Please help with K-series starting issue... 'ring trip soon!
Discussion
Evening guys, really hoping you can help on this one.
I've got a '98 K series engined car which is playing up. Annoyingly with these electrical issues it's not a consistent problem - which in a way frustrates me more!
The car has decided it doesn't want to start. The battery is quite new and always hooked up to a conditioner - the green light suggests it's good.
So, ignition on, twist the FIA key and nothing. No starter motor just click, click, nothing.
Last night I'm pottering around the garage and give it a try. Turn on the ignition and then turn on the lights - just wanted to double check the battery is not flat. As I turn on the lights, I hear the fuel system prime up. Hit the starter and on the button it fires into life! It's late so I shut it down but go inside happy yet confused.
So this morning I go out again. Ignition, FIA key, hear the fuel system prime and you guessed it - fires into life.
And at 10am that was the last time it would. From that point onwards it's just dead.
I've done some reading about the click, click issue. As I understand it the issue is often either excessive heat, a sticky starter solenoid or not enough juice making it's way to the starter motor.
But I'm not sure I think this is the issue? For a start this is cold starting issue - no idea about hot. And when I've heard the fuel pump prime the system it fires the starter motor instantly.
When I don't hear the fuel system prime, the starter doesn't even clunk. The starter button just clicks.
Another clue: I've now taken the FIA cut off switch out and waiting for a replacement to arrive. Last year it was starting to play up. It should engage with a 90 degree twist, but I noticed that at 90 degrees it would cut out, so I had to twist it to about 70-80 degrees to ensure it was making the connection.
Hoping that a new cut off will solve it, but I'm not hopeful from some reason. Losing a bit of faith in the car.
'Ring trip booked for second weekend in April. The countdown is on!
Any thoughts and pointers would be really appreciated. I've learnt some spanner and hammer jobs, but I'm not too confident yet with electrics - but willing to learn!
I've got a '98 K series engined car which is playing up. Annoyingly with these electrical issues it's not a consistent problem - which in a way frustrates me more!
The car has decided it doesn't want to start. The battery is quite new and always hooked up to a conditioner - the green light suggests it's good.
So, ignition on, twist the FIA key and nothing. No starter motor just click, click, nothing.
Last night I'm pottering around the garage and give it a try. Turn on the ignition and then turn on the lights - just wanted to double check the battery is not flat. As I turn on the lights, I hear the fuel system prime up. Hit the starter and on the button it fires into life! It's late so I shut it down but go inside happy yet confused.
So this morning I go out again. Ignition, FIA key, hear the fuel system prime and you guessed it - fires into life.
And at 10am that was the last time it would. From that point onwards it's just dead.
I've done some reading about the click, click issue. As I understand it the issue is often either excessive heat, a sticky starter solenoid or not enough juice making it's way to the starter motor.
But I'm not sure I think this is the issue? For a start this is cold starting issue - no idea about hot. And when I've heard the fuel pump prime the system it fires the starter motor instantly.
When I don't hear the fuel system prime, the starter doesn't even clunk. The starter button just clicks.
Another clue: I've now taken the FIA cut off switch out and waiting for a replacement to arrive. Last year it was starting to play up. It should engage with a 90 degree twist, but I noticed that at 90 degrees it would cut out, so I had to twist it to about 70-80 degrees to ensure it was making the connection.
Hoping that a new cut off will solve it, but I'm not hopeful from some reason. Losing a bit of faith in the car.
'Ring trip booked for second weekend in April. The countdown is on!
Any thoughts and pointers would be really appreciated. I've learnt some spanner and hammer jobs, but I'm not too confident yet with electrics - but willing to learn!
When I had the k starter klik, I headed it with the solenoid mod. However before that I wired in a fly lead to activate the solenoid direct from the battery.
I took a length of wire and put one of those piggy back spade connectors on it. One that plugs into a spade and has another spade on it. So plug that into the solenoid and plug the original solenoid spade connector onto it.
Then run the wire up to near the + terminal of the battery. Make sure it can't touch the battery or earth itself by accident. When you get the solenoid click and no start, leap out, whip off the bonnet, push the bare end of the wire on the positive and start she will.
Very bodgy, get you out of trouble, short term solution. You will know if the problem is the k-klick one.
Hth
Bert
I took a length of wire and put one of those piggy back spade connectors on it. One that plugs into a spade and has another spade on it. So plug that into the solenoid and plug the original solenoid spade connector onto it.
Then run the wire up to near the + terminal of the battery. Make sure it can't touch the battery or earth itself by accident. When you get the solenoid click and no start, leap out, whip off the bonnet, push the bare end of the wire on the positive and start she will.
Very bodgy, get you out of trouble, short term solution. You will know if the problem is the k-klick one.
Hth
Bert
This is what I meant...
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/7187738/?gr...
And finally, just make sure it's all together properly and insulated so it doesn't short accidently.
Bert
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/products/7187738/?gr...
And finally, just make sure it's all together properly and insulated so it doesn't short accidently.
Bert
I've had 2 K series cars and this has been a problem on both of them. The world's starter motor and heavy duty cable suppliers are richer men thanks to my various efforts to fix it.
If you're not hearing the fuel system prime then check the ECU 20A fuse.
If you are getting that to work but just a click from the solenoid then try putting the car in gear and rock it back and forwards with a finger on the starter button to engage the solenoid and unstick it. (Don't do this in the garage as it may start the car with disastrous consequences)
This is a temporary fix just to get it going, really you want to be following Bert's advice and or looking at new starters.
