Searching for R400/R500/SLR - differences?

[Edmundo2]

Hi. I'm now searching for an R400/R500/SLR. I'll consider K or Duratec but my budget, ( up to around £27k ish ), means it's more likely to be K series..

The question I have is , what are the differences? I can see R400to R500 means a bit more power, a bit more highly strung etc and poss bring more by way of fragility/refresh requirement, ( some conflicting opinions out there on this )..

What I'm less clear about is how the SLR compares to R400/R500 k?

Any advice appreciated..

Thanks,

Ed

PS. If you have search a car that might be for sale please get in touch

[ForzaGilles]

The SLR and R400 engine is the same other than the throttle bodies - the R400 uses the roller barrel throttle bodies, the SLR uses KV6 throttle bodies. The SLR is 190bhp, the R400 is 200bhp. Dry sump optional on the SLR, standard on the R400.

The R500 has an all steel bottom end, different cams and modified head to make 230bhp.

[Edmundo2]

ForzaGilles said:

The SLR and R400 engine is the same other than the throttle bodies - the R400 uses the roller barrel throttle bodies, the SLR uses KV6 throttle bodies. The SLR is 190bhp, the R400 is 200bhp. Dry sump optional on the SLR, standard on the R400.

The R500 has an all steel bottom end, different cams and modified head to make 230bhp.

Great. Thanks for the simple explanation. Helps me understand where they started out at least..

[Orange Blackbird]

The R500k was a very special car. Not only was the engine upgraded by Minister as mentioned in a previous post but the bell housing was magnesium and the wishbones were aero profile. If you decide on a R500k it will be worth getting the low down on what maintenance has been done on the engine as they are not cheap to look after. I believe Dave Andrews (DVA) has done great things over the past 15 years to improve power at lower rev limits to improve reliability.

[BertBert]

Do I recall correctly that there was a "superlight chassis" for the r500s that were specced as aeroscreen only? Lighter by not having the wiper motor bracket or some such?

A bit of a marketing thing I think and didn't last long as the weight saving was tiny.

Mind you I could have dreamt all that, it was 20 years ago when I got mine.

Bert

[ForzaGilles]

Orange Blackbird said:

The R500k was a very special car. Not only was the engine upgraded by Minister as mentioned in a previous post but the bell housing was magnesium and the wishbones were aero profile. If you decide on a R500k it will be worth getting the low down on what maintenance has been done on the engine as they are not cheap to look after. I believe Dave Andrews (DVA) has done great things over the past 15 years to improve power at lower rev limits to improve reliability.

Yes, some nice bits on the R500 - Mag wheels too

[Edmundo2]

Yes R500 K spec does look terrific and I'd poss consider one if something cropped up that fitted but on the whole they're prob a bit more highly strung than I need and generally a bit too expensive. I've seen x3 of late at £24k £28k and £34k. Quite a range of prices so assume mileage/condition is the influencing factor rather than spec, ( which I guess would be fairly consistent if close to original ).

I think ideally R400k at low to mid twenties is preferred option.

Re R spec K cars, were they all factory built? My understanding is todays 620R is factory only but not sure if same applied when K's were new, ( ie was R500 factory only but the rest available as kit )?

Not sure it makes a big difference as they get older and rebuilt but would be good to know..

Ed

Edited by Edmundo2 on Tuesday 25th May 21:08

[Matt W]

I think the only models that are/were factory build only are the 620R and Duratec R500.

I'm pretty sure all K Series cars were available as full kits.

[BertBert]

I built my kR500 from a kit. I'd not really give it a thought looking at used caterhams whether they were factory built versus home built. They are almost impossible to build incorrectly (famous last words) especially after PBC.

Current condition is much more important, especially with the relatively highly strung R500 K engine or actually all k-series Don't get me wrong, I love the k, but you need a good one!

[blackmamba]

How about this? Some miles etc but as said above, buy on condition. Seems well priced.

https://www.ptsportscars.com/car/2003-caterham-r40...

[BertBert]

blackmamba said:

How about this? Some miles etc but as said above, buy on condition. Seems well priced.

https://www.ptsportscars.com/car/2003-caterham-r40...

Certainly looks interesting, but I can't get my head around used car prices. £25k, nearly 20 years old and 30k miles. Not sure it seems well priced to me
The R500 at 17k miles on CC sold for £25k, private sale so maybe it's not far off.

[Edmundo2]

BertBert said:

blackmamba said:

How about this? Some miles etc but as said above, buy on condition. Seems well priced.

https://www.ptsportscars.com/car/2003-caterham-r40...

Certainly looks interesting, but I can't get my head around used car prices. £25k, nearly 20 years old and 30k miles. Not sure it seems well priced to me
The R500 at 17k miles on CC sold for £25k, private sale so maybe it's not far off.

