Engine options
Discussion
As most of the intelligent world I would love to have a Caterham, Specifically a CSR. I visited the factory a few years ago and just that caused a loss of judgement in my life.
The question I have is: Has anyone put a Honda F20C or F22C engine in a Caterham or better yet, a CSR? In the states, a Honda engine is far easier to deal with than a Cosworth.
The answer may be that the F series Honda engine and transmission may be too big and heavy. I've never had the opportunity to see a Caterham and an S2000 side by side to even make a passing judgement.
The question I have is: Has anyone put a Honda F20C or F22C engine in a Caterham or better yet, a CSR? In the states, a Honda engine is far easier to deal with than a Cosworth.
The answer may be that the F series Honda engine and transmission may be too big and heavy. I've never had the opportunity to see a Caterham and an S2000 side by side to even make a passing judgement.
Welcome! Hopefully someone will be able to answer your question convincingly. All I can say is that I seem to recall seeing a Westfield or other 7-type car with the S2000 engine and also that The CSR has a wider body and therefore engine bay than the standard seven. I suspect that the engine will physically fit. Not sure the transmission tunnel would accomodate the Honda gearbox but it must be possible to fit the Caterham 'box to the Honda motor somehow, with some custom fabrication.
I have seen an s3 7 with a Honda type r engine but not sure from wich type of Honda. I have heard the of the Honda engines being very tall which would make the sump very close to the ground in the 7. The way to go about it would be to dry sump it and sit the engine as low as possible to clear the bonnet. If you manage to look at a k series 7 they are even quite tall and the sump sits quite low with them.
I can't see the transmission being a big deal as people shoe horn v8's in westies and 7's and they have massive bell housings.
I think the U.S use the duratec ford engine so think about that option.
I can't see the transmission being a big deal as people shoe horn v8's in westies and 7's and they have massive bell housings.
I think the U.S use the duratec ford engine so think about that option.
Edited by adsvx220 on Wednesday 15th February 18:07
Rotating the engine would cause all sorts of problems e.g the gearbox would have to be repositioned so the gearstick lines up with the hole in the tunnel. May not be a big job to someone in the know how. Also still don't think the sv would be wide enough to rotate it enough to be any help.
having driven both in 7"s I would never remove a duratec and replace with the honda!
if you do go down that route , s2k motors have been fitted to quite a few westys, they are tall but will go in with standard sumps much but better with dry sump, gearing is an issue, the standard 6 speed box has poor ratios, my pal tried a few diff ratio changes and never got it right. he fitted his on a new build and will back me up given the choice again would go duratec everytime, fitting Honda worked out very expensive and to be quite honest the performance despite 240bhp and 9,000 revs was not brilliant on track and I didnt like it on the road at all , was gutless unless you were screaming the life out of it.
if you do go down that route , s2k motors have been fitted to quite a few westys, they are tall but will go in with standard sumps much but better with dry sump, gearing is an issue, the standard 6 speed box has poor ratios, my pal tried a few diff ratio changes and never got it right. he fitted his on a new build and will back me up given the choice again would go duratec everytime, fitting Honda worked out very expensive and to be quite honest the performance despite 240bhp and 9,000 revs was not brilliant on track and I didnt like it on the road at all , was gutless unless you were screaming the life out of it.
Edited by JeffC on Wednesday 15th February 20:28
ARE (you can guess what that stands for) cast a very good dry sump pan for the F20/F22 over your side of the pond for resonable $ Over here a couple of other,s are also available.
