Cayman to Caterham
Discussion
Hi All.
I'm looking to sell my Cayman and get into a Caterham so thought it's worth posting this on here.
I have fond memories of being driven as a kid in my dads Westfield, (ahem), and uncles 7 supersprint and have always hankered for a 7 ever since..I've owned a couple of TVR's, an Elise S1, MX5 turbo etc in the past and have enjoyed hillclimbing and sprinting a single seater for the last 10 years also. Early last year the racer was sold and I returned to a fast road car in the form of a modified Porsche Cayman.
I had toyed with going the 7 route but decided a quick Cayman could deliver a lot of driver involvement but with extra useability that would allow me to use it more often and for longer journeys etc..as well as the Sunday morning blasts and occasional track day..
I've now developed the car into a really nice thing however I'm starting to miss being on track and wondering whether my pursuit of an all rounder was the right one in that whilst the Cayman is exactly that I have a company car as a daily therefore should I not just use that for the trips to Goodwood etc and leave my weekend toy to be a pure driving machine with no requirement of practicality..?
Has anyone else been here before and can confirm I'm doing the right thing ? Has anyone done the same only to find they really miss the useability of a more practical but still racey car and could pass up the extra buzz the 7 brings?
I suspect the 7 will be used 70% as a weekend blatter with the rest of the time on track. On this basis I'm starting to think that 200bhp Duratec would be a sweet spot due to torque/tractability but my likely budget is prob max £24 - £27k ish so I guess they are possibly out of reach and something Superlight/R400 ish is more within reach..? I found with my Elise that it was just not that nice to pootle about in and only ever really made sense when being rung out..Is a VHPD 7 likely to be the same ?
Thanks and hopefully I'll get to know some of you in due course..
Ed
I'm looking to sell my Cayman and get into a Caterham so thought it's worth posting this on here.
I have fond memories of being driven as a kid in my dads Westfield, (ahem), and uncles 7 supersprint and have always hankered for a 7 ever since..I've owned a couple of TVR's, an Elise S1, MX5 turbo etc in the past and have enjoyed hillclimbing and sprinting a single seater for the last 10 years also. Early last year the racer was sold and I returned to a fast road car in the form of a modified Porsche Cayman.
I had toyed with going the 7 route but decided a quick Cayman could deliver a lot of driver involvement but with extra useability that would allow me to use it more often and for longer journeys etc..as well as the Sunday morning blasts and occasional track day..
I've now developed the car into a really nice thing however I'm starting to miss being on track and wondering whether my pursuit of an all rounder was the right one in that whilst the Cayman is exactly that I have a company car as a daily therefore should I not just use that for the trips to Goodwood etc and leave my weekend toy to be a pure driving machine with no requirement of practicality..?
Has anyone else been here before and can confirm I'm doing the right thing ? Has anyone done the same only to find they really miss the useability of a more practical but still racey car and could pass up the extra buzz the 7 brings?
I suspect the 7 will be used 70% as a weekend blatter with the rest of the time on track. On this basis I'm starting to think that 200bhp Duratec would be a sweet spot due to torque/tractability but my likely budget is prob max £24 - £27k ish so I guess they are possibly out of reach and something Superlight/R400 ish is more within reach..? I found with my Elise that it was just not that nice to pootle about in and only ever really made sense when being rung out..Is a VHPD 7 likely to be the same ?
Thanks and hopefully I'll get to know some of you in due course..
Ed
Edited by Edmundo2 on Wednesday 28th April 20:17
Moderator edit. No advertising please
Had a k series Caterham. 6 speed, built engine on throttle bodies. Was okay pootling around, no driveline snatch and you could make reasonably smooth progress. I never used it much on the road, just wasn’t practical and had little desire to go places in it.
On track it was great, I won’t say anymore as it’s all been written before. I used to trailer it to track, wouldn’t have wanted to drive there.
I found the k series very reliable and made good power, 185 as a 1600 and subsequently 215 bhp as a 1800. I raced the 1800 and it would lap as quickly as the duratec cars if I tucked in behind them on the straights. You shouldn’t be disappointed in the performance.
