Tillets to leather / tyres / broken speedo / tinnitus
Discussion
I’m a new Caterham owner. Just a few days in and not able to drive the car as for the first time in my life I now have tinnitus. It is easing off. Ear defenders need ordering! I have some things I need from the knowledge of experienced Caterham owners.
What seats?
My car has the lowered floors with Tillet bucket/race seats, and while fine for me both in terms of comfort and how low they are, my partner who’s just under 5ft is struggling to see out of the windscreen. Do the leather seats that some of these cars come with allow the occupants to sit higher? If so I’m going to whip them out, eBay them and try and find a set. Or find someone who wants to swap the other way.
Any other ways to raise the passenger side like a different runner set?
What tyre sizes?
The car has 13” wheels, and 175 55 R13 Avons on it. I keep searching tyre sizes and these seem the wrong size to me? Hopefully they are and the profile is too small as I’m touching every speed bump on the way out to nicer roads with my pants. An extra few mm could make all the difference!
Speedo woes?
After getting the car off the transporter, I noticed the speedo was not working. Previous owner had it fixed at Speedy Cables at some point so I’m wondering if it is the sensor (from searching the internet)? It lights up, if I unplug it and replug it again the needle moves but when driving nothing happens.
What seats?
My car has the lowered floors with Tillet bucket/race seats, and while fine for me both in terms of comfort and how low they are, my partner who’s just under 5ft is struggling to see out of the windscreen. Do the leather seats that some of these cars come with allow the occupants to sit higher? If so I’m going to whip them out, eBay them and try and find a set. Or find someone who wants to swap the other way.
Any other ways to raise the passenger side like a different runner set?
What tyre sizes?
The car has 13” wheels, and 175 55 R13 Avons on it. I keep searching tyre sizes and these seem the wrong size to me? Hopefully they are and the profile is too small as I’m touching every speed bump on the way out to nicer roads with my pants. An extra few mm could make all the difference!
Speedo woes?
After getting the car off the transporter, I noticed the speedo was not working. Previous owner had it fixed at Speedy Cables at some point so I’m wondering if it is the sensor (from searching the internet)? It lights up, if I unplug it and replug it again the needle moves but when driving nothing happens.
Sorry to see your mention of tinnitus. The engine noise or wind noise is a big problem and definitely wear ear defenders or ear plugs if doing a run. I have got some that were moulded for my ears and have special filters in to overcome the low noise frequencies but still allow me to hear people speaking. They were about £75 and worth every penny!
Having leather seats will make a little difference over the tillet seat. You can fit spacers under the tillet runners thought to lift it up. Usually its on the driver's side to give you more leg room/clearance by tilting the front up. Some people have added around 2" to rake them back but I can't see it being a problem to simply add 2"+ spacers all round to your wife's seat to lift it up. The lowered floor drops the seat by 2". Otherwise perhaps try sitting on a cushion. I had a piece of very dense foam for the kids that my wife occasionally used in my lowered floor car and it worked a treat.
Wheels/tyres: 175/55 X 13" all round? if so these are certainly on the small size for the rear. Fine for the front but usual width for rear is 205/60 x 13". I expect your car will need flat floor set up after wards but you should have a very usuable car to get over speed humps!
Having leather seats will make a little difference over the tillet seat. You can fit spacers under the tillet runners thought to lift it up. Usually its on the driver's side to give you more leg room/clearance by tilting the front up. Some people have added around 2" to rake them back but I can't see it being a problem to simply add 2"+ spacers all round to your wife's seat to lift it up. The lowered floor drops the seat by 2". Otherwise perhaps try sitting on a cushion. I had a piece of very dense foam for the kids that my wife occasionally used in my lowered floor car and it worked a treat.
Wheels/tyres: 175/55 X 13" all round? if so these are certainly on the small size for the rear. Fine for the front but usual width for rear is 205/60 x 13". I expect your car will need flat floor set up after wards but you should have a very usuable car to get over speed humps!
Ear protection is strongly recommended if you're going to drive close to the National limit on a regular basis. Various intercom schemes are available which can help. Driving with the doors off is horribly draughty >50 mph and not recommended.
13" wheels are regarded as providing the best handling. 14" and 15" wheels are available but they don't make a huge difference to ride height. The usual test for ride height is whether a coke can is able to roll beneath your sump. If it can, you've as much clearance as most 7s. The wider rear wheels tend to be recommended for higher engine power and you might find you don't need them. Note that 7 handling is sensitive to rake (ride height difference front to rear) so any ride height adjustment (if you have adjustable platforms) need to retain the rake.
