Duratec oil usage question
Discussion
Hi All - newish Duratec owner here hoping you can share your experience.
I have a R400 6 speed Duratec and after a few track days it is apparent it is using a lot of oil. Around 1.5L on a track day (~300 miles)
I'm told the engine has been checked, is ok and that this oil usage is to be "expected" when using on track. I realise of course that performance engines can use some oil but to me this seems like a lot!
I'd appreciate any other R400 or 420R owners experiences to understand if this is actually normal usage?
I have a R400 6 speed Duratec and after a few track days it is apparent it is using a lot of oil. Around 1.5L on a track day (~300 miles)
I'm told the engine has been checked, is ok and that this oil usage is to be "expected" when using on track. I realise of course that performance engines can use some oil but to me this seems like a lot!
I'd appreciate any other R400 or 420R owners experiences to understand if this is actually normal usage?
BristolCat said:
ah yes, that would be useful information! 
It's dry sump and plenum
That's probably the worst combination for oil consumption (particularly if it is a right hand circuit you drive). Firstly, if it not done already, remove the side breather - either by capping off both ends or use the bespoke plate designed for that purpose. It's dry sump and plenum
Secondly, if you are getting oil in the catch tank, it is likely you are over filling - the correct level is just below the first baffle in the tank (if it is the triangular tank).
If that's all done you might expect around 1/2L used on a track day. Less on a well run-in car of 10,000 miles or more.
Interesting that is a bad combo. The engine has around 12k miles on it but I do not think it has seen track use until this year
The engine has passed compression and leak down tests, runs well and seems to have all the power expected compared to a 420. The breather is capped off, and there is zero oil in the catch tank. Also no sign of smoke either on the power or overrun, and no greasiness in the exhaust, oil spots in the exhaust fumes or any other kind of leak apparent - it just disappears!
0.5L I would have no problem with but three times that is making me nervous even though there is no apparent problem.
The engine has passed compression and leak down tests, runs well and seems to have all the power expected compared to a 420. The breather is capped off, and there is zero oil in the catch tank. Also no sign of smoke either on the power or overrun, and no greasiness in the exhaust, oil spots in the exhaust fumes or any other kind of leak apparent - it just disappears!
0.5L I would have no problem with but three times that is making me nervous even though there is no apparent problem.
The other 'newbie' type problem to the car is that you check the oil at the wrong time. It drains quite quickly back to the sump when stopped so check as soon as you can after it's been driven (hard) and with the engine still running.
But if that's not the issue then I suspect there's a problem and the CAT is doing a good job of cleaning up the smoke. If that's the case it won't last that long and you'll start to see smoke once it disintegrates.
But if that's not the issue then I suspect there's a problem and the CAT is doing a good job of cleaning up the smoke. If that's the case it won't last that long and you'll start to see smoke once it disintegrates.
Yep, I have been thoroughly trained in the checking process going back and forth with Caterham to prove it really is using that much oil, so it's not that (I wish it was !)
I'm concerned about the CAT too. Don't think there is anything I can do than wait for it to fail though at the moment.
I'm concerned about the CAT too. Don't think there is anything I can do than wait for it to fail though at the moment.
My R500 duratec was using a similar amount of oil on track at around similar milage. I had both Compression and leak down tests and it passed with flying colours. Then out of nowhere it dropped a valve doing 40mph on a sedate drive. Engine rebuild was very very costly. I may have been bitten but I would either sell on or get a rebuild completed asap as its a fraction of the cost done preventatively.
The valve springs on the early R500 where known to be substandard and there were failures on a regular basis. It depends on who you listen to, but they were probably poorly manufactured rather than wrongly spec'd. Later a higher quality spring was fitted and over the years the problem has been better understood and is seldom seen now. The R400 used a different spring and didn't suffer from this problem.
Amris said:
Wasn't actually a valve spring for reference. The valve head broke off from the stem.
Same thing. A valve only breaks in the way you have described due to fatigue, and that's caused through it being bent. Bent valves happen because the valve spring has lost control (valve float) resulting in piston contact. It could be through having been over revved, or by a weak spring. The key thing to note is that failure is often significantly later than the event that caused it.Edited by DCL on Thursday 2nd September 20:17
Interesting thanks, the company that rebuilt the engine mentioned the original valves where not build in one cast and effectively the stem and head are stuck together creating a point of weakness.
To the original poster though, maybe I just got unlucky but I ignored the oil usage as everybody told me not to worry as it was passing every test applied. An engine refresh is half cost of a rebuild after failure (mainly due to parts as you might new a new head, pistons etc). As a result I will be taking the more causes route from now on :-)
To the original poster though, maybe I just got unlucky but I ignored the oil usage as everybody told me not to worry as it was passing every test applied. An engine refresh is half cost of a rebuild after failure (mainly due to parts as you might new a new head, pistons etc). As a result I will be taking the more causes route from now on :-)
OP - I had exactly the same car and setup. Mine used lots of oil but only on a trackday. Road use only and it didn't use a drop but get on track and start bouncing off the limiter and revving the thing out , the usage substantially increased. I was putting half to a full litre in at lunchtime.
I was not that bothered about slightly overfilling it as the extra just goes into the catch tank.HTH
None of this came as a surprise as Dominic who sold me the car from Crawley stated this was the norm. Car never missed a beat.
I was not that bothered about slightly overfilling it as the extra just goes into the catch tank.HTH
None of this came as a surprise as Dominic who sold me the car from Crawley stated this was the norm. Car never missed a beat.
Amris said:
My R500 duratec was using a similar amount of oil on track at around similar milage. I had both Compression and leak down tests and it passed with flying colours. Then out of nowhere it dropped a valve doing 40mph on a sedate drive. Engine rebuild was very very costly. I may have been bitten but I would either sell on or get a rebuild completed asap as its a fraction of the cost done preventatively.
It's not obvious that the two would be related though.Far Cough said:
OP - I had exactly the same car and setup. Mine used lots of oil but only on a trackday. Road use only and it didn't use a drop but get on track and start bouncing off the limiter and revving the thing out , the usage substantially increased. I was putting half to a full litre in at lunchtime.
I was not that bothered about slightly overfilling it as the extra just goes into the catch tank.HTH
None of this came as a surprise as Dominic who sold me the car from Crawley stated this was the norm. Car never missed a beat.
Ok, that is very useful to know. Thanks! I was not that bothered about slightly overfilling it as the extra just goes into the catch tank.HTH
None of this came as a surprise as Dominic who sold me the car from Crawley stated this was the norm. Car never missed a beat.
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