Recently noticed they’ve changed the 2A class to 1800 in some championships if you fancy doing some speed events again.
On track it was great, I won’t say anymore as it’s all been written before. I used to trailer it to track, wouldn’t have wanted to drive there.
I found the k series very reliable and made good power, 185 as a 1600 and subsequently 215 bhp as a 1800. I raced the 1800 and it would lap as quickly as the duratec cars if I tucked in behind them on the straights. You shouldn’t be disappointed in the performance.
Recently noticed they’ve changed the 2A class to 1800 in some championships if you fancy doing some speed events again.
Ah Robbie...Good to hear from you..I got a shock then when I clicked your name and saw my old race car on your Avatar..!
Looks to be going well, ( wish I'd had chance to drive it with the new set up ), and knew you'd be quick in it..
Thanks for the heads up on class structure. Not sure yet whether I'll get back to competitive stuff but merely some track days..If I did run against the clock then would try to stick to roadgoing class as it's a slippery slope back to the full kitchen sink otherwise..
I may end up in a K as much due to budget as anything else and I do love them at full chat..Other option is a Supersport D I guess but could find I want a bit more fairly quickly and then end up spending the difference at a later date to upgrade, ( and would be better off with a R400D in the first place )
Looks to be going well, ( wish I'd had chance to drive it with the new set up ), and knew you'd be quick in it..
Thanks for the heads up on class structure. Not sure yet whether I'll get back to competitive stuff but merely some track days..If I did run against the clock then would try to stick to roadgoing class as it's a slippery slope back to the full kitchen sink otherwise..
I may end up in a K as much due to budget as anything else and I do love them at full chat..Other option is a Supersport D I guess but could find I want a bit more fairly quickly and then end up spending the difference at a later date to upgrade, ( and would be better off with a R400D in the first place )
Edited by Edmundo2 on Wednesday 28th April 22:08
How far do you have to drive to get to good roads? And how far to your preferred tracks?
I live in London, so I have to drive for 40-50 mins to get to fun roads. It means that I like a roof, heater and earplugs to drive my 7 for long distances - it's comfortable and doesn't damage your ears (I won't say it's quiet
) and it means you don't always have to be buffeted every time you drive the car*.
I expect you appreciate how much nicer lightweights feel on track, so the weight of the Cayman might not feel worth it unless you're doing big mileage to get to track days, or using as your only car.
I have a GT3 and it's epic for long fast trips to track days and home again. But it's heavy. My - modest - caterham's braking distances are around half the GT3's. Both cars are incredible (to me) on track, but ultimately I prefer the lightweight option.
(* for example drive down to the good roads with the roof on; take it off, enjoy the roads and tolerate the wind/buffeting for the drive home)
I live in London, so I have to drive for 40-50 mins to get to fun roads. It means that I like a roof, heater and earplugs to drive my 7 for long distances - it's comfortable and doesn't damage your ears (I won't say it's quiet
) and it means you don't always have to be buffeted every time you drive the car*.I expect you appreciate how much nicer lightweights feel on track, so the weight of the Cayman might not feel worth it unless you're doing big mileage to get to track days, or using as your only car.
I have a GT3 and it's epic for long fast trips to track days and home again. But it's heavy. My - modest - caterham's braking distances are around half the GT3's. Both cars are incredible (to me) on track, but ultimately I prefer the lightweight option.
(* for example drive down to the good roads with the roof on; take it off, enjoy the roads and tolerate the wind/buffeting for the drive home)
Hi.
I'm in Yorkshire with good driving roads from the end of the street so no probs on that front..I've got Harewood Hillclimb 15 mins away and then Blyton/Cadwell/Croft/Oulton Park/Donington all within 2 hours drive. The journey is not ideal but if it means I dont need the faff of a trailer then great..
Ref the lightness yes I think that's what I'm after. My hillclimb single seater was about 285kg and whilst the Cayman is not a heavyweight as such I do think I want something a bit more chuckable and responsive..
I'm in Yorkshire with good driving roads from the end of the street so no probs on that front..I've got Harewood Hillclimb 15 mins away and then Blyton/Cadwell/Croft/Oulton Park/Donington all within 2 hours drive. The journey is not ideal but if it means I dont need the faff of a trailer then great..
Ref the lightness yes I think that's what I'm after. My hillclimb single seater was about 285kg and whilst the Cayman is not a heavyweight as such I do think I want something a bit more chuckable and responsive..
braddo said:
How far do you have to drive to get to good roads? And how far to your preferred tracks?
I live in London, so I have to drive for 40-50 mins to get to fun roads. It means that I like a roof, heater and earplugs to drive my 7 for long distances - it's comfortable and doesn't damage your ears (I won't say it's quiet ) and it means you don't always have to be buffeted every time you drive the car*.
I expect you appreciate how much nicer lightweights feel on track, so the weight of the Cayman might not feel worth it unless you're doing big mileage to get to track days, or using as your only car.
I have a GT3 and it's epic for long fast trips to track days and home again. But it's heavy. My - modest - caterham's braking distances are around half the GT3's. Both cars are incredible (to me) on track, but ultimately I prefer the lightweight option.
(* for example drive down to the good roads with the roof on; take it off, enjoy the roads and tolerate the wind/buffeting for the drive home)
I live in London, so I have to drive for 40-50 mins to get to fun roads. It means that I like a roof, heater and earplugs to drive my 7 for long distances - it's comfortable and doesn't damage your ears (I won't say it's quiet
) and it means you don't always have to be buffeted every time you drive the car*.I expect you appreciate how much nicer lightweights feel on track, so the weight of the Cayman might not feel worth it unless you're doing big mileage to get to track days, or using as your only car.
I have a GT3 and it's epic for long fast trips to track days and home again. But it's heavy. My - modest - caterham's braking distances are around half the GT3's. Both cars are incredible (to me) on track, but ultimately I prefer the lightweight option.
(* for example drive down to the good roads with the roof on; take it off, enjoy the roads and tolerate the wind/buffeting for the drive home)
Ed, similar but slightly different situation here in that I own a both 987.2 Cayman and a Caterham. I use my Cayman as my daily driver and the Caterham for blatting about on the road and doing track days.
As you know they're totally different cars and are a world apart in they way they drive, so aside from the fact they are both 2 seat sports cars, they can't really be compared. The Cayman is quite involving but doesn't offer the feedback and sensory overload that the Caterham does. In addition, where the Cayman is quite practical with the 2 boots and a roof, the 7 is totally impractical (almost to the point of being annoying sometimes!). That said, from what you've written on how you'd use it (which is similar to me) then I think you're making the right decision.
My advice is hire one for a weekend. That way you can really see if it would fit in to your life and I think if you end up buying one from Caterham Cars, you get the hire fee back.
On the engine choice, I used to have a 160bhp K-Series Caterham and now have a 180bhp Duratec powered R300 Superlight. The K Series needed to be revved, under 4.5krpm there wasn't anything there, but from 5k to 7k it was great with loads of character. The Duratec is much more torquey and although it still likes to be revved, lacks a bit of the drama of the K Series had. Again, I'd drive both to see what you think.
Finally, could you not get rid of the company car and keep the Cayman as your daily and buy the Caterham anyway? I'm not swapping my two anytime soon as I think I've finally found the ultimate 2 car garage
As you know they're totally different cars and are a world apart in they way they drive, so aside from the fact they are both 2 seat sports cars, they can't really be compared. The Cayman is quite involving but doesn't offer the feedback and sensory overload that the Caterham does. In addition, where the Cayman is quite practical with the 2 boots and a roof, the 7 is totally impractical (almost to the point of being annoying sometimes!). That said, from what you've written on how you'd use it (which is similar to me) then I think you're making the right decision.
My advice is hire one for a weekend. That way you can really see if it would fit in to your life and I think if you end up buying one from Caterham Cars, you get the hire fee back.
On the engine choice, I used to have a 160bhp K-Series Caterham and now have a 180bhp Duratec powered R300 Superlight. The K Series needed to be revved, under 4.5krpm there wasn't anything there, but from 5k to 7k it was great with loads of character. The Duratec is much more torquey and although it still likes to be revved, lacks a bit of the drama of the K Series had. Again, I'd drive both to see what you think.
Finally, could you not get rid of the company car and keep the Cayman as your daily and buy the Caterham anyway? I'm not swapping my two anytime soon as I think I've finally found the ultimate 2 car garage
Thanks for the info..
I've driven a couple of lower powered cars before. My gut instinct is I want between 180 - 220 bhp area and hear what your saying ref engine choice...Initially i thought K series but more recently have been thinking Duratech might be nice as it'll spend more time on the road vs the track and i fancy the torque I think..My old Elise was only really any good when it was screaming which is fine when you want that but a bit crap the rest of the time..However my budget is likely max £27/£28k ish so only just scraping into R400D money which is what I think I want but very few around and when there is there often v.low miles or newer 420 cars etc. The Cayman may be gone as of tomorrow in which case the search will start in earnest...Hoping something suitable pops up..
Ed
I've driven a couple of lower powered cars before. My gut instinct is I want between 180 - 220 bhp area and hear what your saying ref engine choice...Initially i thought K series but more recently have been thinking Duratech might be nice as it'll spend more time on the road vs the track and i fancy the torque I think..My old Elise was only really any good when it was screaming which is fine when you want that but a bit crap the rest of the time..However my budget is likely max £27/£28k ish so only just scraping into R400D money which is what I think I want but very few around and when there is there often v.low miles or newer 420 cars etc. The Cayman may be gone as of tomorrow in which case the search will start in earnest...Hoping something suitable pops up..
Ed
AndrewGP said:
Ed, similar but slightly different situation here in that I own a both 987.2 Cayman and a Caterham. I use my Cayman as my daily driver and the Caterham for blatting about on the road and doing track days.
As you know they're totally different cars and are a world apart in they way they drive, so aside from the fact they are both 2 seat sports cars, they can't really be compared. The Cayman is quite involving but doesn't offer the feedback and sensory overload that the Caterham does. In addition, where the Cayman is quite practical with the 2 boots and a roof, the 7 is totally impractical (almost to the point of being annoying sometimes!). That said, from what you've written on how you'd use it (which is similar to me) then I think you're making the right decision.
My advice is hire one for a weekend. That way you can really see if it would fit in to your life and I think if you end up buying one from Caterham Cars, you get the hire fee back.
On the engine choice, I used to have a 160bhp K-Series Caterham and now have a 180bhp Duratec powered R300 Superlight. The K Series needed to be revved, under 4.5krpm there wasn't anything there, but from 5k to 7k it was great with loads of character. The Duratec is much more torquey and although it still likes to be revved, lacks a bit of the drama of the K Series had. Again, I'd drive both to see what you think.
Finally, could you not get rid of the company car and keep the Cayman as your daily and buy the Caterham anyway? I'm not swapping my two anytime soon as I think I've finally found the ultimate 2 car garage
As you know they're totally different cars and are a world apart in they way they drive, so aside from the fact they are both 2 seat sports cars, they can't really be compared. The Cayman is quite involving but doesn't offer the feedback and sensory overload that the Caterham does. In addition, where the Cayman is quite practical with the 2 boots and a roof, the 7 is totally impractical (almost to the point of being annoying sometimes!). That said, from what you've written on how you'd use it (which is similar to me) then I think you're making the right decision.
My advice is hire one for a weekend. That way you can really see if it would fit in to your life and I think if you end up buying one from Caterham Cars, you get the hire fee back.
On the engine choice, I used to have a 160bhp K-Series Caterham and now have a 180bhp Duratec powered R300 Superlight. The K Series needed to be revved, under 4.5krpm there wasn't anything there, but from 5k to 7k it was great with loads of character. The Duratec is much more torquey and although it still likes to be revved, lacks a bit of the drama of the K Series had. Again, I'd drive both to see what you think.
Finally, could you not get rid of the company car and keep the Cayman as your daily and buy the Caterham anyway? I'm not swapping my two anytime soon as I think I've finally found the ultimate 2 car garage
Best of luck with your search, I think in the current climate you need to be very quick as Caterhams are selling almost instantly.
Totally understand your preference for a Duratec, I also prefer it to the K Series and the extra torque is nice. I also wanted an R400D but like you couldn't quite stretch to it at the time and there were none for sale anyway So I'd say don't overlook a decent condition R300/360R as it's just a set of cams and an ECU flash to get it from 180bhp to 210bhp and it can be done anytime after you've bought the car.
If you fancy a read on mine and what I've done to it the thread is here.
Totally understand your preference for a Duratec, I also prefer it to the K Series and the extra torque is nice. I also wanted an R400D but like you couldn't quite stretch to it at the time and there were none for sale anyway
So I'd say don't overlook a decent condition R300/360R as it's just a set of cams and an ECU flash to get it from 180bhp to 210bhp and it can be done anytime after you've bought the car. If you fancy a read on mine and what I've done to it the thread is here.
Thanks for this. I agree and R300D or 360R would deffo appeal. Your car looks fantastic and the sort of thing I'm fancying.. A 420 would be great but out 9f reach I think..
Ed
Ed
AndrewGP said:
Best of luck with your search, I think in the current climate you need to be very quick as Caterhams are selling almost instantly.
Totally understand your preference for a Duratec, I also prefer it to the K Series and the extra torque is nice. I also wanted an R400D but like you couldn't quite stretch to it at the time and there were none for sale anyway So I'd say don't overlook a decent condition R300/360R as it's just a set of cams and an ECU flash to get it from 180bhp to 210bhp and it can be done anytime after you've bought the car.
If you fancy a read on mine and what I've done to it the thread is here.
Totally understand your preference for a Duratec, I also prefer it to the K Series and the extra torque is nice. I also wanted an R400D but like you couldn't quite stretch to it at the time and there were none for sale anyway
So I'd say don't overlook a decent condition R300/360R as it's just a set of cams and an ECU flash to get it from 180bhp to 210bhp and it can be done anytime after you've bought the car. If you fancy a read on mine and what I've done to it the thread is here.
So....That's the Cayman sold..A sad day as the car was a real cracker but on a positive note I'm now able to scratch the Caterham itch..
BertBert..yes I had seen the R500 on CC..Will watch on. Reds not really my thing and I'm unsure ref the details of the period it was in storage etc but worth keeping an eye on..
BertBert..yes I had seen the R500 on CC..Will watch on. Reds not really my thing and I'm unsure ref the details of the period it was in storage etc but worth keeping an eye on..
I've recently bought a Caterham 7 coming mainly from a variety of Porsches. Obviously very different cars and everything you suspect is probably true. Being near nice roads is a huge plus as the motorway miles aren't much fun although can be done. The driving experience on the right roads on the right day is like very little else on four wheels but I find the opportunities are limited due to practicalities, weather etc. I am happy with the compromise knowing I might only drive the car 10 times a year and have other options for longer / colder / wetter drives.
I really wanted a K-series engine as I think it suits the car very well in terms of light weight and drama in the last part of the rev range. I tried a couple of Duratec powered cars and found them to be quite the opposite. A well tuned Sigma engine might be a good middle ground if you want something more modern and within budget. Places like Premier Power provide cost effective tuning options. I think the ideal would be something like a K-series R300/400 or Sigma 310R with the option to tune further. Only way to find out is try them.
I really wanted a K-series engine as I think it suits the car very well in terms of light weight and drama in the last part of the rev range. I tried a couple of Duratec powered cars and found them to be quite the opposite. A well tuned Sigma engine might be a good middle ground if you want something more modern and within budget. Places like Premier Power provide cost effective tuning options. I think the ideal would be something like a K-series R300/400 or Sigma 310R with the option to tune further. Only way to find out is try them.
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