Hi. Yes I had seen that and agree. Price would seem fair if it was really good but it somehow looks a bit worn/leggy to me for that money..? It may not be and its hard to say from photos but PT's R300, ( with upgrade to R400 spec ), is listed as being "stunning" and yet if you zoom the photos the engine bay looks pretty grubby, theres lots of rust on the steering arms and the nose cone is cracked etc...All fixable but clearly my definition of "stunning" and theirs are two different things which doesn't instill confidence in me when looking at their other stock.. I'm not suggesting the cars are bad and PT might be great and would put all this right at sale but I'm not encouraged to make the journey tbh..

I'm not saying I want a trailer queen but I want something that's been loved and well maintained for my budget, ( which I think is realistic especially if buying from an enthusiast but without dealer premium or warranty etc..).

Edited by Edmundo2 on Wednesday 26th May 17:24

[blackmamba]

BertBert said:

blackmamba said:

How about this? Some miles etc but as said above, buy on condition. Seems well priced.

https://www.ptsportscars.com/car/2003-caterham-r40...

Certainly looks interesting, but I can't get my head around used car prices. £25k, nearly 20 years old and 30k miles. Not sure it seems well priced to me
The R500 at 17k miles on CC sold for £25k, private sale so maybe it's not far off.

Maybe you haven't seen used car prices lately or heard that Caterhams hold their value well ( - : I agree with you but the market is what it is, no getting away from that. Look at the price of old 911s!!

[blackmamba]

Edmundo2 said:

Hi. Yes I had seen that and agree. Price would seem fair if it was really good but it somehow looks a bit worn/leggy to me for that money..? It may not be and its hard to say from photos but PT's R300, ( with upgrade to R400 spec ), is listed as being "stunning" and yet if you zoom the photos the engine bay looks pretty grubby, theres lots of rust on the steering arms and the nose cone is cracked etc...All fixable but clearly my definition of "stunning" and theirs are two different things which doesn't instill confidence in me when looking at their other stock.. I'm not suggesting the cars are bad and PT might be great and would put all this right at sale but I'm not encouraged to make the journey tbh..

I'm not saying I want a trailer queen but I want something that's been loved and well maintained for my budget, ( which I think is realistic especially if buying from an enthusiast but without dealer premium or warranty etc..).

IIRC, the story behind the R300 (to R400 spec) was that it was a customer car with an engine issue and they were going to do an engine rebuild at an agreed price. I remember looking at the car and coming to the same conclusion as you. Unfortunately, I think until you have had a discussion and seen a car, it's hard to tell what the car is like.

I thought the R500 on CC looked hard used and very rough although it did have some money spent on it recently.

Edited by Edmundo2 on Wednesday 26th May 17:24

[BertBert]

blackmamba said:

Maybe you haven't seen used car prices lately or heard that Caterhams hold their value well ( - : I agree with you but the market is what it is, no getting away from that. Look at the price of old 911s!!

I certainly agree, but doesn't make it easy for me to compute!

[gixermark]

have a superlight with 250HP K series if you are thinking more towards competition rather than garage queen ?

no contact details on your profile but ping me if you want and i can send specifics... woudl be a chunk less than your budget, and better spec than an R500.

[BertBert]

gixermark said:

have a superlight with 250HP K series if you are thinking more towards competition rather than garage queen ?

no contact details on your profile but ping me if you want and i can send specifics... woudl be a chunk less than your budget, and better spec than an R500.

And a very well known car - in a good way!!

[Edmundo2]

gixermark said:

have a superlight with 250HP K series if you are thinking more towards competition rather than garage queen ?

no contact details on your profile but ping me if you want and i can send specifics... woudl be a chunk less than your budget, and better spec than an R500.

Hi Mark. Thanks for the heads up..I've seen your car and think it is indeed too track biased. Thanks anyway and will take a look at my profile to see why contact details have disappeared?

Cheers

[Edmundo2]

Edmundo2 said:

gixermark said:

have a superlight with 250HP K series if you are thinking more towards competition rather than garage queen ?

no contact details on your profile but ping me if you want and i can send specifics... woudl be a chunk less than your budget, and better spec than an R500.

Hi Mark. Thanks for the heads up..I've seen your car and think it is indeed too track biased. Thanks anyway and will take a look at my profile to see why contact details have disappeared?

Cheers

Profile now updated so can now be contacted again. Thanks

[Edmundo2]

Having now experienced a few cars I've come to the conclusion that a 200bhp + Duratec car on RBTB, ( prob with a noisey exhaust), might actually be my best option. Prob never quite as exciting as a sweetly tuned K, ( which I love ), but a close second but with the benefit of the torque, reliability and potentially more relaxed nature when not on it.. ...Looks like I need to up the budget to £30k but seems to make sense. Not much around but think prob limited to R400D but if anyone knows of anything please get in touch..