For the speedo the first thing to check should be the sensor adjustment. The sensor is located behind the offside rear wheel (which will need to be removed for access). Start with a gap of 1mm and screw it in and out to adjust. With the ignition on, rotating the hub should cause the LED on the sensor to flash as the teeth on the sensor wheel come into proximity. Adjust the sensor head to obtain flashing for every pass of the teeth. If you can't obtain a good series of signals for the whole rotation, the sensor is probably duff. Caterham or Redline can provide replacements. Sensors are available on-line for less cost but they usually come without a fitted plug so are more hassle.
13" wheels are regarded as providing the best handling. 14" and 15" wheels are available but they don't make a huge difference to ride height. The usual test for ride height is whether a coke can is able to roll beneath your sump. If it can, you've as much clearance as most 7s. The wider rear wheels tend to be recommended for higher engine power and you might find you don't need them. Note that 7 handling is sensitive to rake (ride height difference front to rear) so any ride height adjustment (if you have adjustable platforms) need to retain the rake.
For the speedo the first thing to check should be the sensor adjustment. The sensor is located behind the offside rear wheel (which will need to be removed for access). Start with a gap of 1mm and screw it in and out to adjust. With the ignition on, rotating the hub should cause the LED on the sensor to flash as the teeth on the sensor wheel come into proximity. Adjust the sensor head to obtain flashing for every pass of the teeth. If you can't obtain a good series of signals for the whole rotation, the sensor is probably duff. Caterham or Redline can provide replacements. Sensors are available on-line for less cost but they usually come without a fitted plug so are more hassle.
The speedo (assuming yours is not cable-driven) issue is a common one. Google, BlatChat, Facebook et al are your friends to find out more.
Whilst the sensors have been known to fail and there is also a Workshop note for an earth mod (No 572) that makes the signal more reliable, in my experience, it is most likely is that the gap between sensor and the toothed wheel it ‘reads’ on the driveshaft is out.
With the rear offside wheel off and ignition on, when rotating the hub the end of the sensor should light as each tooth passes it. If it doesn't, the gap's wrong.
Enjoy your new car!
Whilst the sensors have been known to fail and there is also a Workshop note for an earth mod (No 572) that makes the signal more reliable, in my experience, it is most likely is that the gap between sensor and the toothed wheel it ‘reads’ on the driveshaft is out.
With the rear offside wheel off and ignition on, when rotating the hub the end of the sensor should light as each tooth passes it. If it doesn't, the gap's wrong.
Enjoy your new car!
It's personal preference but I wouldn't go from tillets back to leather, especially if, as the driver, you find them comfortable.
Initially I'd look at spacers and the foam / cushion route to see what works and how much height gain you need.....
Protect your ears.
Edited to add : I have lowered on drivers side on mine with tillets but not on passenger (it was like that when I bought it). I'd still not make any fundamental changes like changing both seats or re-converting to not lowered floor on passenger until I'd live with it a while and tried the foam etc above (maybe with spacers solution if she really can't see over the scuttle !)
Initially I'd look at spacers and the foam / cushion route to see what works and how much height gain you need.....
Protect your ears.
Edited to add : I have lowered on drivers side on mine with tillets but not on passenger (it was like that when I bought it). I'd still not make any fundamental changes like changing both seats or re-converting to not lowered floor on passenger until I'd live with it a while and tried the foam etc above (maybe with spacers solution if she really can't see over the scuttle !)
Edited by Steve Campbell on Wednesday 11th September 12:52
As mentioned above, it's most likely you need to adjust your speedo sensor. I found the gap between sensor and toothed wheel needed to be bigger than I expected.
I use cheap disposable 3M foam ear plugs. Perfectly OK for me, although others prefer better protection.
I have seen Caterhams with a lowered floor on just the driver side. So I guess it would be possible to convert the passenger side to non-lowered, if you wanted to go this route. It looks a bit odd having different seat hights, but who cares if it works for you.
For those that don't know: Aircooled_Bug owns a gorgeous Porsche 993C2S and has documented his recent epic USA road trip.
Be prepared for much lower bills compared with your 993.
I use cheap disposable 3M foam ear plugs. Perfectly OK for me, although others prefer better protection.
I have seen Caterhams with a lowered floor on just the driver side. So I guess it would be possible to convert the passenger side to non-lowered, if you wanted to go this route. It looks a bit odd having different seat hights, but who cares if it works for you.
For those that don't know: Aircooled_Bug owns a gorgeous Porsche 993C2S and has documented his recent epic USA road trip.
Be prepared for much lower bills compared with your 993.
I wouldn't go 205s on a 1600 k. I'd be the same all the way round. For the ride height, do you have adjustable platforms on your shocks? If so you could also try raising the ride height.
For the seat, as well as what others have said you could try making an expanding foam booster insert. Always good fun! I've done quite a few from normal race seat stuff to making a booster for my 14 year old to drive the Clio cup I had at the time.
For the seat, as well as what others have said you could try making an expanding foam booster insert. Always good fun! I've done quite a few from normal race seat stuff to making a booster for my 14 year old to drive the Clio cup I had at the time.
Tyres: 185/70 x 13 on mine. Been running that size on road since 1992 (not the same tyres)
The larger profile size suits a road Caterham. Options in that size include Uniroyal Rain Expert 3, which have had good reviews, and Caterham's own branded Avon CR322, which are quite often slagged off, but I have them on mine and I quite like them. They're clearly not as grippy as some, but they do work well when things get really wet, and were designed specifically with a Seven in mind.
Edited to add that the Avon’s are around £80 each, and the Uniroyals are around £40 ish.
The larger profile size suits a road Caterham. Options in that size include Uniroyal Rain Expert 3, which have had good reviews, and Caterham's own branded Avon CR322, which are quite often slagged off, but I have them on mine and I quite like them. They're clearly not as grippy as some, but they do work well when things get really wet, and were designed specifically with a Seven in mind.
Edited to add that the Avon’s are around £80 each, and the Uniroyals are around £40 ish.
Edited by Mort7 on Wednesday 11th September 22:04
I used to love my CR322s, principally because they provided very little in the way of grip which made my car- even with only 100bhp- feel very alive.
I don’t think the new ones are E-marked for road use any more and exist only to supply the Academy championship.
I couldn’t recommend putting a modern touring tyre especially in a 185/70 on a Caterham because while they’ll hang on pretty well in all conditions, they will take too much feeling out of the car.
Trackday tyres have a softer compound which works better on light cars and while they will lack grip when cold and in wet conditions, they will tell you all about it.
185/60s will give you about 10mm more radius. If you’ve got adjustable platforms you can wind them up to gain more ride height if you need it.
I don’t think the new ones are E-marked for road use any more and exist only to supply the Academy championship.
I couldn’t recommend putting a modern touring tyre especially in a 185/70 on a Caterham because while they’ll hang on pretty well in all conditions, they will take too much feeling out of the car.
Trackday tyres have a softer compound which works better on light cars and while they will lack grip when cold and in wet conditions, they will tell you all about it.
185/60s will give you about 10mm more radius. If you’ve got adjustable platforms you can wind them up to gain more ride height if you need it.
Thanks for the welcome and useful replies.
Tillets seem comfy enough given the lack of padding. Guessing they are much lighter too which is the most important thing! No idea what the difference in regular and high back Tillets are so can't answer that. Will try with a cushion and see how we get on.
Speedo sensor I will look at this weekend. Driver side rear wheel.
Stuart7, I really hope so. That 993 has been far from economical to maintain. I've another car that's just blown a head gasket with a doom bill looming! Caterham, please be good to me!
Great to learn I've the correct tyre sizes for this type of Caterham (as in one of the lower power ones) at 175 55 13, and that 185 60 will also work.
Car does have adjustable platforms.
Really looking forward to using it (with some ear protection). Currently very much enjoying just looking at it and am making excuses to go eye it up a couple of times a day. Love how tiny it is!
Tillets seem comfy enough given the lack of padding. Guessing they are much lighter too which is the most important thing! No idea what the difference in regular and high back Tillets are so can't answer that. Will try with a cushion and see how we get on.
Speedo sensor I will look at this weekend. Driver side rear wheel.
Stuart7, I really hope so. That 993 has been far from economical to maintain. I've another car that's just blown a head gasket with a doom bill looming! Caterham, please be good to me!
Great to learn I've the correct tyre sizes for this type of Caterham (as in one of the lower power ones) at 175 55 13, and that 185 60 will also work.
Car does have adjustable platforms.
Really looking forward to using it (with some ear protection). Currently very much enjoying just looking at it and am making excuses to go eye it up a couple of times a day. Love how tiny it is!
As far as I'm aware, CR322s have always been e Marked. Production was brought from China to the UK some time around 2011, when they became Caterham branded and only available through Caterham.
The compound has changed from the original Chinese version too, and is now a little softer. I received this from Caterham in 2011 by way of explanation:-
"I can confirm that new tyres do differ from the original Chinese manufactured tyres. In the intervening period, laws on the materials used in tyre compounds have changed to make tyre production more environmentally responsible. Although the tyres have moved from China to the UK, they will otherwise be identical. It may well be this change that you can detect in the tyres."
The compound has changed from the original Chinese version too, and is now a little softer. I received this from Caterham in 2011 by way of explanation:-
"I can confirm that new tyres do differ from the original Chinese manufactured tyres. In the intervening period, laws on the materials used in tyre compounds have changed to make tyre production more environmentally responsible. Although the tyres have moved from China to the UK, they will otherwise be identical. It may well be this change that you can detect in the tyres."
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