If you're not hearing the fuel system prime then check the ECU 20A fuse.
If you are getting that to work but just a click from the solenoid then try putting the car in gear and rock it back and forwards with a finger on the starter button to engage the solenoid and unstick it. (Don't do this in the garage as it may start the car with disastrous consequences)
This is a temporary fix just to get it going, really you want to be following Bert's advice and or looking at new starters.
Matt UK said:
The car has decided it doesn't want to start. The battery is quite new and always hooked up to a conditioner - the green light suggests it's good.
So, ignition on, twist the FIA key and nothing. No starter motor just click, click, nothing.
You've got the famous "K Click".So, ignition on, twist the FIA key and nothing. No starter motor just click, click, nothing.
Go to your nearest Caterham specialist and they will wire in a relay to supply 12v to the starter solenoid. (Basically)
Edited by justleanitupabit on Tuesday 15th March 14:49
IMO it's not the k click at all. The click would never cause the fuel pump to not prime.
Op, when it is dead, it it totally dead? I.e no electric? No lights? If so, FIA switch.
If it's only partly dead, I'd be chasing bad connections down the ignition on the live side, and any earths that are in that awful "does it all" box that you semi bypass with the relay mod.
This all presumes you don't have an immobiliser - which could also be on the fitz?
Op, when it is dead, it it totally dead? I.e no electric? No lights? If so, FIA switch.
If it's only partly dead, I'd be chasing bad connections down the ignition on the live side, and any earths that are in that awful "does it all" box that you semi bypass with the relay mod.
This all presumes you don't have an immobiliser - which could also be on the fitz?
Some Gump said:
IMO it's not the k click at all. The click would never cause the fuel pump to not prime.
Op, when it is dead, it it totally dead? I.e no electric? No lights? If so, FIA switch.
If it's only partly dead, I'd be chasing bad connections down the ignition on the live side, and any earths that are in that awful "does it all" box that you semi bypass with the relay mod.
This all presumes you don't have an immobiliser - which could also be on the fitz?
Hence the Bertish fly-lead bodge to see if it is indeed the k-klickOp, when it is dead, it it totally dead? I.e no electric? No lights? If so, FIA switch.
If it's only partly dead, I'd be chasing bad connections down the ignition on the live side, and any earths that are in that awful "does it all" box that you semi bypass with the relay mod.
This all presumes you don't have an immobiliser - which could also be on the fitz?
I agree with Some Gump. If it were the k-click problem then you would hear the pump prime and a click when you try and start the car (there is a clue in the name!).
Does anything work? Lights, needles on the rev counter, immobiliser, horn? If it doesn't, then you have a connection problem to your battery - the FIA switch is a likely culprit from your description, but don't forget to check the earth lead as well.
If some power is getting through, then if you have more than one lead going to the positive terminal it could still be the FIA switch, but otherwise you are looking for a bad connection on the ignition circuit, including the wires to the ignition switch.
Have you been tinkering anywhere on the car to fix other issues?
Steve
Does anything work? Lights, needles on the rev counter, immobiliser, horn? If it doesn't, then you have a connection problem to your battery - the FIA switch is a likely culprit from your description, but don't forget to check the earth lead as well.
If some power is getting through, then if you have more than one lead going to the positive terminal it could still be the FIA switch, but otherwise you are looking for a bad connection on the ignition circuit, including the wires to the ignition switch.
Have you been tinkering anywhere on the car to fix other issues?
Steve
sjmmarsh said:
I agree with Some Gump. If it were the k-click problem then you would hear the pump prime and a click when you try and start the car (there is a clue in the name!).
Does anything work? Lights, needles on the rev counter, immobiliser, horn? If it doesn't, then you have a connection problem to your battery - the FIA switch is a likely culprit from your description, but don't forget to check the earth lead as well.
If some power is getting through, then if you have more than one lead going to the positive terminal it could still be the FIA switch, but otherwise you are looking for a bad connection on the ignition circuit, including the wires to the ignition switch.
Have you been tinkering anywhere on the car to fix other issues?
Steve
Yes I must admit having reread the OP its not clear - he mentions hearing a click etc but that is probably just the ignition barrel, so yeah, check the FIA switch, then for K click..... Does anything work? Lights, needles on the rev counter, immobiliser, horn? If it doesn't, then you have a connection problem to your battery - the FIA switch is a likely culprit from your description, but don't forget to check the earth lead as well.
If some power is getting through, then if you have more than one lead going to the positive terminal it could still be the FIA switch, but otherwise you are looking for a bad connection on the ignition circuit, including the wires to the ignition switch.
Have you been tinkering anywhere on the car to fix other issues?
Steve
Update.
I've switch out the FIA cut off for a new one and it seems to have solved the problem!
I've tried it a few times now and it seems to work perfectly. Ignition, pimp primes, starter engages and up and running.
In the garage so only cold starts though and then shut down. Will get it nice and hot and try again. To be fair the car has never had a hot start problem. Fingers crossed.
Thanks for your replies, very much appreciated. And if I do get the dreaded hot k click I now know what to do.
I've switch out the FIA cut off for a new one and it seems to have solved the problem!
I've tried it a few times now and it seems to work perfectly. Ignition, pimp primes, starter engages and up and running.
In the garage so only cold starts though and then shut down. Will get it nice and hot and try again. To be fair the car has never had a hot start problem. Fingers crossed.
Thanks for your replies, very much appreciated. And if I do get the dreaded hot k click I now know what to do.
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