Duratec 2.0 advice/help!
Discussion
Hi all,
Excuse my inexperience here, but I am in need of some help. I imported a C400 to Australia from the UK, and I have been let down badly by the sellers (A well known UK race team). Having got the car here and had it assessed by a local engine builder, it needs a full rebuild.
When the engine shop took the oil filter off and inspected it, look what was found!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3rw4tde6p0vq3b/IMG_0708...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ysv3azx7iahldq3/IMG_0710...
This all came from the scavenge pump:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sis4atrkxt11fyv/33333.pn...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8cdrcrve0zbpdno/22222.jp...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2avlu63mecngj0/20210304...
We stripped the engine down and found various other issues:
1. Rust on exhaust valves
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g6ra06su16nuv3g/20210302...
2. Moisture in bores
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b61f76pd22qnsov/666666.j...
3. Conrod bolts not correctly tensioned (Only had around .002” stretch)
4. Crank shaft end float excessive – 0.014”
5. Piston to bore clearance excessive – 0.0055”
The cylinder head has been pressure tested, it is OK. How the water got it we do not know.
My questions are related to getting this car back on track:
1. The pistons are already 88mm. What is the best way forward here? The engine shop are talking about boring the cylinder and getting pistons made, or getting a new block, however they are not working on Duratecs regularly here in Australia. New custom pistons seems very complicated. Could we hone the block and use the existing pistons? The UK race team who sold this to me said there was no excessive clearance when it left the UK, the bores don’t grow at sea so what is everyone’s thoughts on those clearances of 0.0055”? Could it just be honed (Depending upon the condition), or are those clearances too large already? Should I look at a new block, and get it bored to fit the existing pistons? If so, any recommendations on suppliers? I have seen Raceline advertise them.
2. The Caterham dry sump fitted seems from what I have read to have had issues and is no longer in regular supply. It seems you cannot get the scavenge pump in isolation, and have to get the kit, and the new pump that comes with it is oil and scavenge pump? Anyone know if you can get just the old scavenge pump? Part number is YR0232/03. I cant find it anywhere. If not, I will just get the Raceline kit and be done with it
The cylinder head will be cleaned up, the valves too and a rebuild will be done, I just need to get over this hump with the dry sump/pump and the block/pistons.
Any recommendations on suppliers too would be good. I have reached out to SBD and got pricing for bearings etc, and will speak to Raceline on the dry sump kit.
Thanks all!
Excuse my inexperience here, but I am in need of some help. I imported a C400 to Australia from the UK, and I have been let down badly by the sellers (A well known UK race team). Having got the car here and had it assessed by a local engine builder, it needs a full rebuild.
When the engine shop took the oil filter off and inspected it, look what was found!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w3rw4tde6p0vq3b/IMG_0708...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ysv3azx7iahldq3/IMG_0710...
This all came from the scavenge pump:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/sis4atrkxt11fyv/33333.pn...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8cdrcrve0zbpdno/22222.jp...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/c2avlu63mecngj0/20210304...
We stripped the engine down and found various other issues:
1. Rust on exhaust valves
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g6ra06su16nuv3g/20210302...
2. Moisture in bores
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b61f76pd22qnsov/666666.j...
3. Conrod bolts not correctly tensioned (Only had around .002” stretch)
4. Crank shaft end float excessive – 0.014”
5. Piston to bore clearance excessive – 0.0055”
The cylinder head has been pressure tested, it is OK. How the water got it we do not know.
My questions are related to getting this car back on track:
1. The pistons are already 88mm. What is the best way forward here? The engine shop are talking about boring the cylinder and getting pistons made, or getting a new block, however they are not working on Duratecs regularly here in Australia. New custom pistons seems very complicated. Could we hone the block and use the existing pistons? The UK race team who sold this to me said there was no excessive clearance when it left the UK, the bores don’t grow at sea so what is everyone’s thoughts on those clearances of 0.0055”? Could it just be honed (Depending upon the condition), or are those clearances too large already? Should I look at a new block, and get it bored to fit the existing pistons? If so, any recommendations on suppliers? I have seen Raceline advertise them.
