To CSR or not to CSR, that is the question?
Discussion
Morning all, I'm after some opinions from those more experienced in Caterham driving/ownership than I, please!
I am looking at entering the world of Caterham ownership for the first time, and amongst the multitude of models available there is one that stands out as really appealing, the CSR260. I need an SV chassis anyway (there are knee/steering wheel issues in standard-bodied models!), and I want something with a decent amount of poke so I don't get bored too quickly. I have been into bikes for a good few years now, including plenty of trackdays, and I'm looking at getting back into car trackdays - so whilst a Roadsport SV 125 would be perfectly suitable for the road, I think I would want a bit more poke on track.
I know everyone will tell me to go try a couple out, and I do intend to, but finding any that are even reasonably local to me with an SV chassis is not easy! So my question is, is a CSR really worth the c.£10k premium they seem to command over a decent SV Roadsport or Supersport, given I've found a decent CSR locally? I realise that is quite a broad question given the multitude of engine options available, but engine/power output aside, does all the fancy suspension and chassis improvements justify the premium? Most of the SV's I'm looking at are around 150-190bhp with decent spec, and a solid £10k less.
In terms of my usage, it will be the odd weekend blast, a pretty bumpy cross-county commute to work once a week in the summer, and 3-4 trackdays a year.
Appreciate you advice/opinions!
Thanks.
I am looking at entering the world of Caterham ownership for the first time, and amongst the multitude of models available there is one that stands out as really appealing, the CSR260. I need an SV chassis anyway (there are knee/steering wheel issues in standard-bodied models!), and I want something with a decent amount of poke so I don't get bored too quickly. I have been into bikes for a good few years now, including plenty of trackdays, and I'm looking at getting back into car trackdays - so whilst a Roadsport SV 125 would be perfectly suitable for the road, I think I would want a bit more poke on track.
I know everyone will tell me to go try a couple out, and I do intend to, but finding any that are even reasonably local to me with an SV chassis is not easy! So my question is, is a CSR really worth the c.£10k premium they seem to command over a decent SV Roadsport or Supersport, given I've found a decent CSR locally? I realise that is quite a broad question given the multitude of engine options available, but engine/power output aside, does all the fancy suspension and chassis improvements justify the premium? Most of the SV's I'm looking at are around 150-190bhp with decent spec, and a solid £10k less.
In terms of my usage, it will be the odd weekend blast, a pretty bumpy cross-county commute to work once a week in the summer, and 3-4 trackdays a year.
Appreciate you advice/opinions!
Thanks.
From the experience of an SV, S3 and an CSR and about 10.000 miles of road and fast road drivng with theese cars (CSR now close to 150.000 km) I can say thre is little difference in road handling when the road is perfect. However the less perfect the road is the more the independent rear suspension of the CSR is of grat value. I do all the alpine roads in Austria and South Tyrol. Yes I would say to me its worth the difference in price. Power very subjective I love 260hp.
hope I could give You some vluable input
Hanns Per
hope I could give You some vluable input
Hanns Per
Ultimately, the only opinion that matters is your own. All Caterham's have their pro and cons, so don't get too hung up on any particular model or car. There's nothing wrong with the CSR, but it's not everyone choice and may offer less of the raw experience. But if it is not for track, and budget can stretch that far, then go for it. If you research the car and price correctly, it won't lose you money if you change your mind later on.
repsna said:
From the experience of an SV, S3 and an CSR and about 10.000 miles of road and fast road drivng with theese cars (CSR now close to 150.000 km) I can say thre is little difference in road handling when the road is perfect. However the less perfect the road is the more the independent rear suspension of the CSR is of grat value. I do all the alpine roads in Austria and South Tyrol. Yes I would say to me its worth the difference in price. Power very subjective I love 260hp.
hope I could give You some vluable input
Hanns Per
Thanks Hanns, really helpful! That's the thing, the roads around where I live (Buckinghamshire) are a terrible state, so the more refined suspension of the CSR does appeal. To be honest, although it felt quick it didn't feel as mind-bendingly quick as I'd hoped/expected; but then motorbikes do perhaps distort that perception somewhat! So how much quicker than more refined CSR260 feels compared to, say, a Supersport SV 190, is debatable... hope I could give You some vluable input
Hanns Per
DCL said:
Ultimately, the only opinion that matters is your own. All Caterham's have their pro and cons, so don't get too hung up on any particular model or car. There's nothing wrong with the CSR, but it's not everyone choice and may offer less of the raw experience. But if it is not for track, and budget can stretch that far, then go for it. If you research the car and price correctly, it won't lose you money if you change your mind later on.
That's the thing, I'm not specifically looking for a CSR, but it does kind of feel like the most appropriate model for my needs. Even a CSR feels pretty 'raw' compared to most modern cars!! Why do you say "if not for track"? I will take it on some trackdays as well as road use. Budget wise, all CSR's seem to be around £35k (up to £40k for a CSR Superlight), which I can stretch to but would feel happier spending £25k if I can find something that suits! There is a Cat D CSR260 on the market for around £27k I think...not sure how big an issue a Cat D write-off is on such a simple/easy to repair car (compared to an aluminium chassis car, for instance...)?
