R400 - further thoughts (after a whole 538 miles!)
Discussion
Having trod with more ginger than an entire McVitie's production line, I decided to stretch the pilchard's admittedly tiny legs just an hour or so ago (so 'the buzz' is still fresh).
The 4000 rpm ceiling, studiously observed, had become tedious and so today I opened it up some more.
On the m-way, we saw 108 flash up and I was impressed with the overall sense of stability, despite the mild buffetting.
I haven't had the first service yet (anytime soon, however) so I'm not sure whether the car being on it's 'original juices' and/or the fact that it's still loosening up have anything to do with this but it's feeling more progressive than I recall on the test drives: for a novice, however, that's probably no bad thing and anyhow, when the plunger is down far enough, it's like many other performance car cam changes where a slight kick (almost) cuts in and you spear orf at an even more, indecent lick.
It was hugely satisfying to belligerently carve up an entire flotilla of mid and outer lane morons, having dropped to 5th and then backing off a little to induce some glorious rap-ap-baarp! The damn thing's not even decatalysed so when that eventually happens, well, to quote His Arnieship, "all f@cking hell's gonna break loose!"
Indeed, although keeping things still no more than 5500 with odd 6000 rpm excursion, I was blown away by the passing ability on a quick bit of B road (any gap'll do, seemingly) and a couple of easily vapourized dual c-ways.
And that's the scary thing, still 2000 rpm to come...
Going back to the progressive comment: although I was quickly racking up 85-90 on the readout, these things must be pretty well resolved for something so (frankly) flimsy looking. Any time I applied medium hoof, it didn't feel massively threatening; again, I suspect the fireworks are maybe a downshift or two and a couple of thousand revs away?
Now, a question, for all you seasoned 'Ramists: when the tail does go, just how easy do you think I will find recovery? I've only had a couple of low speed shennanigans thus far which were amazingly easy to haul back but at say 50-70, what'd be the chances? And how much oversteer (honestly) do you guys experience/provoke on a typical nip out to the shops and back, as it were?
Ultimately, it's electrifying and like the best blasts in the beetle, I came back with an enormous grin and great fondness for the little bugger: I really can't wait for summer to dry things up a bit then I can risk a few more liberties and I'll take the advice of eminent connoiseurs of the boudois to date, namely, that thing of having everything balanced with you sat in the thing (can they do this at the Liverpool service place?)
Btw, my little drive just now took place in the rain: it's true what they say about staying dry if you maintain at least 60...
Brilliant.
P.S. Congrats to Danny on his new R500 - I dread to think! (Having said that, probably a very well fed Persian, compared to his last car.)
The 4000 rpm ceiling, studiously observed, had become tedious and so today I opened it up some more.
On the m-way, we saw 108 flash up and I was impressed with the overall sense of stability, despite the mild buffetting.
I haven't had the first service yet (anytime soon, however) so I'm not sure whether the car being on it's 'original juices' and/or the fact that it's still loosening up have anything to do with this but it's feeling more progressive than I recall on the test drives: for a novice, however, that's probably no bad thing and anyhow, when the plunger is down far enough, it's like many other performance car cam changes where a slight kick (almost) cuts in and you spear orf at an even more, indecent lick.
It was hugely satisfying to belligerently carve up an entire flotilla of mid and outer lane morons, having dropped to 5th and then backing off a little to induce some glorious rap-ap-baarp! The damn thing's not even decatalysed so when that eventually happens, well, to quote His Arnieship, "all f@cking hell's gonna break loose!"
Indeed, although keeping things still no more than 5500 with odd 6000 rpm excursion, I was blown away by the passing ability on a quick bit of B road (any gap'll do, seemingly) and a couple of easily vapourized dual c-ways.
And that's the scary thing, still 2000 rpm to come...
Going back to the progressive comment: although I was quickly racking up 85-90 on the readout, these things must be pretty well resolved for something so (frankly) flimsy looking. Any time I applied medium hoof, it didn't feel massively threatening; again, I suspect the fireworks are maybe a downshift or two and a couple of thousand revs away?
Now, a question, for all you seasoned 'Ramists: when the tail does go, just how easy do you think I will find recovery? I've only had a couple of low speed shennanigans thus far which were amazingly easy to haul back but at say 50-70, what'd be the chances? And how much oversteer (honestly) do you guys experience/provoke on a typical nip out to the shops and back, as it were?
Ultimately, it's electrifying and like the best blasts in the beetle, I came back with an enormous grin and great fondness for the little bugger: I really can't wait for summer to dry things up a bit then I can risk a few more liberties and I'll take the advice of eminent connoiseurs of the boudois to date, namely, that thing of having everything balanced with you sat in the thing (can they do this at the Liverpool service place?)
Btw, my little drive just now took place in the rain: it's true what they say about staying dry if you maintain at least 60...
Brilliant.
P.S. Congrats to Danny on his new R500 - I dread to think! (Having said that, probably a very well fed Persian, compared to his last car.)
I thought you were going to say you'd flogged it!
By "progressiveness", I assume you mean of throttle?
It's possble the linkage isn't set up perfectly, and might be worth getting it looked at during the service.
That said, the throttle action in the R500 I had was horribly light and hair trigger. In something with such a free revving, powerful engine, and a stiff chassis and not much footwell space, this was sometimes more than a little unnerving.
My old faithful, on the other hand, has a totally different throttle set up and much more weight to it. This I prefer, as it means I have to deliberately squirt the throttle.
Also, these cars don't really get going until you're over 4k revs, so perhaps you having to limit the revs is fooling your senses in comparison with the test drive?
The last 2k is really where the fun starts. So you can look forward to that
When it's wet/icy, taking liberties on public roads is not to be advised. In the dry, you can get away with an awful lot - quick, direct and communicative steering is a godsend. But it's also worth being very mindful of a whole new speed dimension. You get to big speeds very quickly, and can go round corners mighty quickly too. Catching slides at high speed needs full concentration and quick reactions.
All this is best practiced on track.
The Liverpool service agents would be able to flat floor it I would have thought, but why not ask at your local area meet (or on Blatchat) for recommendations? Agents that run race teams would be my preference for this job...
Really glad you're enjoying the car and haven't sold it
By "progressiveness", I assume you mean of throttle?
It's possble the linkage isn't set up perfectly, and might be worth getting it looked at during the service.
That said, the throttle action in the R500 I had was horribly light and hair trigger. In something with such a free revving, powerful engine, and a stiff chassis and not much footwell space, this was sometimes more than a little unnerving.
My old faithful, on the other hand, has a totally different throttle set up and much more weight to it. This I prefer, as it means I have to deliberately squirt the throttle.
Also, these cars don't really get going until you're over 4k revs, so perhaps you having to limit the revs is fooling your senses in comparison with the test drive?
The last 2k is really where the fun starts. So you can look forward to that
When it's wet/icy, taking liberties on public roads is not to be advised. In the dry, you can get away with an awful lot - quick, direct and communicative steering is a godsend. But it's also worth being very mindful of a whole new speed dimension. You get to big speeds very quickly, and can go round corners mighty quickly too. Catching slides at high speed needs full concentration and quick reactions.
All this is best practiced on track.
The Liverpool service agents would be able to flat floor it I would have thought, but why not ask at your local area meet (or on Blatchat) for recommendations? Agents that run race teams would be my preference for this job...
Really glad you're enjoying the car and haven't sold it
Glad you are enjoying 
your wee beastie and has only brought home how much I miss not having mine around at the moment 
Regarding the 'progressiveness' factor - you will find that each and every Caterham is different to drive to be honest.
Having driven numerous R300/400's in the past I can honestly say that each one felt subtley different in its handling characteristics - but all very enjoyable
The best thing to do is to speak to Caterham or one of the 7 'specialists' and tell them how you want the car to feel on the road/track. Be it more understeer, oversteer, neutrality etc it can be done.
I had my R300 'fiddled' with a fair bit before I was 100% happy with the but fortunately the R400 was spot on from day one 
Oversteer is ALWAYS there for the taking
but you have to be very, very quick in your responses to stop it from getting out of hand.
The problem (if you can call it that) is that 7's have extremely direct controls and a very short wheelbase so it can make it feel quite snappy at first
As mentioned here it is not best to practice your technique on the road
but on a 7's natural habitat - the racetrack!
So when are you going to post some pics of the 7?
your wee beastie and has only brought home how much I miss not having mine around at the moment Regarding the 'progressiveness' factor - you will find that each and every Caterham is different to drive to be honest.
Having driven numerous R300/400's in the past I can honestly say that each one felt subtley different in its handling characteristics - but all very enjoyable
The best thing to do is to speak to Caterham or one of the 7 'specialists' and tell them how you want the car to feel on the road/track. Be it more understeer, oversteer, neutrality etc it can be done. I had my R300 'fiddled' with a fair bit before I was 100% happy with the
but fortunately the R400 was spot on from day one Oversteer is ALWAYS there for the taking
but you have to be very, very quick in your responses to stop it from getting out of hand. The problem (if you can call it that) is that 7's have extremely direct controls and a very short wheelbase so it can make it feel quite snappy at first
As mentioned here it is not best to practice your technique on the road
but on a 7's natural habitat - the racetrack! So when are you going to post some pics of the 7?
Glad to hear another new owners enjoying his toy.
I would echo the comments below, you do not want to be practicing your high speed (>60mph) on the limit car control on the road unless you fancy testing the crash resistance as well
Get youself along to either an Airfiled day (Motorsports events have a number) or somewhere like bedford autodrome which is a safe environment to deliberately overstep the mark.
Danny's new car, yet to see it but the specc does look appealing
I would echo the comments below, you do not want to be practicing your high speed (>60mph) on the limit car control on the road unless you fancy testing the crash resistance as well
Get youself along to either an Airfiled day (Motorsports events have a number) or somewhere like bedford autodrome which is a safe environment to deliberately overstep the mark.
Danny's new car, yet to see it but the specc does look appealing
All good points - I'll also add that the throttle action in Murph's car is now far more progressive than it was before - still nicely weighted though and miles better than an out of the box R400 by all accounts.