2. The Caterham dry sump fitted seems from what I have read to have had issues and is no longer in regular supply. It seems you cannot get the scavenge pump in isolation, and have to get the kit, and the new pump that comes with it is oil and scavenge pump? Anyone know if you can get just the old scavenge pump? Part number is YR0232/03. I cant find it anywhere. If not, I will just get the Raceline kit and be done with it
The cylinder head will be cleaned up, the valves too and a rebuild will be done, I just need to get over this hump with the dry sump/pump and the block/pistons.
Any recommendations on suppliers too would be good. I have reached out to SBD and got pricing for bearings etc, and will speak to Raceline on the dry sump kit.
Thanks all!
Firstly the water - it is most likely got there by the car sitting in the rain for an extended period and not run afterwards to dry it out. The C400 filter can act as a funnel and the car needs to be stored in the dry when the engine is hot.
IMHO it sound like an 'end of life' race engine and not worth the time and effort to put right - sorry! Most of that debris looks like it's from scanavange pump but worth checking the cam shafts and their bearing carefully. C400's are very old cars now and as race cars this is probably typical of what you might expect. I would be looking to source a new crate engine, or a good road car engine. Depending on what you intend to do, the scavenge pump may do another turn, but generally they are out dated and most people use the Raceline unit now (which gives better ground clearance). [Edit: Looks like it's an external oil pump so those comments are maybe not totally correct]. If you want some fun, I'd look at a 2.5L - in standard form it will give you more BHP and torque than the original engine.
PS on the clearances, if they are Cosworth, or Omega, pistons then it likely that they will have a much larger clearance than a standard OEM piston. What make are they? Personally, a re-bored engine is something I would avoid.
http://duratecindetail.com/
IMHO it sound like an 'end of life' race engine and not worth the time and effort to put right - sorry! Most of that debris looks like it's from scanavange pump but worth checking the cam shafts and their bearing carefully. C400's are very old cars now and as race cars this is probably typical of what you might expect. I would be looking to source a new crate engine, or a good road car engine. Depending on what you intend to do, the scavenge pump may do another turn, but generally they are out dated and most people use the Raceline unit now (which gives better ground clearance). [Edit: Looks like it's an external oil pump so those comments are maybe not totally correct]. If you want some fun, I'd look at a 2.5L - in standard form it will give you more BHP and torque than the original engine.
PS on the clearances, if they are Cosworth, or Omega, pistons then it likely that they will have a much larger clearance than a standard OEM piston. What make are they? Personally, a re-bored engine is something I would avoid.
http://duratecindetail.com/
Edited by DCL on Thursday 29th April 09:50
OK, that makes this a non Caterham (Cosworth) engine rebuild. Omega in particular use very large clearances (and usually burns oil too) that is normal. But it is worth looking at bore size as they may be machined out of tolerance. The liners on the Duratec are cast in situ and very thin, so boring them out any further is asking for trouble. As said, it is not something I would do by choice.
Not sure who makes the scavenge pumps for the Duratec cars but Titan made them for the K series ones.
They can do a refurbishment if you send them the pump. I've seen a lot worse sent in and come back all sorted for relatively little cost with any worn or damaged parts replaced. I appreciate you are on the other side but might be worth a call or email enquiry?
Nick
They can do a refurbishment if you send them the pump. I've seen a lot worse sent in and come back all sorted for relatively little cost with any worn or damaged parts replaced. I appreciate you are on the other side but might be worth a call or email enquiry?
Nick
Thanks Nick, I will look into that. At this point, we might just replace the dry sump kit as when the previous failure happened there is a bit of damage to the other components anyway. It does not affect performance of the engine, but I would like to try to get it back to as near perfect as I can 
Yep, that was the advice to replace the cooler and lines. Last time it was not replaced, and we believe the source of the debris that entered the pump.
No, the supplier has washed his hands of it from a commercial perspective, labelled it a "trade sale" (As it was sold to the people that ran my old race team who are no longer around, they were effectively brokers). Lessons learned along the way, and appreciate people taking the time to respond to help me get it back on track, which we will!
No, the supplier has washed his hands of it from a commercial perspective, labelled it a "trade sale" (As it was sold to the people that ran my old race team who are no longer around, they were effectively brokers). Lessons learned along the way, and appreciate people taking the time to respond to help me get it back on track, which we will!
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