Dry sump issues, K series superlight R
Discussion
Hi all, just picked up an SLR which is my first dry sump car. Got it home on Friday, went to drive it last night and found a puddle of oil under it. The oil filter was loose (the car had just had an oil sender repair done before I picked it up, guess it got disturbed then) so I retightened it and left it overnight. There were no fresh drips this morning, so I put half a litre of fresh oil in, then after reading about typical high oil consumption on these engines I put an extra half litre in.
I read up on how to check the level, and found some advice that said the engine had to be hot and then "check the level within 5 seconds of shutting the engine off, have the dipstick unscrewed and ready". I started the engine, checked that the pressure was coming up, and within a couple of seconds oil started pouring out if the dipstick hole. Managed to get to the cutoff switch and kill the power, and have just spent the last half hour trying to clear up the engine bay!
So, was I stupid to run the engine without the dipstick screwed in, or is the oil geyser out of the top a sign that I have massively overfilled it? I want to figure out what I am doing before I run it again and explode the oil filter or the catch can or something!
Any assistance would be much appreciated, I have never had a dry sump car before and this one is too nice to figure it out as I go along!
I read up on how to check the level, and found some advice that said the engine had to be hot and then "check the level within 5 seconds of shutting the engine off, have the dipstick unscrewed and ready". I started the engine, checked that the pressure was coming up, and within a couple of seconds oil started pouring out if the dipstick hole. Managed to get to the cutoff switch and kill the power, and have just spent the last half hour trying to clear up the engine bay!
So, was I stupid to run the engine without the dipstick screwed in, or is the oil geyser out of the top a sign that I have massively overfilled it? I want to figure out what I am doing before I run it again and explode the oil filter or the catch can or something!
Any assistance would be much appreciated, I have never had a dry sump car before and this one is too nice to figure it out as I go along!
overfilled my friend.
Take out what you have put in. The leak was probably a few 10's of ml's. Not 1.5l's.
If starting with a level that is roughly correct. Best way with dry sump K series is to let it find it's own level using the oil catch tank. Add a small amount (1/10 litre) and then give a blast - no oil in the catch tank - repeat. Oil in the catch tank, you are fine. I always keep the catch tank empty to make it super easy to see what is going on.
Simon
Take out what you have put in. The leak was probably a few 10's of ml's. Not 1.5l's.
If starting with a level that is roughly correct. Best way with dry sump K series is to let it find it's own level using the oil catch tank. Add a small amount (1/10 litre) and then give a blast - no oil in the catch tank - repeat. Oil in the catch tank, you are fine. I always keep the catch tank empty to make it super easy to see what is going on.
Simon
When you say that you have run the engine with the dip stick removed, do you mean that you have removed the complete cap, leaving a hole maybe 50mm in diameter exposed?
There are several different revisions of the DS tower cap. Mine has a dipstick that unscrews to leave a 10mm diameter hole, and is quite safe to run with this missing. This dip stick screws into a lager cap incorporating a baffle tube. If I run the engine with this cap missing, even with too little oil in the system, oil still splashes out.
One litre can easily go from way too little, to way too much oil.
There are several different revisions of the DS tower cap. Mine has a dipstick that unscrews to leave a 10mm diameter hole, and is quite safe to run with this missing. This dip stick screws into a lager cap incorporating a baffle tube. If I run the engine with this cap missing, even with too little oil in the system, oil still splashes out.
One litre can easily go from way too little, to way too much oil.
Boylston said:
overfilled my friend.
Take out what you have put in. The leak was probably a few 10's of ml's. Not 1.5l's.
If starting with a level that is roughly correct. Best way with dry sump K series is to let it find it's own level using the oil catch tank. Add a small amount (1/10 litre) and then give a blast - no oil in the catch tank - repeat. Oil in the catch tank, you are fine. I always keep the catch tank empty to make it super easy to see what is going on.
Simon
I've seen this method described before and I don't really get it. Why would it be that the right level of oil in the tank is the one that puts some out into the catch tank? Also the faff of putting 10ml in, then driving, then checking again strikes me as bonkers Take out what you have put in. The leak was probably a few 10's of ml's. Not 1.5l's.
If starting with a level that is roughly correct. Best way with dry sump K series is to let it find it's own level using the oil catch tank. Add a small amount (1/10 litre) and then give a blast - no oil in the catch tank - repeat. Oil in the catch tank, you are fine. I always keep the catch tank empty to make it super easy to see what is going on.
Simon
I happily checked the level with a dipstick for many years of k-series ownership. Anyhows it clearly works for you!
Bert
I agree with Bert Bert .... and I'd also suggest that you make a proper dipstick.
Simple length of 5mm diameter ally rod (B&Q do some) that will reach the bottom of the belltank, put a mark around 10.5" from the bottom which should correspond with the o/e dipstick. If you do get any excess oil blowing into the catch tank you can mark the new dipstick at the fill level where it happens. the advantage of a full length dipstick is that you can see how much oil you actually have rather than having to keep adding some until it reads on the o/e dipstick.
Simple length of 5mm diameter ally rod (B&Q do some) that will reach the bottom of the belltank, put a mark around 10.5" from the bottom which should correspond with the o/e dipstick. If you do get any excess oil blowing into the catch tank you can mark the new dipstick at the fill level where it happens. the advantage of a full length dipstick is that you can see how much oil you actually have rather than having to keep adding some until it reads on the o/e dipstick.
My R400 dry sump has a dip stick, I do what Boyston says and here is another view https://www.lotus7.club/forum/techtalk/dry-sump-oi...
Joined: 17/04/2014
And one other thing.... (according to the owner's handbook) 'The oil level has to be checked within one minute of stopping the engine, otherwise the oil drains back to the engine causing a false reading. Should this be the case, the engine should be restarting and ran for one minute before stopping and repeating the checking procedure.' Apparantly darren f The Building of R300SEV is Here
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18th May 2003 - 17:34 #5
SteveP
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Just to add my experience in here. Not a hijack, just related. I have a dry sumped R300 and following advice on here made up a dipstick from ally bar and put marks on it at 9.5, 10 and 10.5 inches from the bottom. Measuring cold, the level is normally around the 10" mark but when hot is more like 12 - 14" up the bar. Nothing gets pumped to the catch tank, although I do get a fair bit of vapour and a trace of oil on the outside of the tank (it's the Mocal tank with breathable cap and one input sealed up) I presume all Caterham dry sump setups are the same, so why the huge discrepancy here in other people's oil levels? Not tried measuring the oil level using the Caterham supplied 'dipstick' at all as I can't see the oil on the brown end of the stick as it's still relatively clean. SteveP
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19th May 2003 - 14:40 #6
DAVID L
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Thanks you lot! Seems there is no definitive answer but I quite fancy the ruler/ally rod idea. I guess I could just overfill it then after a run the excess would be in the catch tank (or on the Caterham bypass) so what remains should give a datum. DAVID L It's quite easy being GREEN !
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19th May 2003 - 15:37 #7
Sheds Moderator
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Don't do as I did this spring. Went to garage having not used the car for a week or two, checked alll the fluids, was slightly alarmed to find very little oil in the thing. Topped it up, put about 2 litres in, rather alarmed. Dry sump veterans by now will be sniggering. Fired engine up, ran it for a while as it warmed up, turned off engine, decided to check engine oil. You've guessed it, oil pi55ing everywhere. If you didn't already know, after a few minutes/hours of stopping the engine the contents of the catch tank drain into the sump via the scavenge pump and you end up with all the oil in the sump and the catch tank nearly empty. When you restart the engine the scavenge pump pumps it all out into the catch tank, everyone is happy, provided they haven't just put 2 litres of Comma's finest into the thing and completely filled the sump and the tank...which is then all pumped into the catch tank and overflows...Doh. This is from a man who thinks he is mechanically competent. I now run the beast for a while and switch off, if the oil is visible on the slope of the top baffle plate I'm happy. Don't do as it says in the Cat manual and check it engine running, that just leads to oily shoes and no idea of how much oil is in the thing
Joined: 17/04/2014
And one other thing.... (according to the owner's handbook) 'The oil level has to be checked within one minute of stopping the engine, otherwise the oil drains back to the engine causing a false reading. Should this be the case, the engine should be restarting and ran for one minute before stopping and repeating the checking procedure.' Apparantly darren f The Building of R300SEV is Here
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18th May 2003 - 17:34 #5
SteveP
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Last seen: Never ago
Joined: 17/04/2014
Just to add my experience in here. Not a hijack, just related. I have a dry sumped R300 and following advice on here made up a dipstick from ally bar and put marks on it at 9.5, 10 and 10.5 inches from the bottom. Measuring cold, the level is normally around the 10" mark but when hot is more like 12 - 14" up the bar. Nothing gets pumped to the catch tank, although I do get a fair bit of vapour and a trace of oil on the outside of the tank (it's the Mocal tank with breathable cap and one input sealed up) I presume all Caterham dry sump setups are the same, so why the huge discrepancy here in other people's oil levels? Not tried measuring the oil level using the Caterham supplied 'dipstick' at all as I can't see the oil on the brown end of the stick as it's still relatively clean. SteveP
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19th May 2003 - 14:40 #6
DAVID L
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Last seen: Never ago
Joined: 17/04/2014
Thanks you lot! Seems there is no definitive answer but I quite fancy the ruler/ally rod idea. I guess I could just overfill it then after a run the excess would be in the catch tank (or on the Caterham bypass) so what remains should give a datum. DAVID L It's quite easy being GREEN !
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19th May 2003 - 15:37 #7
Sheds Moderator
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Last seen: 3 years 2 months ago
Joined: 17/04/2014
Don't do as I did this spring. Went to garage having not used the car for a week or two, checked alll the fluids, was slightly alarmed to find very little oil in the thing. Topped it up, put about 2 litres in, rather alarmed. Dry sump veterans by now will be sniggering. Fired engine up, ran it for a while as it warmed up, turned off engine, decided to check engine oil. You've guessed it, oil pi55ing everywhere. If you didn't already know, after a few minutes/hours of stopping the engine the contents of the catch tank drain into the sump via the scavenge pump and you end up with all the oil in the sump and the catch tank nearly empty. When you restart the engine the scavenge pump pumps it all out into the catch tank, everyone is happy, provided they haven't just put 2 litres of Comma's finest into the thing and completely filled the sump and the tank...which is then all pumped into the catch tank and overflows...Doh. This is from a man who thinks he is mechanically competent. I now run the beast for a while and switch off, if the oil is visible on the slope of the top baffle plate I'm happy. Don't do as it says in the Cat manual and check it engine running, that just leads to oily shoes and no idea of how much oil is in the thing
BertBert said:
And to add... I have seen several of my cars happily putting oil into the catch tank when the oil level was in fact low, so it would be a mistake to view the catch tank as just an overflow tank!
Bert
Agreed, even my old Roadsport blurted out a little oil in to the catch tank when it was within "normal' levels on the dipstickBert
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