Secondly, my SLR didn't loosen up properly until it hit 6,000 miles at which point warp factor 10 could be (and was) attained regularly. My windscreened SLR ran out of puff at a (Stack) indicated 127 mph - couldn't get anything more out of it - on the redline in 6th - 8,000 RPM.
Finally, if you get your car sideways at 70, then hats off if you retrieve it - I only took liberties with my car once an ended up with a bent rim - could have been a lot worse.
Secondly, my SLR didn't loosen up properly until it hit 6,000 miles at which point warp factor 10 could be (and was) attained regularly. My windscreened SLR ran out of puff at a (Stack) indicated 127 mph - couldn't get anything more out of it - on the redline in 6th - 8,000 RPM.
Finally, if you get your car sideways at 70, then hats off if you retrieve it - I only took liberties with my car once an ended up with a bent rim - could have been a lot worse.
I'd certainly agree with Ruby about the mileage, my R400 has gone into 5 figures now and is well and truly loosened up (140 with aeroscreen)
As regards the sliding issue, it is perfectly 'acceptable' to slide at 70mph plus sorry
but you've got to be one step ahead of the car and be ready with the lock almost before it slides 
Not something I would advocate obviously but once mastered there is nothing better
The best thing is to practice off the queens highway
with nothing to hit if it all goes wrong!Ruby to thank for the linkage side
Please, please be very careful on public roads at this time of year. I've been noticing a lot of forum posts (various places) about people having accidents in these cars of late.
They are truly wonderful machines, but the laws of physics and human reaction times don't always gel!
For example, you can be making nice progress only to clip a kerb or other irregularity hidden under leaves or something. All the direct controls might be able to do here is stop you writing it off or hurting yourself and your passenger (though the red face is still there to be had)
Similarly, the roads can often be covered in all sorts of slimey shite that is nigh on impossible to see until you're on it at a compromised slip angle.
Enjoy these cars, for there is no better thrill than having a blat on a cold day. Just be careful out there!
Saw my first 7 on the streets of Tokyo last Sunday. First time I've been homesick, not helped by me being sat in a pub having roast Sunday lunch (with Yorkshire puddings!), watching footy on TV and having a beer - it was the noise that made me stare out the window
Please, please be very careful on public roads at this time of year. I've been noticing a lot of forum posts (various places) about people having accidents in these cars of late.
They are truly wonderful machines, but the laws of physics and human reaction times don't always gel!
For example, you can be making nice progress only to clip a kerb or other irregularity hidden under leaves or something. All the direct controls might be able to do here is stop you writing it off or hurting yourself and your passenger (though the red face is still there to be had)
Similarly, the roads can often be covered in all sorts of slimey shite that is nigh on impossible to see until you're on it at a compromised slip angle.
Enjoy these cars, for there is no better thrill than having a blat on a cold day. Just be careful out there!
Saw my first 7 on the streets of Tokyo last Sunday. First time I've been homesick, not helped by me being sat in a pub having roast Sunday lunch (with Yorkshire puddings!), watching footy on TV and having a beer - it was the noise that made me stare out the window
derestrictor said:538 miles! Pathetic! In two weeks, I've done just over 850 miles now
P.S. Congrats to Danny on his new R500 - I dread to think! (Having said that, probably a very well fed Persian, compared to his last car.)
. Some blatting about, trip up to Derby for RaceCo exhaust, trip down to Rainham for a quick map tweak, then up to Rockingham for first trackday. With 190lbft from 4000rpm and 250bhp and electric throttle response, it's rather fun to slide around with! Must be on of the easiest cars to goon about in - but needs respect on damp roads, even in top gear. Very happy indeed with it! 
dannylt said:
P.S. Congrats to Danny on his new R500 - I dread to think! (Having said that, probably a very well fed Persian, compared to his last car.)
538 miles! Pathetic! In two weeks, I've done just over 850 miles now
It doesn't matter what you are, or what you do, in life.
There is always and there will always be, at least one loon loonier than thou.
250bhp, in these things: I mean, it's just DERANGED!!!
As I said, congrats (you pyscho).
derestrictor said:
derestrictor said:
P.S. Congrats to Danny on his new R500 - I dread to think! (Having said that, probably a very well fed Persian, compared to his last car.)
538 miles! Pathetic! In two weeks, I've done just over 850 miles now
It doesn't matter what you are, or what you do, in life.
There is always and there will always be, at least one loon loonier than thou.
250bhp, in these things: I mean, it's just DERANGED!!!
As I said, congrats (you pyscho).
Indeed and Danny has kindly offered me the opportunity to try his 250bhp Duratec back to back with my 230bhp Duratec at the next trackday we do
I've been quoted £4K to upgrade my 2.0l Duratec to a 260bhp 2.3l or I could convert my 2.0l to 'sprint spec' and get 290bhp @9,000rpm
Still might be an idea to learn how to drive what I've already got
dannylt said:
The best thing is not the headline power though - it's the huge torque - 190lbft from 5000 to 6500 - I let Alex have a go at Rockingham - I think he quite liked it too.
Yes, superb! Felt like a cross between my Loconinja and my Griff; Nimble and adjustable, but with LOADS of grunt! A fantastic driving machine.
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