A few bellhousings are available to mate to a Ford pattern
Out of interest a 1.8 K with dry sump is 560mm total height an F20 with dry sump 580mm, the F20 is also longer and heavy compared to a K
An install in a S3 chassis would need serious chassis mods as to install the F20 the way it was intended to get the sump/base of block level means laying the engine over to the right as in a S2K. This puts the centre of no 4 exhaust port actually kissing the engine bay diaganol. But could well be an easy task in a CSR especially if it is a left hand drive chassis. But as Jeff says why would you replace a Ford durabang with a Honda lump
ps I have assumed the original posting was from the USA for some reason
A few bellhousings are available to mate to a Ford pattern
Out of interest a 1.8 K with dry sump is 560mm total height an F20 with dry sump 580mm, the F20 is also longer and heavy compared to a K
An install in a S3 chassis would need serious chassis mods as to install the F20 the way it was intended to get the sump/base of block level means laying the engine over to the right as in a S2K. This puts the centre of no 4 exhaust port actually kissing the engine bay diaganol. But could well be an easy task in a CSR especially if it is a left hand drive chassis. But as Jeff says why would you replace a Ford durabang with a Honda lump
ps I have assumed the original posting was from the USA for some reason
Edited by Honda Rush on Thursday 16th February 08:44
AbitNutz said:
The question I have is: Has anyone put a Honda F20C or F22C engine in a Caterham or better yet, a CSR? In the states, a Honda engine is far easier to deal with than a Cosworth.
There is no one out there that I know I has tried a Caterham and a s2000 engine. However, there is a USA7s member in Canada working through putting one in a Birkin. Based on the initial photos it looks like it is very tight but will work. Refer this link and specifically the flickr photolink within it.http://www.usa7s.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4125&...
If he can do it in a Birkin then it should with a lot of fettling be possible in a CSR as the chassis is about the same height.
However, I would suggest that Duratecs are more plug and play than the s2000 engine. You would be off on your own to work out the problems you will come up against (engine mounts, body mods, chassis mods, gearbox, propshaft, wiring harness, ECU, etc). The WCM Ultralite guys on USA7s are big users of the S2000 so that would be a resource but they cannot help you with everything.
I have a Cosworth in my CSR and think it is great (albeit way way too expenisve to buy now) and very easy to live with.
Stuart Faulds did a lovely job on one. Said he'd never do it again though.
http://www.fauldsport.com/
http://www.fauldsport.com/
sfaulds said:
We did a K20A (Civic Type R), and yes, I have turned down offers to do more. I can't think of a single good reason why you'd choose one over a Duratec now.
What are the cost implications between both. Is a high power duratec not a dearer option than a Honda, say for 280hp, or does the difference in cost go towards other specific items used in the build that cost more than duratec items, bellhousings, mounts, bespoke stuff?This might be an off the wall comment, but what is the problem with having a Duratec in the USA? They are fitted to several vehicles sold there (Mazda 6?? Ford Ranger truck uses the 2.3). The Cosworth name on the cover just means that they did the tuning. If that is a problem, get a lower spec model with a standard motor and then modify using locally sourced parts.. Not hard and the Duratec is a great engine in a 7.
I have a 220bhp Duratec in mine (a Raceline, not a Caterham sourced one.. I did it before they got around to it). I'm in New Zealand and don't have too much trouble getting parts on the rare occasion that they are needed. Most of the 7 replicas here have Toyota motors (4AGE / 3SGE) or Mazda rotary, I like mine being different!
I have a 220bhp Duratec in mine (a Raceline, not a Caterham sourced one.. I did it before they got around to it). I'm in New Zealand and don't have too much trouble getting parts on the rare occasion that they are needed. Most of the 7 replicas here have Toyota motors (4AGE / 3SGE) or Mazda rotary, I like mine being different!
The Duratec has been used in a number of vehicles available throughout the U.S.A., and is not difficult to find in either the 2.0 or 2.3 displacement here. Also, Cosworth has a facility in California which does build and sell Duratec engines, or just the parts for them if one prefers, so Cosworth engines/parts are "local" in a sense. A Honda-engined 7 might be nice to have as a novelty, but a cheaper, lighter, easier to install Duratec just makes more sense.
Or if you want something completely different.....
http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
A blown H2 would be a blast in the whippet sized Seven.
http://www.h1v8.com/page/page/1562068.htm
A blown H2 would be a blast in the whippet sized Seven.
sam919 said:
sfaulds said:
We did a K20A (Civic Type R), and yes, I have turned down offers to do more. I can't think of a single good reason why you'd choose one over a Duratec now.
What are the cost implications between both. Is a high power duratec not a dearer option than a Honda, say for 280hp, or does the difference in cost go towards other specific items used in the build that cost more than duratec items, bellhousings, mounts, bespoke stuff?Gassing Station | Caterham | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff