £2k to do it at any of the specialists. Add on the roller barrel throttle bodies for 220bhp (with the wonderful induction noise) and it’s up to £5k.
Hence why I think you’ve got to test drive the different cars and get the right power level from the outset. Anything else on the car is easy and relatively cheap to change though, so the rest of the spec is less critical.
Thanks Andrew this is very helpful. Good point on the tuning aspect so it probably makes sense from the outset to get the power I want as opposed to getting more from a less powered car.That said, all 7s have NA engines, so tuning is expensive. To get any worthwhile gains out of all the different engine variants you need to change the cams and have an associated remap. For instance, I could get my 180bhp R300 Duratec up to a 210bhp R400 level with those two things but it’s over £2k to do it at any of the specialists. Add on the roller barrel throttle bodies for 220bhp (with the wonderful induction noise) and it’s up to £5k.
Hence why I think you’ve got to test drive the different cars and get the right power level from the outset. Anything else on the car is easy and relatively cheap to change though, so the rest of the spec is less critical.
wannabe-racer said:
Thanks Andrew this is very helpful. Good point on the tuning aspect so it probably makes sense from the outset to get the power I want as opposed to getting more from a less powered car.
haha yes sliding around in a 620R would be fun on a wet road. As I want to build the car it will need to be a 420R or less. I wonder if it's common to stick a supercharger on the 2.0l lump that comes with the 420R, do you know if anyone has done this? if so what sort of cost to do it.wannabe-racer said:
haha yes sliding around in a 620R would be fun on a wet road. As I want to build the car it will need to be a 420R or less. I wonder if it's common to stick a supercharger on the 2.0l lump that comes with the 420R, do you know if anyone has done this? if so what sort of cost to do it.
You'll find very few who have added turbo or supercharges to lower spec Caterham's. Not because it can't be done, but because it is a bit of a 'swings and roundabouts' route to more power. The added weight (including intercooler, plumbing, etc) just takes the edge of the handling. It can mean an expensive suspension upgrade to get that back. That's to say nothing of the gearbox, prop and diff changes that are likely to be needed. The quickest cars I've come across are true to the Lotus mantra of adding lightness. Upgrading an NA engine is the best way and a 2.5L Duratec is lighter than the 2L - there's half a litre of metal missing, albeit a little taller. wannabe-racer said:
haha yes sliding around in a 620R would be fun on a wet road. As I want to build the car it will need to be a 420R or less. I wonder if it's common to stick a supercharger on the 2.0l lump that comes with the 420R, do you know if anyone has done this? if so what sort of cost to do it.
I think that there is a chap (Dave Gemzoe, maybe?) who has fitted a Ford 1.6 Ecoboost engine in a Caterham. Might be worth investigating?wannabe-racer said:
AndrewGP said:
Waiting time for a kit to be delivered will be a stopper for this winter, the waiting list has always been long but with increased demand this year, I'm pretty sure it's up to about 9 months right now (hence used values are very strong).
I think the only way for you to answer the question of which one to get is go and test drive them. Start with one in the middle ie a 310 or 360 and go from there.
Thanks. For some stupid reason I had in my head ordering a Caterham is a short (timewise) affair but appreciate the lead times. Then this may scupper my plans, I may to look for a Caterham copy like GBS zero or Westfield etc.I think the only way for you to answer the question of which one to get is go and test drive them. Start with one in the middle ie a 310 or 360 and go from there.
How tuneable are Caterhams? are the ECU's easily mappable? or are they locked down.
I will for sure, go hire one from Caterham Silverstone and see how I get on ideally in terrible weather conditions as this is when I would use it most.
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