How much do I need for a decent Caterham?
Discussion
Hi, I'm new to this particular forum and thought someone could give me a few pointers. I'm about to buy an F355 and a very kind friend of mine has knocked down and rebuilt a wall of a spare garage for me to house it. Nice guy. Unfortunately, it's too small! I don't want to upset him so I've decided to buy something like a Catrham. I know nothing about the various types but I have driven one a few times and had a fantastic laugh so I'm really up for it. Problem is, the 355 is draining my finances so I need to know what I should spend on a car. I won't drive it all the time and I want to spend as little as poss. Any pointers? would really appreciate help from those who know!
Shaun_E said:
What are you looking for?
New or second hand? How old?
Road or track?
Rapid or mental?
What is your rough budget?
Second hand would be fine, age not really an issue unless they start to go badly wrong after a certain time. Road, the faster the better for 10k. seem to be a few options in the PH classifieds but it's a minefiled when you don't know too much!
You need to have a read of this:
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=180521&f=101&h=0
And a couple of other threads from the last few weeks. Everything will become clear
Good pair of cars, by the way
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=180521&f=101&h=0
And a couple of other threads from the last few weeks. Everything will become clear
Good pair of cars, by the way
Guys
If you follow the thread you'll find you cannot go wrong with the 'superlight' route. Ticks all the right boxes:
Fast (enough)
Six speed
All the right 'extras'
Better resale, due to reputation.
Have to say am overjoyed with mine, paid £14,500 for an pre cat with 5,000 mls. Only regret is I wish I'd bought one years ago.
Cheers
Jon
If you follow the thread you'll find you cannot go wrong with the 'superlight' route. Ticks all the right boxes:
Fast (enough)
Six speed
All the right 'extras'
Better resale, due to reputation.
Have to say am overjoyed with mine, paid £14,500 for an pre cat with 5,000 mls. Only regret is I wish I'd bought one years ago.
Cheers
Jon
I have to say, having a hole in the wall too small for a Ferrari is the strangest reason I've ever come across for someone wanting to buy a Caterham.
There are lots of good books out there on the Seven although some are more up top date than others. Have a look at Caterham Cars' website and you find out about the current models and you will also be able to browse their current stock of 2nd hand cars.
You can always access Blatchat, the Lotus 7 Club's website where there is lots of information about the Seven and club activities. You can't post to the forums however unless you are a paid up member of the club though.
There are lots of good books out there on the Seven although some are more up top date than others. Have a look at Caterham Cars' website and you find out about the current models and you will also be able to browse their current stock of 2nd hand cars.
You can always access Blatchat, the Lotus 7 Club's website where there is lots of information about the Seven and club activities. You can't post to the forums however unless you are a paid up member of the club though.
For new buyers, as a rough guide, I'd suggest:
<10k : depends what's around. Probably a scruffier K car.
10k-14k : probably a Vauxhall car or a K-series Supersport with 6speed box (don't listen to Ruby when he tells you a std 5spd K is OK - he drinks to much and takes mind bending drugs).
14k-17k : Superlight
17k-22k : Superlight R (if you feel that you need more power)
Over and bove that, I'd be looking at the new ranges to be honest. The R500 is a mental car, but to me not as complete a road car as the other two.
There are, of course, lots of other flavours out there. But for new people, I'd say these generalisations work.
<10k : depends what's around. Probably a scruffier K car.
10k-14k : probably a Vauxhall car or a K-series Supersport with 6speed box (don't listen to Ruby when he tells you a std 5spd K is OK - he drinks to much and takes mind bending drugs).
14k-17k : Superlight
17k-22k : Superlight R (if you feel that you need more power)
Over and bove that, I'd be looking at the new ranges to be honest. The R500 is a mental car, but to me not as complete a road car as the other two.
There are, of course, lots of other flavours out there. But for new people, I'd say these generalisations work.
Weather equipped SLR then.
You can get home brewed, tuned Ks. But they'll be harder to sell on later (and should be cheaper up front accordingly). They *can* be better than the standard cars though. So don't dismiss out of hand.
If you intend doing any track work, make double sure the car comes with a dry sump oil system.
Post on here or mail me if you see a car you like the look of.
You can get home brewed, tuned Ks. But they'll be harder to sell on later (and should be cheaper up front accordingly). They *can* be better than the standard cars though. So don't dismiss out of hand.
If you intend doing any track work, make double sure the car comes with a dry sump oil system.
Post on here or mail me if you see a car you like the look of.
Hey Murph
How's the Daytona?....
Is the SL to SLR a big jump in performance? Have to say although I'm only a month in with the SL I can feel the taste for more power coming on at some point. Where does it end? what is the ultimate compromise model for road and track, SLR? ie R500 to loony?
You guys who are now in the market, the one thing I would add is....get out there and do it, you will not regret it. These cars are amazing and you're waisting good summer driving time!
Just put the aero screen on for the first time this weekend, man why didn't you guys tell me to do this earlier!?
takes the whole thing to another level!! (although I do have a few flys embedded in my forehead)
Finally, listen to murph, he knows what he's talking about. I am forever greatful for the guidence I was given.
let me (us) know how you get on
Cheers
JC
How's the Daytona?....
Is the SL to SLR a big jump in performance? Have to say although I'm only a month in with the SL I can feel the taste for more power coming on at some point. Where does it end? what is the ultimate compromise model for road and track, SLR? ie R500 to loony?
You guys who are now in the market, the one thing I would add is....get out there and do it, you will not regret it. These cars are amazing and you're waisting good summer driving time!
Just put the aero screen on for the first time this weekend, man why didn't you guys tell me to do this earlier!?
takes the whole thing to another level!! (although I do have a few flys embedded in my forehead) Finally, listen to murph, he knows what he's talking about. I am forever greatful for the guidence I was given.
let me (us) know how you get on
Cheers
JC
The Daytona's awesome. Done around 2k miles in it now and really starting to get comfy with it. Had a tyre let go last weekend at 80mph - tracked well and steered to a stop (once the gawkers in the left two lanes let me move over!). The fun never ends
SL to SLR. Fairly big jump, most noticeable on the straights.
My advice here is to get lots of track time in the SL before doing very much with the engine (if anything). Get some instruction on track, fiddle with cheap stuff like brake pads, tyres (and pressures!) etc.
I'm not meaning to be patronising here. It's more or less how I worked my way through these cars (though I started with a 1400K 6spd Roadsport).
Track driving teaches you how to feel what the car is doing in a relatively safe environment. The lower powered car also teaches you finesse, and how to keep speed going (not sure when I'll learn either!) rather than just nailing the throttle at every opportunity (I have that one sussed) - all too easy to do the latter in a more powerful 7. Yes, you'll get round a circuit quickly. No, you won't last when faced with lower powered 7s and a good driver.
You can always get more power once the car feels like an old slipper (figuratively speaking) and you know exactly how it behaves/you get it to behave exactly as you want.
Having owned my original Caterham (1400 as mentioned, through to SLR matching homebrew) and a factory R500 at the same time, I honestly believe the R500 isn't as good a car if you ever go near a road.
First up, cars (most versions, and prior to the buy out) straight from the factory handle like garbage (IMHumbleO!). This is easy enough to resolve, but it takes time and a bit of cash. And ultimately, I couldn't be arsed.
Secondly, I never found the engine characteristics of the R500 to my liking. I found it incredibly hair trigger, and all too easy to be caught out one way or another.
At this point it's worth noting that my homebrew does not have the same throttle bodies as an SLR, so the comparison between it and an R500 made be somewhat moot. But I also found the general power characteristics not as satisfying in the R500 unless positively thrashing the nads off it (and I've been in pukka SLR's that were much better in this respect).
Each car is also an incremental step up in running costs - insurance, fuel, servicing etc. I do not hold with the notion that R500s are inherently unreliable. They are just a higher stressed car and need correspondingly more maintenance (in the same way that *any* high specific output engine does, perhaps save the odd Honda).
In the end, a good mate (rubystone) and I were chatting down the pub and he mentioned that F355s were getting "cheap". I made the mistake of listening and ended up p/xing the R500 for one (not 1:1 sadly). Note that there was never a second thought as to which car would go (which had nothing to do with their values at the time).
To this day I firmly believe that for me to have been any quicker in the R500 than I was in my original (and current) car, would have taken a lot of investment.
All that said, I have some embryonic plans for going absolutely mental in the 7 at some point in the nearish future. I'm a bit addicted to "multi cylinder" engines these days So I maybe don't know quite *that* much
PS I've owned the 7 for 8.5yrs now. And have heard of more nasty accidents in the last 2yrs or so than I did in the whole of the 6.5yrs prior to that.
I can't help but think the ready availability of very powerful 7s hasn't helped here. Nor has people jumping in and thrashing them without learning how to drive them properly. They are great cars, but they are not invincible - whatever you buy, be careful and play safely.
PPS If anyone wants any more input on these cars (or the others I'm fortunate to have), please feel free to mail me.
SL to SLR. Fairly big jump, most noticeable on the straights.
My advice here is to get lots of track time in the SL before doing very much with the engine (if anything). Get some instruction on track, fiddle with cheap stuff like brake pads, tyres (and pressures!) etc.
I'm not meaning to be patronising here. It's more or less how I worked my way through these cars (though I started with a 1400K 6spd Roadsport).
Track driving teaches you how to feel what the car is doing in a relatively safe environment. The lower powered car also teaches you finesse, and how to keep speed going (not sure when I'll learn either!) rather than just nailing the throttle at every opportunity (I have that one sussed) - all too easy to do the latter in a more powerful 7. Yes, you'll get round a circuit quickly. No, you won't last when faced with lower powered 7s and a good driver.
You can always get more power once the car feels like an old slipper (figuratively speaking) and you know exactly how it behaves/you get it to behave exactly as you want.
Having owned my original Caterham (1400 as mentioned, through to SLR matching homebrew) and a factory R500 at the same time, I honestly believe the R500 isn't as good a car if you ever go near a road.
First up, cars (most versions, and prior to the buy out) straight from the factory handle like garbage (IMHumbleO!). This is easy enough to resolve, but it takes time and a bit of cash. And ultimately, I couldn't be arsed.
Secondly, I never found the engine characteristics of the R500 to my liking. I found it incredibly hair trigger, and all too easy to be caught out one way or another.
At this point it's worth noting that my homebrew does not have the same throttle bodies as an SLR, so the comparison between it and an R500 made be somewhat moot. But I also found the general power characteristics not as satisfying in the R500 unless positively thrashing the nads off it (and I've been in pukka SLR's that were much better in this respect).
Each car is also an incremental step up in running costs - insurance, fuel, servicing etc. I do not hold with the notion that R500s are inherently unreliable. They are just a higher stressed car and need correspondingly more maintenance (in the same way that *any* high specific output engine does, perhaps save the odd Honda).
In the end, a good mate (rubystone) and I were chatting down the pub and he mentioned that F355s were getting "cheap". I made the mistake of listening and ended up p/xing the R500 for one (not 1:1 sadly). Note that there was never a second thought as to which car would go (which had nothing to do with their values at the time).
To this day I firmly believe that for me to have been any quicker in the R500 than I was in my original (and current) car, would have taken a lot of investment.
All that said, I have some embryonic plans for going absolutely mental in the 7 at some point in the nearish future. I'm a bit addicted to "multi cylinder" engines these days
So I maybe don't know quite *that* much PS I've owned the 7 for 8.5yrs now. And have heard of more nasty accidents in the last 2yrs or so than I did in the whole of the 6.5yrs prior to that.
I can't help but think the ready availability of very powerful 7s hasn't helped here. Nor has people jumping in and thrashing them without learning how to drive them properly. They are great cars, but they are not invincible - whatever you buy, be careful and play safely.
PPS If anyone wants any more input on these cars (or the others I'm fortunate to have), please feel free to mail me.
You nailed in it your penultimate paragraph Andy - £18k buys you an SLR now. It's warp factor acceleration in one of those and you have to hang on to it and know when to open the throttle and when to slot a higher gear to keep it on the road!
I graduated to my SLR through a Supersport having come via Porsches. A year learning to drive the Supersport definitely helped prepare me for the SLR.
Another side effect of owning a 7 is that when you go out to supplement your car (you'll never want to be without one once you've owned one...) you can choose its partner without having to base your purchase decision on whether it is the fastest or best handling car out there. You can choose it on the basis of other facets, such as aesthetics or engine noise...Believe me, your 7 will out handle it...
Finally, your best investment after buying the car is a flat floor/cornerweight session (assuming you have adjustable platforms, of course) followed by a cheap airfield day to learn just how high the car's limits are
I graduated to my SLR through a Supersport having come via Porsches. A year learning to drive the Supersport definitely helped prepare me for the SLR.
Another side effect of owning a 7 is that when you go out to supplement your car (you'll never want to be without one once you've owned one...) you can choose its partner without having to base your purchase decision on whether it is the fastest or best handling car out there. You can choose it on the basis of other facets, such as aesthetics or engine noise...Believe me, your 7 will out handle it...
Finally, your best investment after buying the car is a flat floor/cornerweight session (assuming you have adjustable platforms, of course) followed by a cheap airfield day to learn just how high the car's limits are
murph7355 said:
You need to have a read of this:
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=180521&f=101&h=0
And a couple of other threads from the last few weeks. Everything will become clear
Good pair of cars, by the way
Yes, I noticed you have similar taste murph7355! Thanks for your advice
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