My first question would be to confirm whether you can or can't fit sensibly in an S3.
How tall ? How round :-) ?
If you've just tried one and decided you don't fit, you need to realize there are multiple options for improving access if you are tall, including lowered floors, type of seat configuration etc. & a removable small steering wheel helps.
If you are very round, SV is a definite :-)
If you do fit in an S3, I'd be looking at R400 Duratec's (210bhp) that would likely be in the £25 - £35k bracket depending on age.
If you are in Bucks, you're not too far from PT Sportscars in Maidenhead who always have a broad range of stuff in stock to go and discuss / try for size etc
How tall ? How round :-) ?
If you've just tried one and decided you don't fit, you need to realize there are multiple options for improving access if you are tall, including lowered floors, type of seat configuration etc. & a removable small steering wheel helps.
If you are very round, SV is a definite :-)
If you do fit in an S3, I'd be looking at R400 Duratec's (210bhp) that would likely be in the £25 - £35k bracket depending on age.
If you are in Bucks, you're not too far from PT Sportscars in Maidenhead who always have a broad range of stuff in stock to go and discuss / try for size etc
Edited by Steve Campbell on Wednesday 21st March 13:36
If in Bucks the Lotus & Caterham club meet at The Squirrel - Penn Street, Amersham, Buckinghamshire. HP7 0PX Last Saturday of the month from 12 noon.
You do not need to be a member to come along, usually a variety of 7s and tons of experience of all sorts of 7s.
I do rather like the CSR, but I may be in a minority for preferring the swoopy dash variant.
You do not need to be a member to come along, usually a variety of 7s and tons of experience of all sorts of 7s.
I do rather like the CSR, but I may be in a minority for preferring the swoopy dash variant.
Mike
Not owned a CSR but many Caterham owners seem to start with an S3/S5(SV) and then buy what to some is probably the ultimate incarnation of a Caterham with the IRS and inboard front suspension. I see the Cat D CSR at Milwoods and sure it is fine but like a house that has had subsidence it will always have a blight on it even though it's all fixed. Basically any Caterham that is repaired by Arch Motors will be as good as if it had left the factory.
A local member to me Chris Harris has a CSR for sale as he has bought a new car, he is also a biker so worth talking to him. I think he has just had his CSR repainted and some other work done to get it ready for sale so sounds like it would be a really good buy. Link to the ad below. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Nick
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Not owned a CSR but many Caterham owners seem to start with an S3/S5(SV) and then buy what to some is probably the ultimate incarnation of a Caterham with the IRS and inboard front suspension. I see the Cat D CSR at Milwoods and sure it is fine but like a house that has had subsidence it will always have a blight on it even though it's all fixed. Basically any Caterham that is repaired by Arch Motors will be as good as if it had left the factory.
A local member to me Chris Harris has a CSR for sale as he has bought a new car, he is also a biker so worth talking to him. I think he has just had his CSR repainted and some other work done to get it ready for sale so sounds like it would be a really good buy. Link to the ad below. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Nick
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Mike
Not owned a CSR but many Caterham owners seem to start with an S3/S5(SV) and then buy what to some is probably the ultimate incarnation of a Caterham with the IRS and inboard front suspension. I see the Cat D CSR at Milwoods and sure it is fine but like a house that has had subsidence it will always have a blight on it even though it's all fixed. Basically any Caterham that is repaired by Arch Motors will be as good as if it had left the factory.
A local member to me Chris Harris has a CSR for sale as he has bought a new car, he is also a biker so worth talking to him. I think he has just had his CSR repainted and some other work done to get it ready for sale so sounds like it would be a really good buy. Link to the ad below. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Nick
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
Not owned a CSR but many Caterham owners seem to start with an S3/S5(SV) and then buy what to some is probably the ultimate incarnation of a Caterham with the IRS and inboard front suspension. I see the Cat D CSR at Milwoods and sure it is fine but like a house that has had subsidence it will always have a blight on it even though it's all fixed. Basically any Caterham that is repaired by Arch Motors will be as good as if it had left the factory.
A local member to me Chris Harris has a CSR for sale as he has bought a new car, he is also a biker so worth talking to him. I think he has just had his CSR repainted and some other work done to get it ready for sale so sounds like it would be a really good buy. Link to the ad below. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Nick
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I'm a CSR 260 owner and had an R400 Duratec SV beforehand. I have needed an SV due to height and leg length.
I have found the CSR to be a much nicer car to drive on the road. The suspension is so much more compliant than the normal caterham set up which i found used to skip over bumps at the rear. I like the 260 engine as well as it has buckets of torque.
I have used my car for some long trips, back road blasts and a couple of track days and it is a fantastic all rounder.
If you want any more info on CSRs feel free to ask. Which one are you looking at ?
cheers.
I have found the CSR to be a much nicer car to drive on the road. The suspension is so much more compliant than the normal caterham set up which i found used to skip over bumps at the rear. I like the 260 engine as well as it has buckets of torque.
