Suspension for road and track day
Discussion
Hi all. After some advice.
I have had my Caterham (an ex-racing R400) for a few years now. I have used it for track days, normally trailered.
I fancy using it on road too, and have obtained a screen which makes it ok without a helmet.
Problem is, the ride is so hard, it is frankly unbearable on our British roads. Uncomfortable, and also not very much fun crashing and bouncing around. Plus, SWMBO will hate it.
Is it possible to get a set-up that will be just as good on track but will allow road use too?
Any wisdom gratefully accepted!
I have had my Caterham (an ex-racing R400) for a few years now. I have used it for track days, normally trailered.
I fancy using it on road too, and have obtained a screen which makes it ok without a helmet.
Problem is, the ride is so hard, it is frankly unbearable on our British roads. Uncomfortable, and also not very much fun crashing and bouncing around. Plus, SWMBO will hate it.
Is it possible to get a set-up that will be just as good on track but will allow road use too?
Any wisdom gratefully accepted!
Yes it's a K. The Nitrons are the Meteor ones with the Aurok valves, springs are 225 front and 130) rear (from memory, I can check in the morning). I run a suspension setup that is a bit track biased but not as much as a race car - flat floored with 75mm under the sump, 1.75 degrees neg camber on the front, 1mm toe out (total) and caster is 2 washers either side (std setting). For track I start at about 8 clicks from full hard and work from there, usually softening the front a little more. For road I soften off a bit more than that but I can't remember specifically as I'm not too fussy - as long as it feels comfortable on bumpy surfaces then it's soft enough. I'm running ZZRs (6" front 8" rear) or sometimes CR500s. I'm more fussy about how it feels on track than I am on road as I rarely use it on the road at the moment and when I do I'm never pushing for limits.
I run my Cat on the road and track, I find a little more ride height and rake, leaning towards the front help a lot with the skipping and braking,
I still run 2.5neg camber at front and rear, I also run a softer setting for the drive there, then adjust at the track. Downside of ride height and rake increase is wheelspin out of tight corners, but then I am running with 300bhp.
That's with Avo 3way shocks.
I still run 2.5neg camber at front and rear, I also run a softer setting for the drive there, then adjust at the track. Downside of ride height and rake increase is wheelspin out of tight corners, but then I am running with 300bhp.
That's with Avo 3way shocks.
I have found that the need to increase the rake is a trait of many dampers out there for Caterhams.
Since getting our own dyno and playing with the valving of various makes and spec dampers I have consistently lowered the rake giving additional drive and grip whilst not inducing understeer in any way.
The Nitron by Aurok spec is long gone and I have made 2 additional upgrades since that original spec. I now think they are better balanced and the click adjustment will be more equal front to rear. I have already serviced a few sets of those early adopters and they can feel the change and think its positive.
If anyone wants my set up guide they can call or email me and I will send it. I also have my current recommendations guide available which talks through all the options.
Anyone who has my dampers even if they have bought them "used" gets free support and set up advice always - for ever. Don't be shy its just a phone call and maybe just maybe I can sort out any set up over the phone.
Since getting our own dyno and playing with the valving of various makes and spec dampers I have consistently lowered the rake giving additional drive and grip whilst not inducing understeer in any way.
The Nitron by Aurok spec is long gone and I have made 2 additional upgrades since that original spec. I now think they are better balanced and the click adjustment will be more equal front to rear. I have already serviced a few sets of those early adopters and they can feel the change and think its positive.
If anyone wants my set up guide they can call or email me and I will send it. I also have my current recommendations guide available which talks through all the options.
Anyone who has my dampers even if they have bought them "used" gets free support and set up advice always - for ever. Don't be shy its just a phone call and maybe just maybe I can sort out any set up over the phone.
SimonRogers said:
Since getting our own dyno and playing with the valving of various makes and spec dampers I have consistently lowered the rake giving additional drive and grip whilst not inducing understeer in any way.
The Nitron by Aurok spec is long gone and I have made 2 additional upgrades since that original spec. I now think they are better balanced and the click adjustment will be more equal front to rear. I have already serviced a few sets of those early adopters and they can feel the change and think its positive.
Simon, hi. Are you able to post any hysteresis plots from your damper dyno showing the improvement your valving mods make? What would be a rough estimate of the cost of a service/upgrade on a set of 1-way (stock) Nitrons?The Nitron by Aurok spec is long gone and I have made 2 additional upgrades since that original spec. I now think they are better balanced and the click adjustment will be more equal front to rear. I have already serviced a few sets of those early adopters and they can feel the change and think its positive.
Fergus - I am not changing the way the damper is made - you won't see much difference in the hysteresis as this will be largely down to the inherent design etc.
What I believe I bring is an understanding of the car from a drivers point of view and I have therefore translated that to the valving required in the damper.
There are all sorts of plots available as an output from the dyno but as you will understand I within reason keep those close to my chest given the investment needed to purchase the dyno and time spent learning and playing with shim stacks.
I am more than happy to talk generally though and that is that we stiffen up the compression considerably and soften the rebound values by approx 70% - that's how far out I think they are and most of those who use the settings would concur I hope. Not seen a post to the contrary from someone who has used them.
Along with the Meteor Spec valving though you have to consider that most high end brands recommend servicing their dampers every 2 years. In my experience now having service a wide variety of dampers and manufacturers I can only agree. The damper has a piston, piston ring, valves, seals etc and they are all in contact with each other - you can only imagine the condition of the oil after thousands of miles even if on a trailer for some of those. The engine may not have been running but the car will have.
In my opinion the Nitrons must be serviced at the very very latest every 3 years. Its imperative to check the pressure of the Nitrogen and to do this they have to be disassembled. There is a video of me opening up a Nitron on my website.
A service costs the same as it would with Nitron £95/damper for a full service. I would then charge £60 for my valving if it was wanted. (I think its currently reduced to £420.00 + vat total on the website).
It really is a must.
What I believe I bring is an understanding of the car from a drivers point of view and I have therefore translated that to the valving required in the damper.
There are all sorts of plots available as an output from the dyno but as you will understand I within reason keep those close to my chest given the investment needed to purchase the dyno and time spent learning and playing with shim stacks.
I am more than happy to talk generally though and that is that we stiffen up the compression considerably and soften the rebound values by approx 70% - that's how far out I think they are and most of those who use the settings would concur I hope. Not seen a post to the contrary from someone who has used them.
Along with the Meteor Spec valving though you have to consider that most high end brands recommend servicing their dampers every 2 years. In my experience now having service a wide variety of dampers and manufacturers I can only agree. The damper has a piston, piston ring, valves, seals etc and they are all in contact with each other - you can only imagine the condition of the oil after thousands of miles even if on a trailer for some of those. The engine may not have been running but the car will have.
In my opinion the Nitrons must be serviced at the very very latest every 3 years. Its imperative to check the pressure of the Nitrogen and to do this they have to be disassembled. There is a video of me opening up a Nitron on my website.
A service costs the same as it would with Nitron £95/damper for a full service. I would then charge £60 for my valving if it was wanted. (I think its currently reduced to £420.00 + vat total on the website).
It really is a must.
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