I have used my car for some long trips, back road blasts and a couple of track days and it is a fantastic all rounder.
If you want any more info on CSRs feel free to ask. Which one are you looking at ?
cheers.
Thanks for all the replies guys! I have tried several S3's at PT Sports cars and although I can get in them fine, I can't change gear in any of them as my knee hits the steering wheel/dash/transmission tunnel when trying to use the clutch, so they're a no go. The CSR I tried out fits like a glove.
I like the idea of the more refined suspension in the CSR too, the roads round where I live are a pothole-strewn off-camber mess, so the extra refinement would probably be a blessing.
Just struggling with the price of them; over £30k is an awful lot of money to sink into a weekend/trackdays toy, but I'm worried a £20-£25k SV isn't as good a car for my needs! 🤔
I like the idea of the more refined suspension in the CSR too, the roads round where I live are a pothole-strewn off-camber mess, so the extra refinement would probably be a blessing.
Just struggling with the price of them; over £30k is an awful lot of money to sink into a weekend/trackdays toy, but I'm worried a £20-£25k SV isn't as good a car for my needs! 🤔
One thing to remember with a caterham is that they hold their money very well. If you buy a CSR for £38k it will still be worth £38k in a year, minus a bit of dealer bid/ask spread.
I have a feeling that CSRs may even start to appreciate now production has stopped.
Someone will know this better than me but I think the superlight had aero wishbones, Carbon Tillet seats and track day roll bar.
I have a feeling that CSRs may even start to appreciate now production has stopped.
Someone will know this better than me but I think the superlight had aero wishbones, Carbon Tillet seats and track day roll bar.
The only key difference is the dash design, swooping or stack (super-light). Mine has the swooping dash, carbon tillets and aero wishbones. Personally I felt that the swooping dash design was one of the key features unique to the CSR that set it apart. Plus it strengthens the overall chassis too. Go for, I’ve not regretted it for one minute.
Edited by hutch2196 on Sunday 25th March 07:20
I believe that the Superlight had bespoke dampers and a quick steering rack ... it also weighed 25 kilos less due to choice of options ...
http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/cartestreports/2...
Take a read of this ...
http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/cartestreports/2...
Take a read of this ...
Edited by ChrisW. on Saturday 24th March 22:55
Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 26th March 21:41
I had a CSR260 for a few years and it was my first Caterham.
Once I tired of driving it on the road I did mainly track days and have now replaced it with a 620R as I wanted a more track focussed car.
Mine had the flat carbon dash so I didn't have the steering wheel indicator stalks etc. Generally it was a great car and I even made money on it after six years of ownership.
Only negatives I would mention are that mine kangarooed at low throttle openings in traffic etc. I had it re-mapped by the Two Steves and this improved it but didn't totally cure it. Mine also understeered generally and I probably ran it with too high a ride height as I hated hitting the sump. It did seem much more prone to grounding than my 620R even though I run that much lower.
Mine also wore a hole in the bonnet due to a clip on the air filter being incorrectly fitted during a service at CC. I think this was also partly because I had the engine as high as possible to improve the ground clearance.
When I went abroad in mine I was always slightly paranoid about punctures as the tyres are hard to find, especially the rears. I think it is only Avon who make them in that articular size.
Like you, when I purchased my CSR I though I needed an SV but now I have got used to an S3 I generally prefer the fit of the smaller car.
I certainly wouldn't worry about getting a 260bhp Caterham as your first caterham. The power delivery is very linear and I never found it to be intimidating.
Once I tired of driving it on the road I did mainly track days and have now replaced it with a 620R as I wanted a more track focussed car.
Mine had the flat carbon dash so I didn't have the steering wheel indicator stalks etc. Generally it was a great car and I even made money on it after six years of ownership.
Only negatives I would mention are that mine kangarooed at low throttle openings in traffic etc. I had it re-mapped by the Two Steves and this improved it but didn't totally cure it. Mine also understeered generally and I probably ran it with too high a ride height as I hated hitting the sump. It did seem much more prone to grounding than my 620R even though I run that much lower.
Mine also wore a hole in the bonnet due to a clip on the air filter being incorrectly fitted during a service at CC. I think this was also partly because I had the engine as high as possible to improve the ground clearance.
When I went abroad in mine I was always slightly paranoid about punctures as the tyres are hard to find, especially the rears. I think it is only Avon who make them in that articular size.
Like you, when I purchased my CSR I though I needed an SV but now I have got used to an S3 I generally prefer the fit of the smaller car.
I certainly wouldn't worry about getting a 260bhp Caterham as your first caterham. The power delivery is very linear and I never found it to be intimidating.
Edited by jimhcat on Wednesday 28th March 12:29
Edited by jimhcat on Wednesday 28th March 12:31
Jmracing66 said:
So did you decide to buy the CSR ?
I like it very much but it's too expensive! Put a very fair offer in but was rejected, and I can't go any higher 👎🏻Shame really, but will visit some other dealers who have plenty of SV chassis cars with a wide range of power outputs and see what takes my fancy!Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff